ROMANS 10:9

[wattie]

Isn't the belief itself obedience? How does one obey a command to believe without being obedient at the same time one believes?

It is obeying to believe..but it's not a good work. That's what I'm saying. Good works aren't part of receiving eternal life.

 

[studier]

It is obeying to believe..but it's not a good work. That's what I'm saying. Good works aren't part of receiving eternal life.

So, setting aside concerns re: good work for the moment, just to tighten this up, "obeying to believe" means belief and obedience are contemporaneous?

 

[wattie]

So, setting aside concerns re: good work for the moment, just to tighten this up, "obeying to believe" means belief and obedience are contemporaneous?

Well the will of the Father is to firstly believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. So in this sense..yes.

But continuous obedience to commands isn't receiving eternal life. Since we continuously don't keep up with them.

Justification.. believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and receive eternal life.

Sanctification.. following Jesus after salvation. Not hooked onto salvation.

John 3:16, 5:24, 10:28, compared with Romans 9 and 10

 

[Blade]

Every group in Christianity are confessing what is written in Romans 10:9.
Everybody is saying Jesus is Lord.
They believe that Jesus raised from the dead.

Does it mean, all denominations in Christianity shall be saved?

Did He not say “For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life."

 

[studier]

Well the will of the Father is to firstly believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. So in this sense..yes.

So, with this established, since belief is not a work [of man] then neither would obedience [to God's command to believe] be a work. This seems simple.

But continuous obedience to commands isn't receiving eternal life. Since we continuously don't keep up with them.

Once initially received by contemporaneous faith and obedience, the Christian life becomes one of abiding in faith and obedience. Yes, we fail, so "continuous" may not be the best word to describe "abiding/remaining" or "enduring", but I would probably agree that the word, "continue" could be used.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I don't mind at all. Thanks for your work. I'm going to keep these different sections of Scripture separate so I can work on them separately. So, I'll remain in Romans with this post.



If you prefer "delivered" instead of "saved", they can be synonymous. I prefer to remain with "save" as in "salvation", but we can work with either as it looks like you do also. One of the things that becomes important with this word is what the author is saying being saved pertains to - saved from what?

I'd also prefer to remain with the section of Scripture we're looking at and not add things like "election" ("those God gave to Jesus...") which is another discussion.



Again, focusing not on the promise at this time, but on "saved from their ignorance":

• I can see how you get this from the context in Romans 10:1-3 but I don't see it as Paul's focus on being saved. In other words, their ignorance is keeping them from being saved, but saved from what?
• I see the main, overall context of being saved in Romans as what Paul says in Romans 5:9 = being saved from God's wrath and God's wrath being equated with God's judgment (Romans 2:5). Paul begins speaking of God's wrath against mens' ungodliness, unrighteousness and suppression of truth in Romans 1:18.
• Paul is still bringing up God's wrath in Romans 9:22 as he heads into Romans 10.
• I see Pauls' concern for his countrymen being their being saved from God's wrath and judgment which their ignorance of His righteousness is taking them to as they remain ignorantly insubordinate to God's righteousness - Jesus Christ (Romans 10:3)

Mostly answered above.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart " (that is, the word of faith which we preach):

• Paul quotes Deut30:14 and says it applies to the "word of faith" which he and others proclaim.
• The word of faith is the Good News of Jesus Christ
• I see Deut30:14 as Moses meaning if you have understanding of something in your heart, then you can also speak it. Moses goes on in Deut30 to also say you can do it.
• So, Paul proclaims the Good News of Jesus Christ so mean can hear it, understand it, believe it, speak it, do it.

10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

• The word/message/news of faith [in Jesus Christ] that Paul proclaims saves [from God's wrath and judgment]:
  • When men believe and confess that Jesus is the LORD whom God resurrected

10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

• "for" means Paul is explaining what he just said:
  • With the heart men believe God resurrected LORD Jesus
    • This results in righteousness
  • With the mouth men confess LORD Jesus
    • This results in salvation [from God's wrath and judgment against unrighteousness, ungodliness, etc..]

The reason Paul ordered these statements as he did is because they are in chiastic parallelism and they all go together:

10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus

and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead,​

you will be saved [from God's wrath/judgment]].​

10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness​

and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation [from God's wrath/judgment]

That's my brief take. But there is much here and in close context to speak about re: Biblical Faith among other things.

Where am I "teach[ing] eternal deliverance by good works" as you said?

It is all in whether you are applying your wording of saved to eternally delivered, or to a deliverance that the eternally delivered receive, as they sojourn here on earth by doing good works.

There is a one time eternal deliverance that was accomplished by Christ's death on the cross, for those that his Father gave him (John 6:37-39) and there are many deliverance's that those same people receive, here in earth, by doing good works.

There is a deliverance, not of works, that is eternal, and there is a deliverance that is received by those that have the promise of an eternal inheritance as they live here on earth, which is gained by their good works.

If you are applying all of the salvation scriptures to eternal deliverance, they will tend to teach eternal deliverance is accomplished by ones good works, which is a false doctrine.

If you are confused about my explanation, let me know, and I will try to furnish you with more scriptures.

 

[wattie]

So, with this established, since belief is not a work [of man] then neither would obedience [to God's command to believe] be a work. This seems simple.




Once initially received by contemporaneous faith and obedience, the Christian life becomes one of abiding in faith and obedience. Yes, we fail, so "continuous" may not be the best word to describe "abiding/remaining" or "enduring", but I would probably agree that the word, "continue" could be used.

There are many bible figures who did not abide or endure at times...but being converted were still kept by the power of God through the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit. So faithfulness isn't a guarantee for a person who has believed.