Quote:
Originally Posted by zone
who is Paul referring to?
the Israelites of HIS DAY.
he was one of them, wasn't he?
didn't he shake his raiment and go to the gentiles? but NOPE. we want to IGNORE THAT PART.
and why does he say they were not coming to Christ (the righteousness of God we take hold of by Faith)? because they were : going about to establish their own righteousness
and what was his prayer?
that they would in the future dwell and rule from jerusalem?
or that they would submit themselves to the Righteousness of God, the Righteousness He imputes to the one who beleives in Christ.
many of them did, Red....the first disciples were Israelites. you of all people know The New Covenant is for Spiritual Israel (jew and gentile). at least i thought you did.
and many throughout the ages have become christians.
i just don't get why this is so hard to accept. brainwashing comes to mind.
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Please, don't be like that, I am asking you a simple question. It seems to me that Paul was referring to all of Israel, which included those presently and also those that would still be in unbelief after he was gone. His prayer was that thy would be saved. A remnant would believe but his prayer was for all of Israel. He shakes his raiment and went to the Gentiles but he was called by God to do that from the beginning (Acts 2:15, Eph 3:1-8) which also included kings and the children of Israel. He had a zeal for his own people and at the end of his ministry he insisted to go to Jerusalem, where he was later put under house arrest.
God poured out His Spirit at Pentecost and many of the Jews believed as also the Gentiles. This began the inception of the church which was made of both Jew and Gentile and it took the word and the Spirit through the finished work of the cross to make it happen. Both have become one in Christ and it is still applicable today in the church and body of Christ. The remnant of the Jews that have been called are in the church and I am sure they have a zeal for their own people as Paul did.
Zone, what is the NT covenant that the church (or spiritual Israel) has been given that was made active through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Heb 9:15-26)? Briefly and in simplicity explain that covenant (testament) in contrast with the old covenant that was done away with in Christ as you understand it (2Cor 3:1-14). If you will, for my sake, explain why those who are Jews by birth (who are in unbelief) are not really Israel? If they are not Israel who do these people represent as a people? Did they come from Isaac or from some other lineage? If they are of Isaac are they not children of the promise that was given to Abraham? All the families of the earth are blessed through Abraham which would include those of Ishmael, but those of the promise must come through Isaac, who was born to Sara in her old age.
Please keep it simple and address what I am inquiring of you, if you would.
Thanks,
Redster