ROMANS 6

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ASSIYAH

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ROMANS 6

16 Don't you know that if you present yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, then, of the one whom you are obeying, you are slaves -

whether of sin, which leads to death,

or of obedience, which leads to being made righteous?

Obedience to what???

17 By God's grace, you, who were once slaves to sin, obeyed from your heart the pattern of teaching to which you were exposed;

Slaves to sin???

What is sin???

18 and after you had been set free from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness.

So, we were set free from sin, and sin leads to death.

Being set free from sin and death, we now are to become enslaved to righteousness

What is sin???

What is obedience/righteousness???

19 (I am using popular language because your human nature is so weak.) For just as you used to offer your various parts as slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led to more lawlessness; so now offer your various parts as slaves to righteousness, which leads to being made holy, set apart for God.

If impurity and lawlessness, lead to sin and death.

What is opposite of impurity/Lawlessness/sin/death???

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in relationship to righteousness;

If we were slaves of sin/impurity/Lawlessness/death, and in this we were free from a life of obedience/righteouness; and we are now turning the tables.

What is the opposite of sin/impurity/Lawlessness/death???

21 what benefit did you derive from the things of which you are now ashamed? (sin/impurity/Lawlessness/death) The end result of those things was death.

22 However, now, freed from sin and enslaved to God, you do get the benefit - it consists in

being made holy,

set apart for God,

and its end result is eternal life.

23 For what one earns from sin is death; but eternal life is what one receives as a free gift from God, in union with the Messiah Yeshua, our Lord.

Chapter 7

1 Surely you know, brothers - for I am speaking to those who understand Torah - that the Torah has authority over a person only so long as he lives?

2 For example, a married woman is bound by Torah to her husband while he is alive; but if the husband dies, she is released from the part of the Torah that deals with husbands.

What does this mean???

3 Therefore, while the husband is alive, she will be called an adulteress if she marries another man; but if the husband dies, she is free from that part of the Torah; so that if she marries another man, she is not an adulteress.

What is Paul saying here???

4 Thus, my brothers, you have been made dead with regard to the Torah through the Messiah's body, so that you may belong to someone else, namely, the one who has been raised from the dead, in order for us to bear fruit for God.

Have we been made dead with regards to the Torah/Teachings/Comandments of God???

Or, have we been made dead/freed from the part of Torah dealing with sin and death, or in other words, set free from the Torah/Law of sin and death???

5 For when we were living according to our old nature, (What was the old nature) the passions connected with sins worked through the Torah in our various parts, with the result that we bore fruit for death.

What is the fruit that leads death???

impurity....

Lawlessness....

sin....

death....

6 But now we have been released from this aspect of the Torah, because we have died to that which had us in its clutches, (What had us in its clutches???) so that we are serving in the new way provided by the Spirit and not in the old way of outwardly following the letter of the law.

Why does Paul say not in the old way of outwardly following the letter of the Law???

7 Therefore, what are we to say? That the Torah is sinful? Heaven forbid! Rather, the function of the Torah was that without it, I would not have known what sin is. ....

(So without Torah we can not know what sin is.)

7.... For example, I would not have become conscious of what greed is if the Torah had not said, "Thou shalt not covet."

If we are to turn from sin to righteousness, and Torah tells us what sin is and what being holy,
set apart and righteous is;

What are we to turn to if not the Torah through Yeshua our Messiah???


8 Sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, worked in me all kinds of evil desires - for apart from Torah, sin is dead.

If God would have never said "Do" and "Do not" there would have been no sin.

But He did say.

9 I was once alive outside the framework of Torah. But when the commandment really encountered me, sin sprang to life,

Why does sin spring to life through the Comand???

Because we dont want to obey.

10 and I died. The commandment that was intended to bring me life was found to be bringing me death!

The Commandments/Torah was intended to bring us life???

11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me; and through the commandment, sin killed me.

12 So the Torah is holy; that is, the commandment is holy, just and good.

13 Then did something good become for me the source of death? Heaven forbid! Rather, it was sin working death in me through something good, so that sin might be clearly exposed as sin, so that sin through the commandment might come to be experienced as sinful beyond measure.

So the Torah is not a source of death???

