Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Rufus

Active member
Feb 17, 2024
989
96
28
Yes. That's what the Bible says.
Then God cannot be omniscient. God is just like finite man: He learns, acquires, accumulates and stores knowledge? But thankfully, the bible says differently.

God's Book speaks of people like you:

Ps 50:21
21 These things you have done and I kept silent;
you thought I was altogether like you.
But I will rebuke you
and accuse you to your face.

NIV

Ps 44:20-21
20 If we had forgotten the name of our God
or spread out our hands to a foreign god,
21 would not God have discovered it,
since he knows the secrets of the heart?
NIV


Ps 90:8
8 You have set our iniquities before you,
our secret sins in the light of your presence.

NIV

Ps 139:1-6
For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.

1 O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
4 Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.

5 You hem me in — behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.


Ps 147:5
5 Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

NIV

Job 21:22
22 "Can anyone teach knowledge to God,
since he judges even the highest?
NIV

Job 37:16
16 Do you know how the clouds hang poised,
those wonders of him who is perfect in knowledge?
NIV

Prov 21:30
30 There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan
that can succeed against the LORD.
NIV


John 2:24-25
24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. 25 He did not need man's testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man.
NIV

1 John 3:20b
20 For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.
NIV

Isa 40:14
14 Whom did the LORD consult to enlighten him,
and who taught him the right way?
Who was it that taught him knowledge
or showed him the path of understanding?

NIV

Jer 17:10
10 "I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve."

NIV

Isa 46:10
10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.
NIV

One final note: If God does not know all things, then how can you be sure that he will judge you righteously? He might have missed many things about your life. Or forgotten. What if you think you're a born again Christian but with God's finite, imperfect knowledge of you, he could have a very different opinion of you? Not a very trustworthy God in my book.
 

Rufus

Active member
Feb 17, 2024
989
96
28
Feel free to explain what you think thr difference between theism and deism is, if you know, and why I am a deist. I believ God is running the world tht way He wants to. He is sovereign, and is not required to run the world as calvinists insist He should. Who are you, O man, to contradict God?
So you say he's is "sovereign" and is not required to run the world that way I think, as a Calvinist? Then educate me and inform me how
you require
your sovereign ruler of the world to run the place. How do you KNOW God is running the world the way he wants to? Did he tell you this personally? Is your god immanent in this world or a mere spectator in it?
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
1,994
261
83
Do you understand the difference between theism and deism? If so, are you a deist, then? And if so, who is running this world? Anyone?
Feel free to explain what you think thr difference between theism and deism is, if you know, and why I am a deist. I believ God is running the world tht way He wants to. He is sovereign, and is not required to run the world as calvinists insist He should. Who are you, o man, to contradict God?
Then God cannot be omniscient. God is just like finite man: He learns, acquires, accumulates and stores knowledge? But thankfully, the bible says differently.

God's Book speaks of people like you:

Ps 50:21
21 These things you have done and I kept silent;
you thought I was altogether like you.
But I will rebuke you
and accuse you to your face.

NIV

Ps 44:20-21
20 If we had forgotten the name of our God
or spread out our hands to a foreign god,
21 would not God have discovered it,
since he knows the secrets of the heart?
NIV


Ps 90:8
8 You have set our iniquities before you,
our secret sins in the light of your presence.

NIV

Ps 139:1-6
For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.

1 O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
4 Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.


5 You hem me in — behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.


Ps 147:5
5 Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

NIV

Job 21:22
22 "Can anyone teach knowledge to God,
since he judges even the highest?
NIV


Job 37:16
16 Do you know how the clouds hang poised,
those wonders of him who is perfect in knowledge?
NIV


Prov 21:30
30 There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan
that can succeed against the LORD.
NIV


John 2:24-25
24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. 25 He did not need man's testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man.
NIV

1 John 3:20b
20 For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.
NIV

Isa 40:14
14 Whom did the LORD consult to enlighten him,
and who taught him the right way?
Who was it that taught him knowledge
or showed him the path of understanding?

NIV

Jer 17:10
10 "I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve."

NIV

Isa 46:10
10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.
NIV

One final note: If God does not know all things, then how can you be sure that he will judge you righteously? He might have missed many things about your life. Or forgotten. What if you think you're a born again Christian but with God's finite, imperfect knowledge of you, he could have a very different opinion of you? Not a very trustworthy God in my book.
We disagree on our definitions of omniscient. We disagree on what is real and can be known because it is real. God does not know things that are not real.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
1,994
261
83
So you say he's is "sovereign" and is not required to run the world that way I think, as a Calvinist? Then educate me and inform me how
you require
your sovereign ruler of the world to run the place. How do you KNOW God is running the world the way he wants to? Did he tell you this personally? Is your god immanent in this world or a mere spectator in it?
I don't require God to run the universe any particular way, He is God. I am not. I am in no position to demand God run the universe as I think He should.
 
Mar 8, 2024
387
35
28
Thanks for the elaboration. I will take a look at your referenced posts. I'm admittedly no longer an adherent to any system of Theology, so it's always a prove your case with Scripture and let's discuss those Scriptures slowly and in detail hopefully only bringing in proof-texts later or minimally at first.

I saw your response on another thread to @maxamir who posted to me a graphic re: the Law of Christ and New Covenant Theology, which graphic and comments it looks like we both appreciated.

Above clever pun aside, as I briefly noted, I don't readily see Rom3:11 saying clearly that no unbeliever ever seeks God. I do see God at times in history looking at men and saying there are fools everywhere who are not seeking Him. And I remain having questions about the process men go through per Romans 1.

I did see a few posts re: Lydia. I may have chimed in on one.

Thanks again.
the sad truth is that there are many seek the benefits that God gives but none who seeks God Himself.