Predestination is misunderstood...

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brightfame52

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John146 said:
Paul was reminded them of their salvation and how it occurred and what they have coming to them now that they are in Christ.

1. hear the gospel
2. believe the gospel
3. sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise which now guarantees the future redemption of their body.
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The Gospel as word of Salvation is sent to the saved. Not the lost. How can the Gospel be the Gospel/Good news of ones Salvation when they are lost ? Duh
 
Evmur

Evmur

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Genez said:
He chose them to believe? Then, could he do that with anyone?
​
"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to ​
be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3-4​

What happened? Where did your God's sovereignty concept go to with that passage?


Actually, he chose us to be the Bride of Christ. Moses was not chosen before the foundations
of the earth to be a part of the Church.

Her chose us and predestined us as to when we should be alive on earth when we believed.
He sovereignly chose us out from all those whom He always knew would believe.

Only those chosen in Christ God predetermined would be in the body of Christ.

Ephesians 1:3-4​
​
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly ​
realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of ​
the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.​

He chose is "in Him" to be like Eve's body was "in Adam." We are the Bride of Christ!

grace and peace .............
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I don't agree with your position. But tell me this.

how are these statements in disagreement.

God chose who would be saved
[and your statement] God sovereignly chose us out from all those whom He always knew would believe.

How does it differ from Calvin?

What you have to answer is why did these believe while others who heard the same message did not? Since faith is a virtue you are claiming they were more virtuous than the other

... I don't think so.

The Arminian theology sends folks off with the idea they are better than everyone else. The world picks this vibe up too.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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maxamir said:
your view that man is responsible for his own salvation and can therefore boast in his choice contrary to the Scripture below, robs God of the glory of His salvation which belongs to Hi alone and not the choice of me and you do realise that God is a jealous God don't you?


Co 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
1Co 1:29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
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not only that but such as do get saved through this theology [for many do] start off badly with the Lord. Always believing that if anything is to be done they must be the doers of it.
 
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John146

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brightfame52 said:
The Gospel as word of Salvation is sent to the saved. Not the lost. How can the Gospel be the Gospel/Good news of ones Salvation when they are lost ? Duh
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For whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?

1. sent
2. preach
3. hear
4. believes
5. call upon Lord
6. saved

The bible is so simple.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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Genez said:
Hyper- Calvinism seems to have an affinity with fatalistic people with sub clinical masochistic tendencies.

Its a self abusive form of logic.
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It is quite something the God they have created.

There does seem to be some level of self loathing, narcissism, masochism ..... for some people who follow these teachings.
If you look at the personality profile of Augustine and/or Calvin one sees a lot of the same tendencies on message boards.

In real life I have not find it to be that way, but then they do not have the same anonymity in real life.
 
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brightfame52

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One writer wrote and I quote:
Predestination is the Decree of God, whereby{according to the counsel of His own will} He foreordained some of mankind to eternal life, and refused or passed by others for the praise of His glorious Mercy and Justice. Some are vessels of mercy, others are vessels of wrath. “Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction; and that he might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory.” Rom.9:21-23.​

http://www.supralapsarian.com/pdf/ness-arminianism.pdf 1
 
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brightfame52

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John146 said:
For whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?

1. sent
2. preach
3. hear
4. believes
5. call upon Lord
6. saved

The bible is so simple.
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The Gospel as word of Salvation is sent to the saved. Not the lost. How can the Gospel be the Gospel/Good news of ones Salvation when they are lost ? Duh
 
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John146

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brightfame52 said:
The Gospel as word of Salvation is sent to the saved. Not the lost. How can the Gospel be the Gospel/Good news of ones Salvation when they are lost ? Duh
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It is the gospel of everyone's salvation. Anyone can be saved. To you, that's not good news, but to the world, it's great news.

Btw, how can one preach the gospel to saved people, when saved people don't know they are saved? Crazy belief system you got there.
 
Thunderrr-mental

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Ànd still no Calvinists tell me what promise children and the far of are born into.

Or who the far off are
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
 
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brightfame52

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John146 said:
Good thing is, it doesn't matter what it sounds like to you. What mattes is what the bible has said.
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If its works it cant be by grace. The bible says that ! Rom 11:5


And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

And to cut to the chase and be honest with you, you cant believe in Grace and deny Election and Predestination, its not possible.
 
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John146

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brightfame52 said:
If its works it cant be by grace. The bible says that ! Rom 11:5


And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

And to cut to the chase and be honest with you, you cant believe in Grace and deny Election and Predestination, its not possible.
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Acts 16:
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, you are already saved. Now that you know that you are saved, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ...and...thou...shalt...be...saved. Salvation clearly comes after hearing and believing. Again, depart from the RCC doctrine of John Calvin and believe the bible.
 
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ForestGreenCook

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John146 said:
It is the gospel of everyone's salvation. Anyone can be saved. To you, that's not good news, but to the world, it's great news.

Btw, how can one preach the gospel to saved people, when saved people don't know they are saved? Crazy belief system you got there.
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John 10:26-30. You will always believe in eternal salvation is accomplished by your works, unless you are able to understand that save=deliver, saved=delivered, and salvation=deliverance, according to Strong's concordance.

Those that Christ died for are limited to those that his Father gave him (John 6:37-40). The remnant of the house of Israel are to preach to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, who believe in God, but are lost to the knowledge of the doctrine of Christ, and are depending upon the old works of the law.

There is a deliverance=salvation, here in time, for the lost sheep, when them come unto a knowledge of the truth (Rom 10:1-3). (1 Tim 2:4) the "all men" are all men that have been preaching false doctrines (1 Tim 1:3).
 
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John146

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ForestGreenCook said:
John 10:26-30. You will always believe in eternal salvation is accomplished by your works, unless you are able to understand that save=deliver, saved=delivered, and salvation=deliverance, according to Strong's concordance.

Those that Christ died for are limited to those that his Father gave him (John 6:37-40). The remnant of the house of Israel are to preach to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, who believe in God, but are lost to the knowledge of the doctrine of Christ, and are depending upon the old works of the law.

There is a deliverance=salvation, here in time, for the lost sheep, when them come unto a knowledge of the truth (Rom 10:1-3). (1 Tim 2:4) the "all men" are all men that have been preaching false doctrines (1 Tim 1:3).
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As long as you cannot see the separation from Israel and God's plan for that nation, and the body of Christ...the truth will be difficult for you to understand.
 
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