What would the opposite of a source of death be???

A source of life???

14 For we know that the Torah is of the Spirit; but as for me, I am bound to the old nature, sold to sin as a slave.

So why does Paul say not in the old way of outwardly following the letter of the Law???

And did he say the Torah is spiritual???

15 I don't understand my own behavior - I don't do what I want to do; instead, I do the very thing I hate!

16 Now if I am doing what I don't want to do, I am agreeing that the Torah is good.

If the Torah is good why not try and conform to that which leads to being made holy, and
set apart???

ROMANS 6:22 "However, now, freed from sin and enslaved to God, you do get the benefit - it consists in

being made holy,

set apart for God,

and its end result is eternal life.

Paul says in verse 22 "I delight in the Torah of Elohim according to the inward man."

 
A

ASSIYAH

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#2
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FY35YbD3ps[/video]
 
A

ASSIYAH

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#3
Romans 7

22 For in my inner self I completely agree with God's Torah;

23 but in my various parts, I see a different "torah," one that battles with the Torah in my mind and makes me a prisoner of sin's "torah," which is operating in my various parts.

Here, we can see that there are two different Torahs.

1.) A Torah of sin and death

2.) A Torah of set-apartness and righteousness which leads to life.

And these two are at war with each other.

24 What a miserable creature I am! Who will rescue me from this body bound for death?

25 Thanks be to God [, he will]! - through Yeshua the Messiah, our Lord! To sum up: with my mind, I am a slave of God's Torah; (KJV, With my mind I myself serve the Law of God;) but with my old nature, I am a slave of sin's "Torah."

We want to keep Torah, but our flesh is weak.

But, the Spirit of Messiah helps us to over come the weakness of our flesh.

Romans 8

1 Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua.

2 Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit, which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the "Torah" of sin and death.

3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature,

Torah written on stone tabs was weak because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate.

This is why God said, " 'This is the covenant which I will make with them after those days,' says ADONAI: 'I will put my Torah on their hearts, and write it on their minds (Hebrews 10:16)

4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants.

And we know, .... "that the Torah is of the Spirit;" Romans 7:14

5 For those who identify with their old nature set their minds on the things of the old nature, but those who identify with the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

6 Having one's mind controlled by the old nature is death, but having one's mind controlled by the Spirit is life and shalom.

7 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God's Torah - indeed, it cannot.

8 Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God.
 
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#4
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOiGBpjnyyw[/video]
 
A

ASSIYAH

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#5
17 "Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete.

18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until everything that must happen has happened.

19 So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 5)

15 "If you love me, you will keep my commands; 16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselor like me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever. (John 14)

21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me, and the one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him." (John 14)

23 Yeshua answered him, "If someone loves me, he will keep my word; and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. (John 14)
 
Dec 19, 2009
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17 "Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete.

18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until everything that must happen has happened.

19 So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 5)

15 "If you love me, you will keep my commands; 16 and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforting Counselor like me, the Spirit of Truth, to be with you forever. (John 14)

21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me, and the one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him." (John 14)

23 Yeshua answered him, "If someone loves me, he will keep my word; and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. (John 14)
Paul spoke of us being under grace, not law. He spoke of us followingf after the Holy Spirit, and then we were not under law.
He said that by faith we would uphold the law.
So Biblically those not living under law, better uphold the law. It is all about love for our Heavenly Father. If we have that we uphold the laws He requires. To believe in following the law and focusing on it, is not to have a truly loving relationship with our Father in Heaven. How i wish everyone could see this. Love fulfills the law
 
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ASSIYAH

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#7
Paul spoke of us being under grace, not law. He spoke of us followingf after the Holy Spirit, and then we were not under law.
He said that by faith we would uphold the law.
So Biblically those not living under law, better uphold the law. It is all about love for our Heavenly Father. If we have that we uphold the laws He requires. To believe in following the law and focusing on it, is not to have a truly loving relationship with our Father in Heaven. How i wish everyone could see this. Love fulfills the law
Quite the opposite.

We keep the Commandments of God Most High, to show Him we love Him.

Did you read this thread, or did you skip it; and just comment on the subject?

We are under the Grace of God, But we have always been under Gods Grace.

