Homosexual "christians"

[phil112]

You cannot embrace sin and debauchery and be a christian. If you sin daily and refuse to stop, you aren't a christian. A christian has the mind of Christ, follows His directives, and kills the old man daily. It doesn't matter how you put it, what source you quote, and which relative of yours falls into that category.

You cannot sin and go to heaven. All sin must be forgiven before you die. No sin is allowed in heaven. I am thankful that I have the word of God to guide me, that I don't have to be part of some fleshly organized religion, to count on for salvation.
"Yea, let God be true, tho every man a liar".

God's word is what I am interested in, and that alone. These people, just like islam, are giving christianity a bad name. I don't claim to be a christian. If I am, you won't need to be told. My walk is what God will judge me by, and that is where I focus my effort.
I am willing to believe if you have to tell someone you're christian for them to know, you may not be one.

Gay and lesbian Catholic groups are holding an international congress in Portugal this week as they seek to make their voices heard by the Vatican.....................Together they intend to press for an "urgent change of attitude from Catholic authorities" towards gay parishioners, said Jose Leote whose group Rumos Novos (New Directions) is organising the event.

First gay Catholic congress to press pope for change

"catholic authorities".....I scoff with derision. The only true authority is God, and His approval is the only one I seek.

 

[MadParrotWoman]

Amen to that! The only thing I would add is that it's not for us to judge the sinner - after all we are all sinners of one kind or another. It is God's job to judge the sinner, it is our job to love the sinner and point out the error of their ways to them and the consequences of continuing in the sin. I agree that all Christians must want to turn away from sin whether or not they succeed in doing so.

I know not all will agree with me on this but I no longer believe anyone is born gay.

 

[phil112]

Amen to that! The only thing I would add is that it's not for us to judge the sinner - after all we are all sinners of one kind or another. It is God's job to judge the sinner, it is our job to love the sinner and point out the error of their ways to them and the consequences of continuing in the sin. I agree that all Christians must want to turn away from sin whether or not they succeed in doing so.

I know not all will agree with me on this but I no longer believe anyone is born gay.

It distresses me to see folks that don't understand judging. The judgement we are not to make is one's eternal destiny. That judgement is for Christ, and Christ alone. If we don't judge we will never be able to tell if someone is right or wrong. Of course we are to judge. How else can we offer support, correction, and aid to a brother that has slipped or fallen, unless we first ascertain they have failed?

1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

 

[Jamal]

I cannot ever approve of anyone doing immoral things.

 

[Sola_Scriptura]

We aren't judging those who practice homosexuality. The LORD has already explained how He feels about those who do not repent. We are just agreeing with His Word, that is all.

The article regarding Catholicism and homosexuality does not surprise me. Considering that the Papacy will be the #1 player going into the time of trouble ahead, is it any wonder this type of thing is happening?

God Bless

 

[MadParrotWoman]

This is what I said: "it is our job to love the sinner and point out the error of their ways to them and the consequences of continuing in the sin." Differing from judgement which only God is worthy of because He is without sin.

 

[breno785au]

I think we need to tell people that we are Christians. If you do what is right and out of the ordinary in front of an unbeliever they aren't going to walk away thinking, 'They must be a Christian.'

 

[Blain]

Here is my take on the gays being Christian. The parable of the rich man is a good example, he was not willing to give up everything to follow Christ and I relate that to many things including an immoral sexual life. How can we truly follow God if we are not willing to give up everything for him? If we refuse to give up our sexual life like that then what does that say about our hearts toward God?

The desires may not go away at first and may need God's miraculous healing to fully go away but if we love our sexual desires more than God then we cannot be Christians. I do not approve of their lifestyle of sexual immorality but I do not judge them or cast a stone because I am not the judge of the sinner God is my job to help them teach them encourage them and enlighten them and love them God and God alone is the righteous judge.

However If a person especially a Christian Judges them or talks bad about them I will stand up for them and not allow it

 

[Skinski7]

Amen to that! The only thing I would add is that it's not for us to judge the sinner - after all we are all sinners of one kind or another. It is God's job to judge the sinner, it is our job to love the sinner and point out the error of their ways to them and the consequences of continuing in the sin. I agree that all Christians must want to turn away from sin whether or not they succeed in doing so.

I know not all will agree with me on this but I no longer believe anyone is born gay.

Is that what the Bible teaches? A Christian just has to "want" to turn away from sin? Christian's are just sinners anyway?

So a child molester who rapes babies can be a Christian so long as they "want" to stop but in the meantime they keep on raping babies? Is that what you really believe?

What it going on here?

My Bible says...

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Where is that preached today?

