Predestination is misunderstood...

Genez · 2024-05-16T18:31:16-0400

Its not his lawn...

There is only one lawn I am interested in....

"He makes me lie down in green pastures; he leads me beside still waters."

.........

Rufus · 2024-05-16T19:08:15-0400

1 Cor 6:1-3
6:1 If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
NIV

Cameron143 · 2024-05-16T19:15:50-0400

Genez said:

You can have that now

sawdust · 2024-05-16T19:31:41-0400

reneweddaybyday said:

I don't think I said that. As far as I'm concerned the "sons" are those who relate to those teaching that Jesus is doing the works of the Devil.

We most likely need someone well versed in Greek grammar and syntax to see whether the demons or the sons are the subject of verse 19.

Genez · 2024-05-16T20:45:30-0400

Rufus said:

Judge the world when Jesus assigns us to reign with Him for the Millennium. It won't be for their final judgment.

Right now we are having a hard time with each other because there are too much bad and misleading teachings
to be found. When Paul wrote 1 Cor 6:1-3 ? The apostles were in control. Everyone was working with good sound teaching.
Today its become a free for all with believers in too many cases.

There stands the problem.

Genez · 2024-05-16T20:49:01-0400

Cameron143 said:

Right....

And?

Take one. Its free....

........

reneweddaybyday · 2024-05-16T20:56:15-0400

sawdust said:

no, you did not state that. I should have clarified that Post 6802 was my reply to studier.

Apologies for any confusion due to my inadvertence ...

sawdust said:

in agreement.

sawdust said:

right ... it is an interesting point to ponder ... (to me at least

)
.

maxamir · 2024-05-16T22:25:59-0400

studier said:

Generally speaking, I don't see the error being not putting Him first. I don't see all disagreements in Theology being a lack in allegiance to Jesus Christ. Things were hard to understand in the first century and some things remain hard to understand. There is certainly something wrong, but I think we're hard-pressed to be saying that everyone who disagrees with us lacks allegiance to Christ or does not have the Spirit, or is some agent for the adversary.

This doesn't mean I think everything goes, which is why I mentioned checking foundations first. Paul for instance levied his harshest attack towards those who would seek to destroy one's foundation and pull them from Christ and Grace and the new era in Christ.

So, I'm not a pacifist at the end of all of this, but, in truth, I've become more settled in my faith. No matter what I know or don't know, I know Him - I understand who He is, I believe in Him and understand that Biblical Faith apart from submission is nonsense, I understand what He's done for us, and what He's doing for us as He takes us individually and corporately to a telos for all His Creation, and in faith I am submitted to Him and His plan and process. His Father is my Father and He - Jesus YHWH's Christ - is my firstborn brother and Lord and everything His Word says He is.

Men are still crazy. Entering into Christ and having His Spirit doesn't make men uncrazy in an instant - maybe for an instant - but then the process begins. It takes a lot of time and a lot of focused work to make us more and more uncrazy. There's a lot of crazy on these forums and a lot of denominational antagonism. If I were an unbeliever reading this I'd see little value in Christianity. Honestly, I've come to see little to no value in what some to many men think Christianity is.

In some ways, we're not going to completely know Him and who we are in Him until we see Him as He is. So we or I at least just keep moving forward and growing in His grace and knowledge until our individual telos or until He brings it all to its telos. Part of the task is to rest in Him while collaborating with Him at His pace for us rather than ours. It's a blend of a tension in His Word of striving and giving it our all while resting in Him. There are a lot of such tensions in the Text. Epignosis is a practical knowledge, and experiential knowledge and we may think we know things but we really don't until we do. There's Life and then Abundant Life and there is a difference between the two.

many here have a sure knowledge of God but knowledge that comes by simple mental assent is not the knowledge that the Scriptures speak of that God grants to His people. True knowledge in God is based in a sincere love to Him and His people. Seek Him and His truth in this love and He guarantees to lead you all the way.

Jer_29:13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.

maxamir · 2024-05-16T22:31:48-0400

studier said:

Agreed, 1 Cor 15:1-4 was written to those who knew who Christ is and it is foolish to talk to people about Christ without describing who He is and declaring Him to be truly God and truly Man. Therefore no one can truly know Christ unless they are granted to first know who God and man truly are.

maxamir · 2024-05-16T22:43:10-0400

studier said:

Thanks for this!

Nicely stated. As far as we've gotten to so far, we look to be aligned to a fair degree.

What's "PTS 2016" (bottom right corner)? Where did this come from?

This graphic looks to be well stated. I haven't gone through the referenced Scriptures yet. It seems to be one of the best overviews of the Law of Christ I've seen, which Law has to be a summation of the whole, rather than just a distinct separation from all that has gone before. It seems to properly take into account references like 2Tim3:16-17, which I see referenced but I'd add 3:15 to make certain we get the "wise for salvation" statement, and 1Tim1:8, which I don't see referenced, but is likely interpreted to be in the entirety of what's stated. If more of us could grasp this maybe we'd have less disagreement and more understanding of how to use OC Law properly under Grace in the NC era with the Law of its Mediator, Great High Priest, etc...

I jumped into reading and listening to some NCT actually in following up on something recommended on a forum. I had been mostly separated from outside input for many years and just focused on the Word in Spirit. I was a bit surprised that some or many of NCT conclusions were similar to or the same as some I had come to in my own studies away from all the noise and interpretations.

What do you read or who do you hear re: NCT? What I've read and listened to I'm not in full agreement with, but my agreement has been surprisingly higher than I thought it could be. I've communicated with one man in England who found his way into agreement with it to whatever degree he would say he has.

PTS is Providence Theological Seminary and they have much for you to read about NCT on their resources page below.

NCT Resources

There is currently no uniform NCT confession and not all NCT adherents including myself agree with all things below but there is a general agreement on most things.

maxamir · 2024-05-16T22:48:59-0400

Rufus said:

I would agree with most things he says and highly recommend his ministry and messages found below to anyone. If only there were more men with passion like his!

David H J Gay Ministry

sawdust · 2024-05-16T23:57:43-0400

reneweddaybyday said:

No problem, stuff happens.

Agreed, meditating on the word always finds interesting things cropping up.

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Predestination is misunderstood...

Genez

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Rufus

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Cameron143

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sawdust

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Genez

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Genez

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reneweddaybyday

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maxamir

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maxamir

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maxamir

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maxamir

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sawdust

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