It is by His Grace that we wake up every day, and so on and so on.

If you didn't read my thread please read it.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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Quite the opposite.

We keep the Commandments of God Most High, to show Him we love Him.

Did you read this thread, or did you skip it; and just comment on the subject?

We are under the Grace of God, But we have always been under Gods Grace.

It is by His Grace that we wake up every day, and so on and so on.

If you didn't read my thread please read it.
Hi

I have not read all of your thread and videos I do admit. But even if I did it would not change my replies. I could quote you much NT scripture, but there would be no point. The law was put in charge to lead us to Christ. I am not saying you shouldn't keep law if that is what you believe, but I know I am saved through grace, by faith. God wants a loving, sincere heart, one that will submit to him and serve him. That is what He requires.
Now some people will follow parts of the law out of obligation to those laws without really loving God. Which type of person do you think He will look mopst favourably on?

And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
 
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ASSIYAH

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#9
Hi

I have not read all of your thread and videos I do admit. But even if I did it would not change my replies. I could quote you much NT scripture, but there would be no point. The law was put in charge to lead us to Christ. I am not saying you shouldn't keep law if that is what you believe, but I know I am saved through grace, by faith. God wants a loving, sincere heart, one that will submit to him and serve him. That is what He requires.
Now some people will follow parts of the law out of obligation to those laws without really loving God. Which type of person do you think He will look mopst favourably on?

And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

"God wants a loving, sincere heart, one that will submit to him and serve him. That is what He requires." ???

You say, "God wants a loving, sincere heart, one that will submit to Him and serve Him"

You say, "That is what He requires."

Do you even see what you are saying???

15 "If you love me, you will keep my commands; (John 14)

21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me, (John 14)

23 Yeshua answered him, "If someone loves me, he will keep my word; (John 14)

1 Then Yeshua addressed the crowds and his talmidim:

2 "The Torah-teachers and the P'rushim," he said, "sit in the seat of Moshe.

What does this mean, "The Torah-teachers, sit in the seat of Moshe?

To sit in the seat of someone means, the right to sit as a member [a seat on the council], the center or the chief location [the seat of government].

In other words, the Torah-teachers according to Messiah, have the same authority as Moshe.

Why???

Because, Moshe was given the position of teaching Torah to the people.

So what is He saying???

3 So whatever they tell you, take care to do it. (Matt. 23)

Who are, "they"?

"They", are those who teach Torah after the manner of Moshe

Messiah is telling us to keep Torah.

15 "If you love me, you will keep my commands; (John 14)
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#10
"God wants a loving, sincere heart, one that will submit to him and serve him. That is what He requires."???

You say, "God wants a loving, sincere heart, one that will submit to Him and serve Him"

You say, "That is what He requires."

Do you even see what you are saying???

15 "If you love me, you will keep my commands; (John 14)

21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me, (John 14)

23 Yeshua answered him, "If someone loves me, he will keep my word; (John 14)

1 Then Yeshua addressed the crowds and his talmidim:

2 "The Torah-teachers and the P'rushim," he said, "sit in the seat of Moshe.

What does this mean, "The Torah-teachers, sit in the seat of Moshe?

To sit in the seat of someone means, the right to sit as a member [a seat on the council], the center or the chief location [the seat of government].

In other words, the Torah-teachers according to Messiah, have the same authority as Moshe.

Why???

Because, Moshe was given the position of teaching Torah to the people.

So what is He saying???

3 So whatever they tell you, take care to do it. (Matt. 23)

Who are, "they"?

"They", are those who teach Torah after the manner of Moshe

Messiah is telling us to keep Torah.

15 "If you love me, you will keep my commands; (John 14)
You will never understand what I mean, I know that. I love my Father in Heaven. His laws are now written on my heart. But not ten individual commandments. When something is written on our heart it means we want to live as God wants us to live, because we love him. If I have an impure thought I don't think of a commandment, I am grieved because I know it is not how my Heavenly Father would want me to think.
I love my Mother. When I go to visit her, I do not have to think of any commandments because I love her. And I love my Father in Heaven.
And I know he loves me. And because I know that I am secure with Him. If I had to focus on law to me it would mean I was not following the first Commandment. But you will never understand that.
If I truly believed my Christianity hinged on obediance to law, I would give up now, but I know it doesn't.
I do not mean you personally I am sure you are sincere, but I am reminded of Paul's words.
Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from law, but by faith in the Son of God who died for me.