I don't see "want to stop sinning" in the Bible except in Romans 7 where we see the illustration of a man who is carnal and sold under sin, a man who is definitely not free from sin.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

What about Romans 6? Why do people just ignore that?

Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Paul doesn't teach that you must "want to stop sinning," no, he taught "crucify the old man whereby the body of sin is destroyed." Where is that taught today?

Paul taught...

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Do we just ignore this and instead teach "you must want to stop sinning and we all sin anyway."

What Gospel is this you speak of and where did you get it from? It certainly is not the Gospel Paul preached.

 

[RedTent]

I cannot ever approve of anyone doing immoral things.

Even as we read instructions in prayer we are told we can't have the forgiveness we ask Christ for if we won't give forgiveness. We are told not to judge others in scripture. In 1 Corinthians 6:2 we are also told we are to be able to judge angels, so we should certainly be able to judge when we have disagreements. There are many scriptures about being able to discern false prophets. We are to listen to all these instructions and follow each one of them.

Some people get so caught up in the instruction about false prophets they forget about the one about judging others. Others are so caught up in the instructions not to judge others that they accept false teachings. We are to go to the Lord in prayer for help to be able to see the sins, the falseness with judgments of them, but accept the sinner without judging him.

 

[MadParrotWoman]

Is that what the Bible teaches? A Christian just has to "want" to turn away from sin? Christian's are just sinners anyway?

So a child molester who rapes babies can be a Christian so long as they "want" to stop but in the meantime they keep on raping babies? Is that what you really believe?

What it going on here?

My Bible says...

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Where is that preached today?

I don't see "want to stop sinning" in the Bible except in Romans 7 where we see the illustration of a man who is carnal and sold under sin, a man who is definitely not free from sin.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

What about Romans 6? Why do people just ignore that?

Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Paul doesn't teach that you must "want to stop sinning," no, he taught "crucify the old man whereby the body of sin is destroyed." Where is that taught today?

Paul taught...

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Do we just ignore this and instead teach "you must want to stop sinning and we all sin anyway."

What Gospel is this you speak of and where did you get it from? It certainly is not the Gospel Paul preached.

So you never sin? You are perfect like Christ Himself? Wow!

 

[Blain]

Is that what the Bible teaches? A Christian just has to "want" to turn away from sin? Christian's are just sinners anyway?

So a child molester who rapes babies can be a Christian so long as they "want" to stop but in the meantime they keep on raping babies? Is that what you really believe?

What it going on here?

My Bible says...

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Where is that preached today?

I don't see "want to stop sinning" in the Bible except in Romans 7 where we see the illustration of a man who is carnal and sold under sin, a man who is definitely not free from sin.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

What about Romans 6? Why do people just ignore that?

Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Paul doesn't teach that you must "want to stop sinning," no, he taught "crucify the old man whereby the body of sin is destroyed." Where is that taught today?

Paul taught...

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Do we just ignore this and instead teach "you must want to stop sinning and we all sin anyway."

What Gospel is this you speak of and where did you get it from? It certainly is not the Gospel Paul preached.

Okay dude thats not what she was saying at all, the fact is sometimes old habbits die hard so even being saved sometimes you will still struggle with certain things and God cares that you are trying he will not condemn a person who is earnestly trying their best to change and he will in the end help them to overcome.

 

[gb9]

yes, skinski thinks he is absolutely perfect.

 

[Skinski7]

The desires may not go away at first and may need God's miraculous healing to fully go away but if we love our sexual desires more than God then we cannot be Christians. I do not approve of their lifestyle of sexual immorality but I do not judge them or cast a stone because I am not the judge of the sinner God is my job to help them teach them encourage them and enlighten them and love them God and God alone is the righteous judge.

The desires are to be crucified.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

It is the desires which draw people into sin...

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The issue is not about desires "going away" for they don't. The desires of the flesh are natural and normal, the issue is whether we are willing to crucify those desires or not and submit ourselves to God. We are to rule over our desires via abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

Jesus preached repentance because it is in repentance that we die to sin. The axe must be laid to the root of sin in our life which is the iniquity in the heart. When the heart is circumcised then the root of sin is destroyed and we can then yield to God having been set free from sin. If that does not happen then the sin will never stop.

The old man must be crucified once and for all. The body of sin must be destroyed just as Paul taught. That root of sin which keeps people sinning has to be overthrown. That is why Jesus taught that i n order to find life we must first die.

Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

The cross is an instrument of death and when we die with Christ we die to sin.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Which is why...

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

This process brings about a state where we no longer live the rest of our time in the flesh to the lusts of men.

