Question about Death...

[Elijah19]

This is kind of a difficult question for me to ask, since I don't fully get it myself, but I'm hoping that some of you will be able to help me out here. Please provide Bible verses if possible. Your feedback is greatly appreciated.OK. So we as Christians believe that if we are saved because of Jesus' cleansing blood, we will go to heaven when we die. I have no doubt about this whatsoever. None. I'm in with Jesus, and I know where I'm inevitably bound! This is not a problem for me at all. My issue is another thing concerning the subject of life after death entirely.I've recently been reading up on a number of different Christian denominations' takes on what happens to the Soul upon death. Some say that it is like a short sleep, the blink of an eye, and we wake up on judgement day to meet our Lord in the air. Others say that right when we die, our Soul travels to it's destination (as some near death experiences will carry on about), either to heaven or to hell. Still a third opinion (which I found to be utterly HORRIFYING!!!) stated that we don't have immortal souls at all, and that when Jesus comes back, our bodies will be raised up, rigged to be all holy and immortal, and live in a heaven made on earth! Yet another opinion (I believe this is the Catholic take) states that we go to Purgatory for final cleansing, then Heaven.OK, so, I've got eyebrows raised on some of these. But if you have Bible evidence to answer this... which is the right one? I don't like the idea of death being a deep sleep where I have to wait for judgement day. If that's true, than my soul might be claustrophobicly stuck in my body, dormant and alone until God-knows-when, literally!If I just go straight to heaven when I die, than what will happen when as the Bible says "heaven and earth will fade" (Matt. 24:35). Where will I go when Heaven fades? I guess God will make "a new Heaven and a new Earth," like it says in Revelations 21:1.But seriously, though... what the heck?If the third opinion is true (which I know it isn't), and we actually don't have immortal souls... that what the heck did Jesus die for on the Cross? What did he die to redeem, our perishable flesh? "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God," as it says in 1 Cor. 15:50.On the subject of the fourth opinion (Purgatory), I may not be Catholic, but I have great respect for my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ. I love you all! Look, while the subject of Purgatory is an interesting one, I must politely say that the idea is quite simply nowhere in the Bible. It isn't even implied... not even indirectly. I'm not saying that I definitely know it isn't out there, but I'm about 98% certain that it's just gonna be Heaven and Hell, nothing else. We don't really have room in Christianity for works based Salvation like Purgatory...OK, but seriously though... what actually happens to our Souls when we die as Christians? Do we just go straight to heaven? Do we wait dormant in our bodies/dust/nothingness until judgement day (SCARY Claustrophobic!!!)? Do we just rise again when Jesus returns, not really having possessed immortal souls at all (definitely not this one, right)? Or do we go to Purgatory for final purification (not likely in the least bit)?Does something else happen instead that I missed? What will happen to me when I die... exactly?

 

[Brainfreeze]

I don't think time and space is the same in different dimensions, I have spoke to a few people that have passed and came back, to tell their testimony. I don't think your spirit sleeps though.

 

[crossnote]

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
(2Co 5:8)

 

[Brainfreeze]

Revelations 20:6
6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelations 2:11

11. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Kjv Revelations 21:7

7. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

did he say all? I hear outer-space...is still growing, Where do you think God dwells now? With His angels and people in heaven.


Ecclesiastes 12:7

7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[JesusLives]

Thank you for asking and I will do my best to answer your question. I have a study already marked in my Bible as a friend had questions and I mapped out a study for her to look through my amplified Zondervan Bible and read for herself. I will be happy to share this with you.

Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of You; in Sheol (the place of the dead) who will give You thanks?

I believe that in death we are unaware as in sleeping - When you go to bed at night you are unaware of what goes on around you until you wake up the next morning and then pick up where you left off the day before.

Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the Lord neither any who go down into silence.

If the dead are in heaven how can they be there and not praise the Lord? If I was in heaven Praising God would be exactly what I would be doing.

Ecclesiastes 9: 5&6 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing and have no more reward (here) for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love and their hatred and their envy have already perished; neither have they any more a share in anything that is done under the sun.

This sound pretty self explaining to me.

Isaiah 38:18 For Sheol (the place of the dead) cannot confess and reach out a hand to You, death cannot praise and rejoice in You; they who go down in the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness (to Your promises; their probation is at an end, their destiny is sealed).

In death cannot confess and reach out to God.