God Bless You
 
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ASSIYAH

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#11
You will never understand what I mean, I know that. I love my Father in Heaven. His laws are now written on my heart. But not ten individual commandments. When something is written on our heart it means we want to live as God wants us to live, because we love him. If I have an impure thought I don't think of a commandment, I am grieved because I know it is not how my Heavenly Father would want me to think.
I love my Mother. When I go to visit her, I do not have to think of any commandments because I love her. And I love my Father in Heaven.
And I know he loves me. And because I know that I am secure with Him. If I had to focus on law to me it would mean I was not following the first Commandment. But you will never understand that.
If I truly believed my Christianity hinged on obediance to law, I would give up now, but I know it doesn't.
I do not mean you personally I am sure you are sincere, but I am reminded of Paul's words.
Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from law, but by faith in the Son of God who died for me.

God Bless You
Friend,

We are not saying two different things conserning righteousness or salvation.

I know that righteousness and salvation are the free gift of God.

It can not be earned by my works.

I am saved through Yeshua.

I am made righteous through Yeshua, and only through Yeshua.

There is One Name given to man through which we are saved, Yeshua/Jesus.

Peace/shalom.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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Friend,

We are not saying two different things conserning righteousness or salvation.

I know that righteousness and salvation are the free gift of God.

It can not be earned by my works.

I am saved through Yeshua.

I am made righteous through Yeshua, and only through Yeshua.

There is One Name given to man through which we are saved, Yeshua/Jesus.

Peace/shalom.
Hi
I really appreciate the way you put your answer. I have discussed with someone else of Jewish descent. They actually believe in a righteousness of obediance to law. I don't believe you do. So we both agree on what is required for salvation.
I am genuinely trying here to see if we cannot reach at least partial compromise. I am sure you love God, but I can asure you I do to.I can well understand that people of Jewish descent(and others) have the actual written law far more imprinted on their hearts than I may. I completely agree with you God's good laws should be upheld. I could never disagree with that. Surely what matters is that they are upheld with God's strength to the best of our human ability.
I am not asking you to agree with me, but the way I see it is that God's good laws are now written on my hearHeb10:16
But I do not see it as individual commandments written on my heart. I sse it that from my heart I want to live as God wants me to. If I do something that offends God it hurts me deeply, but I do not need to think of a commandment to feel the hurt.
Really we both feel God's good laws should be upheld. To me Paul showed us the way to do it. But I do not wish to get into a scrpture writing long debate with you lol. Is it not possible to see, that as we both agree as to what salvation depends on, and we both agree that God's good laws should be upheld, is it not possible that God will allow us, who all feel we follow the right way to get their, our individual road with Him helping us. I'm sure Jesus will go with us whichever road of understanding we take. I'm quite sure we will meet in Heaven you know.
God Bless
 

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#13
We who were dead in sin have been made to be the righteousness of God without the law, by the Spirit.
 

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Here is the trouble with rigid observance of the law and the Sabbath. Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath. The Jews were outraged with Him. How could He do such a thing? His answer to them was, "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." Righteous judgment comes only by the Spirit. How can we know righteousness without the Spirit? Will the law instruct us in righteousness? Will it not instead instruct us in our inequity? Will it not instead teach us of our lack of righteousness? If righteousness was by the law, then Jesus died in vain!
 
A

ASSIYAH

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#15
Here is the trouble
You say,

"Here is the trouble with rigid observance of the law and the Sabbath."

Yeshua teaches us to keep Torah/The Commandments of God.

There is not one scripture that teaches other otherwise.

16 The people of Isra'el are to keep the Shabbat, to observe Shabbat through all their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the people of Isra'el forever; for in six days ADONAI made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and rested.'" (Exodus 31:16,17)

23 "Every month on Rosh-Hodesh (from one new moon to another) and every week on Shabbat (and from one shabbat to another), everyone living will come to worship in my presence," says ADONAI. (Isaiah 66:23)

8 For the Son of Man is Lord of Shabbat!"

Yeshua said He is Lord of the Sabbath. So shabbat is all about Him. It is His day.