Why is this ignored today? It is right there in the Bible but hardly anyone at all ever teaches it. No wonder people never overcome the sin in their lives because they never died to it as the Bible instructs.

As far as judging the Bible says this...

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


We are not to judge hypocritically. In other words we are to get our own house in order before contending for others to get their houses in order. If we have removed the log from our own eye through repentance and faith then we can clearly see the splinter in the eye of another. We are most definitely called to judge, just not to do it as a hypocrite.

 

[Skinski7]

Okay dude thats not what she was saying at all, the fact is sometimes old habbits die hard so even being saved sometimes you will still struggle with certain things and God cares that you are trying he will not condemn a person who is earnestly trying their best to change and he will in the end help them to overcome.

Old habits die hard? They are to be crucified or the person never truly repented.

A person who is saved will struggle with what? Child molestation? Rape and murder? Stealing? Pornography? Where do you draw the line?

If you teach that one can be saved and at the same time be enslaved then the salvation you believe in is nonsense. Jesus can set us free from sin, Jesus literally saves us from sin. It is a REAL salvation. Don't people want a REAL salvation? To be set free indeed?

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

 

[Skinski7]

yes, skinski thinks he is absolutely perfect.

So by default you are repudiating the teachings of Paul as expressed in Romans 6.

I never claimed to be perfect. Who could be perfect without perfect knowledge? Only Jesus could be perfect.

Yet as far as rebellion and choosing to do evil, that must stop. We must have perfect hearts towards God, our hearts must be pure.

You reject heart purity and mock it?

 

[MadParrotWoman]

I am not perfect, I sin at times but am instantly remorseful and take it to the Lord. The point is I never stop trying. Anyone who says they have reached perfection is lying - fact!

 

[gb9]

no, I do not mock purity , I mock liars who say they never do or think anything wrong. ever. because that is what sinless means.

 

[Blain]

The desires are to be crucified.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

It is the desires which draw people into sin...

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The issue is not about desires "going away" for they don't. The desires of the flesh are natural and normal, the issue is whether we are willing to crucify those desires or not and submit ourselves to God. We are to rule over our desires via abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

Jesus preached repentance because it is in repentance that we die to sin. The axe must be laid to the root of sin in our life which is the iniquity in the heart. When the heart is circumcised then the root of sin is destroyed and we can then yield to God having been set free from sin. If that does not happen then the sin will never stop.

The old man must be crucified once and for all. The body of sin must be destroyed just as Paul taught. That root of sin which keeps people sinning has to be overthrown. That is why Jesus taught that i n order to find life we must first die.

Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

The cross is an instrument of death and when we die with Christ we die to sin.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Which is why...

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

This process brings about a state where we no longer live the rest of our time in the flesh to the lusts of men.

Why is this ignored today? It is right there in the Bible but hardly anyone at all ever teaches it. No wonder people never overcome the sin in their lives because they never died to it as the Bible instructs.

As far as judging the Bible says this...

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


We are not to judge hypocritically. In other words we are to get our own house in order before contending for others to get their houses in order. If we have removed the log from our own eye through repentance and faith then we can clearly see the splinter in the eye of another. We are most definitely called to judge, just not to do it as a hypocrite.

I hate to break it to you but thats not always how it works. When a a gay person wants to be a Christian satan will make sure that those desires of theirs even when they decide to be saved will be a thorn in their side. Our sins are also to be crucified at the cross yet we do it anyways we even allow our sexual desires to take over sometimes, It is not your place to judge anyone except yourself and to say differently is simply pride and arrogance.

Who are you a simple sinner to judge another person? Christ is appointed to be the judge not you if you see yourself more righteous than a gay who is trying to be saved by quitiing their gay lifestyle then you have some serious humbling and learning to do. God doesnt say Oh you have to be pure enough for me or you have to stop having desires that you cannot beat on your own.
No he says come to me as you are and I will heal you and cloak you with a robe of love and give you a crown of righteousness. Maybe you should remember the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee

 

[Blain]

Old habits die hard? They are to be crucified or the person never truly repented.

A person who is saved will struggle with what? Child molestation? Rape and murder? Stealing? Pornography? Where do you draw the line?

If you teach that one can be saved and at the same time be enslaved then the salvation you believe in is nonsense. Jesus can set us free from sin, Jesus literally saves us from sin. It is a REAL salvation. Don't people want a REAL salvation? To be set free indeed?

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Im going to have to ask you not to misuse scripture that makes me very angry, scripture is sacred and precious and is not to be used lightly, I do not appreciate ppl misquoting scripture to fit their own agenda and I really hate to get angry but misusing scripture is when I draw the line