John 11: 11-14 He said these things, and then added, Our friend Lazarus is at rest and sleeping; but I am going there that I may awaken him out of his sleep. 12 The disciples answered, Lord if he is sleeping, he will recover. 13 However, Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He referred to falling into a refreshing and natural sleep. 14 So then Jesus told them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Again sleeping is not aware. I don't know about you but if I had died and gone to heaven and Jesus brought me back I might have a gripe to express as in - Lord how could you remove me from heaven and bring me back down to this living hell? Lazarus never said anything like that. Just a thought.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, Do not cling to Me (do not hold Me), for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to My brethren and tell them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.

If we die and go to heaven immediately where was Jesus spirit those three days while He was in the grave? He Himself said He had not yet ascended to the Father.

1 Corinthians 11:30 That is the reason many of you are weak and sickly, and quite enough of you have fallen into the sleep of death.

Death described as sleep.

There are also other times Jesus referred to death as a sleep. I hope that this is a help to you in your search for the truth of God's word. Blessings to you in your walk with Jesus. Darlene/JesusLives

 

[Brainfreeze]

He's speaking of consciousness ... And the Holy Ghost in a lot of that Jesuslives, those that are living amongst those dead "inside".
Those that see to those that can't.

Like when Jesus said in Mathew 23:27
…26"You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also. 27"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. 28"So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.…

 

[Sola_Scriptura]

Elijah19, you have asked a question that, unfortunately, most do not understand. You will hear a range of different answers to that question, all coming from the Bible (usually only a few verses). If you truly desire to know that answer, and I believe you do based on your post, please prayerfully study the information in the links provided below. This is not my opinion, but simply what the Bible says. Gather every text in the Scripture on the subject and the answer will be seen. May the LORD bless you with the truth of His Word.

What the Bible says about the State of the Dead (study the Scriptures)
http://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL92023EF2357F1304 (watch all 3 videos)

God Bless

 

[Elijah19]

Whoa, seems like you really gave a good answer JesusLives! But just to clarify, what will occur with the soul while this sleeping is going on? What happens to it? I take it that at Resurrection, when our bodies rise from the grave, our souls will inhabit them? What does the soul do before that time?Thanks for posting so far!

 

[Sola_Scriptura]

Whoa, seems like you really gave a good answer JesusLives! But just to clarify, what will occur with the soul while this sleeping is going on? What happens to it? I take it that at Resurrection, when our bodies rise from the grave, our souls will inhabit them? What does the soul do before that time?Thanks for posting so far!

To comprehend the answer, we must discover exactly what a soul is.

Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Dust of the ground + Breath of life = Living soul

Please take note that man does not receive a soul, but becomes one. This is crucial to understand.

At death, the opposite takes place.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

The word "spirit" confuses many. It is the same thing as the "breath of life" in Genesis 2:7. Job confirms this. Notice what he calls that same breath of life put into man's nostrils.

Job 27:3 "All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;"

Now that we understand what a soul is, it is easier to know what happens to it at death. Since a complete person is a soul, when that person dies, the soul ceases to exist, because it takes a combination of 2 things to make the soul.

Dust of the ground (body) - Breath of life = No soul

Here is a metaphor to see the concept easier. I have some wood boards and some nails. I want to build a wood box. I nail the boards together with the nails and make the box. Now I pull the nails out and separate the boards from the nails. Where did the box go? It no longer exists because it can only exist when the 2 things are put together. Easy to understand isn't it.

God Bless

 

[Brainfreeze]

You soul is your mind, will, emotions, combined with "the Holy Spirit" ... Your body is dust. Souls will go to hell and some will go to heaven, guaranteed.

 

[directline2iam]

Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[TheClimaxWarrior]

Whoa, seems like you really gave a good answer JesusLives! But just to clarify, what will occur with the soul while this sleeping is going on? What happens to it? I take it that at Resurrection, when our bodies rise from the grave, our souls will inhabit them? What does the soul do before that time?Thanks for posting so far!

I studied this topic a many moons ago.

According to Atheists mankind are merely material beings. That is to say we are purely physical. Anthropological monism.

When it comes to humanity it is important for us Christians to realize where are more than material beings. More accurately dualism. We believe we are made up of material substance and immaterial.

We believe we are souls and we are bodies. Now this dualistic idea can be seen all the way back to the Old Testament. Where the Israelites believed when they died that there soul will go to Sheol the place of the dead while their bodies will wait for a future resurrection.

In the New Testament this clearly the stated by Peter and Paul.

Peter said:

2 Peter 1:14 KJV
Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Paul said:

2 Corinthians 5:8 KJV
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Paul knowing he will await for his future glorified body to experience the resurrection so that it can meet back up with the soul.