9 Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue.

On Shabbat He was going to the synagogue to teach.

10 A man there had a shriveled hand. Looking for a reason to accuse him/Yeshua of something, they asked him, "Is healing permitted on Shabbat?" 11 But he answered, "If you have a sheep that falls in a pit on Shabbat, which of you won't take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore, what is permitted on Shabbat is to do good." Then to the man he said, "Hold out your hand." As he held it out, it 13 became restored, as sound as the other one. (Matthew 12)

By Yeshua saying, "what is permitted on Shabbat is to do good." He is validating that Shabbat is good and not only that but, this is what is permitted for us to do. Observe Shabbat and do good in it.

Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath. The Jews were outraged with Him. How could He do such a thing?

It was never agianst the Torah of God to do good on Shabbat.

His answer to them was, "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

His answer was, "Therefore, what is permitted on Shabbat is to do good."

Righteous judgment comes only by the Spirit. How can we know righteousness without the Spirit?

Paul said, "we know that the Torah is of the Spirit" (Romans 7:14)

3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate,

God did by sending his own Son

as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature,

4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants. (Romans 8)

7 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God's Torah - indeed, it cannot. 8 Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God. 9 But you, you do not identify with your old nature but with the Spirit - provided the Spirit of God is living inside you (Romans 8)

Will the law instruct us in righteousness?

Yes!

Will it not instead instruct us in our inequity?

NO, it does NOT instruct us in inequity, but; it does tells us what sin is.

Will it not instead teach us of our lack of righteousness? If righteousness was by the law, then Jesus died in vain!

Righteousness comes through Yeshua alone, but Torah is the standard of righteousness given by God to man.
 
I

Israel

Guest
#16
You say,

"Here is the trouble with rigid observance of the law and the Sabbath."

Yeshua teaches us to keep Torah/The Commandments of God.

There is not one scripture that teaches other otherwise.

16 The people of Isra'el are to keep the Shabbat, to observe Shabbat through all their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the people of Isra'el forever; for in six days ADONAI made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and rested.'" (Exodus 31:16,17)

23 "Every month on Rosh-Hodesh (from one new moon to another) and every week on Shabbat (and from one shabbat to another), everyone living will come to worship in my presence," says ADONAI. (Isaiah 66:23)

8 For the Son of Man is Lord of Shabbat!"

Yeshua said He is Lord of the Sabbath. So shabbat is all about Him. It is His day.

9 Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue.

On Shabbat He was going to the synagogue to teach.

10 A man there had a shriveled hand. Looking for a reason to accuse him/Yeshua of something, they asked him, "Is healing permitted on Shabbat?" 11 But he answered, "If you have a sheep that falls in a pit on Shabbat, which of you won't take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore, what is permitted on Shabbat is to do good." Then to the man he said, "Hold out your hand." As he held it out, it 13 became restored, as sound as the other one. (Matthew 12)

By Yeshua saying, "what is permitted on Shabbat is to do good." He is validating that Shabbat is good and not only that but, this is what is permitted for us to do. Observe Shabbat and do good in it.

Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath. The Jews were outraged with Him. How could He do such a thing?

It was never agianst the Torah of God to do good on Shabbat.

His answer to them was, "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

His answer was, "Therefore, what is permitted on Shabbat is to do good."

Righteous judgment comes only by the Spirit. How can we know righteousness without the Spirit?

Paul said, "we know that the Torah is of the Spirit" (Romans 7:14)

3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate,

God did by sending his own Son

as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature,

4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants. (Romans 8)

7 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God's Torah - indeed, it cannot. 8 Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God. 9 But you, you do not identify with your old nature but with the Spirit - provided the Spirit of God is living inside you (Romans 8)

Will the law instruct us in righteousness?

Yes!

Will it not instead instruct us in our inequity?

NO, it does NOT instruct us in inequity, but; it does tells us what sin is.

Will it not instead teach us of our lack of righteousness? If righteousness was by the law, then Jesus died in vain!

Righteousness comes through Yeshua alone, but Torah is the standard of righteousness given by God to man.