For Christians we can rejoice that when we die our souls goes to be with JESUS our Lord and our GOD. Yet we wait a future resurrection of our material body. In the mean time though we are composed of body and soul.

 

[Dan58]

Consider Luke 16:19-31, the parable of the rich man and the beggar (Lazarus). Particularly verse 26; "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us". Imo, this describes paradise and a type or sort of purgatory, separated by a gulf. Those saved are on one side of the gulf, Lazarus and the malefactor crucified with Christ went to Paradise, not heaven. And the rich man was on the other side of paradise, not hell, but a place where lost souls await judgement.

 

[JesusLives]

Consider Luke 16:19-31, the parable of the rich man and the beggar (Lazarus). Particularly verse 26; "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us". Imo, this describes paradise and a type or sort of purgatory, separated by a gulf. Those saved are on one side of the gulf, Lazarus and the malefactor crucified with Christ went to Paradise, not heaven. And the rich man was on the other side of paradise, not hell, but a place where lost souls await judgement.

The key word in your post is Parable.

 

[directline2iam]

Consider Luke 16:19-31, the parable of the rich man and the beggar (Lazarus). Particularly verse 26; "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us". Imo, this describes paradise and a type or sort of purgatory, separated by a gulf. Those saved are on one side of the gulf, Lazarus and the malefactor crucified with Christ went to Paradise, not heaven. And the rich man was on the other side of paradise, not hell, but a place where lost souls await judgement.

Not to pick a fight with you or anything but why did the rich man ask for a drop of water on his tongue to quench the burning if he wasn't in hell?

 

[Kerry]

The key word in your post is Parable.

What exactly is a parable? Is it a lie or is something that happened in truth and Jesus used it explain His teaching. I meant I can make junk up?

 

[john832]

You soul is your mind, will, emotions, combined with "the Holy Spirit" ... Your body is dust. Souls will go to hell and some will go to heaven, guaranteed.

And you have scriptures for this?

 

[john832]

I studied this topic a many moons ago.

According to Atheists mankind are merely material beings. That is to say we are purely physical. Anthropological monism.

When it comes to humanity it is important for us Christians to realize where are more than material beings. More accurately dualism. We believe we are made up of material substance and immaterial.

We believe we are souls and we are bodies. Now this dualistic idea can be seen all the way back to the Old Testament. Where the Israelites believed when they died that there soul will go to Sheol the place of the dead while their bodies will wait for a future resurrection.

In the New Testament this clearly the stated by Peter and Paul.

Peter said:

2 Peter 1:14 KJV
Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Paul said:

2 Corinthians 5:8 KJV
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Paul knowing he will await for his future glorified body to experience the resurrection so that it can meet back up with the soul.

For Christians we can rejoice that when we die our souls goes to be with JESUS our Lord and our GOD. Yet we wait a future resurrection of our material body. In the mean time though we are composed of body and soul.

Absent from the body eh? How do you understand this scripture then...

1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

Here Paul uses this colloquialism when speaking to the Corinthian church and it has nothing to do with death and the afterlife. It is a colloquialism that he used.

 

[john832]

Consider Luke 16:19-31, the parable of the rich man and the beggar (Lazarus). Particularly verse 26; "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us". Imo, this describes paradise and a type or sort of purgatory, separated by a gulf. Those saved are on one side of the gulf, Lazarus and the malefactor crucified with Christ went to Paradise, not heaven. And the rich man was on the other side of paradise, not hell, but a place where lost souls await judgement.

Really? Is this really factual? Or is it a parable? If it is factual teaching, let's notice a few things...

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

The man was portrayed as being in hell in terrible torment. Notice that they could see each other? Also notice they can hear each other?

Is this factual?

Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Not only could they see each other and hear each other but they are separated and Abraham cannot go to the rich man and render any aid.

Is this factual?

If it is, then there are mothers in heaven watching their unsaved children in hell writhing and twisting and frying, listening to their shrieks and screams, begging for help but the mothers are unable to render any comfort at all.

So, let me ask again, do you believe this is factual? If this is the reward a loving God hands out, what is the difference between going to heaven or hell?

It is a parable and illustrates a completely different meaning...

The Real Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man

 

[john832]

Not to pick a fight with you or anything but why did the rich man ask for a drop of water on his tongue to quench the burning if he wasn't in hell?

Why didn't he ask for at least a fire hose? I would have begged for a ocean of water, not a drop on my tongue.