So how do we obey the Sabbath? Again, I ask if a man worships the true God on a sunday, is he violating God's law of the Sabbath? If it is lawful to good on the seventh day of the week, shouldn't it also be lawful to praise God on any other day?
 

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Dec 22, 2009
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#17
You know, the torah is only a very dark shadow of the righteousness of God. In fact, if one kept the torah completely, and had not Jesus, they would not be pleasing to God. The torah may have been a standard of righteousness given to Israel, but it is not our standard of righteousness, in any way. Our standard of righteousness is the love of God as seen in the sacrifice of Christ Jesus for us. That standard of righteousness is so far above and beyond the torah as to not even be in the same league. If the torah is the best we can do in our righteousness, then we are in real trouble with our God. Jesus said that we have heard it said to love our neighbor, and hate our enemy, but He said to love our enemy. And He gave many more examples of His righteousness compared to the righteousness of the torah. But I sense that you will not be convinced, so I will not address this issue with you any more.

In His peace,
 
A

ASSIYAH

Guest
#18
So how do we obey the Sabbath? Again, I ask if a man worships the true God on a sunday, is he violating God's law of the Sabbath? If it is lawful to good on the seventh day of the week, shouldn't it also be lawful to praise God on any other day?
I'll answer your question when you answer mine.

What does it mean to be call of men "Rabbi, Rabbi"???
 
I

Israel

Guest
#19
I'll answer your question when you answer mine.

What does it mean to be call of men "Rabbi, Rabbi"???


From my understanding the word " Rabbi" is a title used by the Jews to address their teachers (and also honour them when not addressing them).

It could also mean that they are Rabbanites - A Jewish sect founded in the second century BCE that believes a second Torah was given orally on Mt. Sinai and that the Rabbis are the only legitimate interpreters of God's Law. Also called the Pharisees; not all Jews are Rabbanite but all Rabbis are.

I'm not an expert on the word. Nor am I anyone's teacher. You might know more about this word than me, so I would be glad to hear your view on it.
 
A

ASSIYAH

Guest
#20
You say,

"You know, the torah is only a very dark shadow of the righteousness of God."

Show me one scripture that says, "Torah is only a vary dark shadow".

You cant its not there.

In fact, if one kept the torah completely, and had not Jesus, they would not be pleasing to God.

This is true. In fact it is only through Yeshua, that we are able to keep Torah in a manner that is pleasing to God.

3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son

4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants.

7 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God's Torah - indeed, it cannot. (Romans 8)

14 For we know that the Torah is of the Spirit; (Romans 7)

KJV: 14 For we know that the law is spiritual (Romans 7)

The torah may have been a standard of righteousness given to Israel, but it is not our standard of righteousness, in any way.

It is the only stander of righteousness, given in the Scripture.

Faith, is a Commandment you know.

Our standard of righteousness is the love of God as seen in the sacrifice of Christ Jesus for us.

Love is also a Commandment.

That standard of righteousness is so far above and beyond the torah as to not even be in the same league.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made . 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (John 1)

In Him was Life:

50 In my distress my comfort is this: that your promise gives me life. 51 Though the arrogant scorn me completely, I have not turned away from your Torah. (Psalm 119)

174 I long for your deliverance, ADONAI; and your Torah is my delight. 175 Let me live, and I will praise you; let your rulings help me. (Psalm 119)

The light of men:

105 Your word is a lamp for my foot and light on my path. 106 I have sworn an oath and confirmed it, that I will observe your righteous rulings. (Psalm 119)

Yeshua is the Living Torah and in Him is Life.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1)

151 You are close by, ADONAI; and all your mitzvot are truth. 152 Long ago I learned from your instruction that you established it forever.

Yeshua is: Life, Light, and Truth.

The Torah is: Life, Light, and Truth.

They are One and the same.

If the torah is the best we can do in our righteousness, then we are in real trouble with our God.

I dont think Messiah will agree with you on that one.

He keep Torah, and He did it perfectly. It is Who He is.

Jesus said that we have heard it said to love our neighbor, and hate our enemy, but He said to love our enemy. And He gave many more examples of His righteousness compared to the righteousness of the torah. But I sense that you will not be convinced, so I will not address this issue with you any more.
 
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