Conditional Salvation
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2 Cor 5:21 ends with "in Him"
There is no perfect righteousness outside of Christ. Therefore one MUST obediently be IN CHRIST to be clothed by His perfect righteousness. So if one falls OUTSIDE of Christ he is no longer "in Him" and no longer clothed by Christ's perfect righteousness..he becomes lost.
When one has received the word of God he has received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit apart from the word does not miraculously "illuminate" one's understanding....."Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)" Eph 3:4.
38) Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back [hypostello (hupostello) - 1. to draw back, let down, lower; A. to withdraw: of a timid person; 2. to withdraw one's self, i.e. to be timid, to cover, shrink; A. of those who from timidity hesitate to avow what they believe B. to be unwilling to utter from fear C. to shrink from declaring, to conceal, dissemble] My soul shall have no pleasure in him - I will not have pleasure in him.
39) BUT WE ARE NOT OF THEM that shrink back unto [eis - towards] perdition [apoleia - 1. destroying, utter destruction A. of vessels; 2. a perishing, ruin, destruction A. of money B. the destruction which consist of eternal misery in hell] but of them that believe to the saving [peripoiesis - preserved, preservation, to keep] of the soul [our life].
So here is 38, 39 -
But the just shall live by faith [faith that results in eternal life]: If a man acts timidly, refusing to avow what he believes because of fear, I shall have no pleasure in him. BUT WE ARE NOT AMONG THOSE who act timidly, refusing to avow what they believe because of fear, BUT WE ARE AMONG THOSE that believe to the preserving of our life.
BTW, just thought it was interesting that peripoiesis is the same Greek word for purchased possession in Eph. 1:14. God purchased us through the life of his Son - does he return us because he is not satisfied with the merchandise?
39) BUT WE ARE NOT OF THEM that shrink back unto [eis - towards] perdition [apoleia - 1. destroying, utter destruction A. of vessels; 2. a perishing, ruin, destruction A. of money B. the destruction which consist of eternal misery in hell] but of them that believe to the saving [peripoiesis - preserved, preservation, to keep] of the soul [our life].
So here is 38, 39 -
But the just shall live by faith [faith that results in eternal life]: If a man acts timidly, refusing to avow what he believes because of fear, I shall have no pleasure in him. BUT WE ARE NOT AMONG THOSE who act timidly, refusing to avow what they believe because of fear, BUT WE ARE AMONG THOSE that believe to the preserving of our life.
BTW, just thought it was interesting that peripoiesis is the same Greek word for purchased possession in Eph. 1:14. God purchased us through the life of his Son - does he return us because he is not satisfied with the merchandise?
38) Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back [hypostello (hupostello) - 1. to draw back, let down, lower; A. to withdraw: of a timid person; 2. to withdraw one's self, i.e. to be timid, to cover, shrink; A. of those who from timidity hesitate to avow what they believe B. to be unwilling to utter from fear C. to shrink from declaring, to conceal, dissemble] My soul shall have no pleasure in him - I will not have pleasure in him.
39) BUT WE ARE NOT OF THEM that shrink back unto [eis - towards] perdition [apoleia - 1. destroying, utter destruction A. of vessels; 2. a perishing, ruin, destruction A. of money B. the destruction which consist of eternal misery in hell] but of them that believe to the saving [peripoiesis - preserved, preservation, to keep] of the soul [our life].
So here is 38, 39 -
But the just shall live by faith [faith that results in eternal life]: If a man acts timidly, refusing to avow what he believes because of fear, I shall have no pleasure in him. BUT WE ARE NOT AMONG THOSE who act timidly, refusing to avow what they believe because of fear, BUT WE ARE AMONG THOSE that believe to the preserving of our life.
BTW, just thought it was interesting that peripoiesis is the same Greek word for purchased possession in Eph. 1:14. God purchased us through the life of his Son - does he return us because he is not satisfied with the merchandise?
39) BUT WE ARE NOT OF THEM that shrink back unto [eis - towards] perdition [apoleia - 1. destroying, utter destruction A. of vessels; 2. a perishing, ruin, destruction A. of money B. the destruction which consist of eternal misery in hell] but of them that believe to the saving [peripoiesis - preserved, preservation, to keep] of the soul [our life].
So here is 38, 39 -
But the just shall live by faith [faith that results in eternal life]: If a man acts timidly, refusing to avow what he believes because of fear, I shall have no pleasure in him. BUT WE ARE NOT AMONG THOSE who act timidly, refusing to avow what they believe because of fear, BUT WE ARE AMONG THOSE that believe to the preserving of our life.
BTW, just thought it was interesting that peripoiesis is the same Greek word for purchased possession in Eph. 1:14. God purchased us through the life of his Son - does he return us because he is not satisfied with the merchandise?
You defined perdition as:
perdition [apoleia - 1. destroying, utter destruction A. of vessels; 2. a perishing, ruin, destruction A. of money B. the destruction which consist of eternal misery in hell] but of them that believe to the saving [peripoiesis- preserved, preservation, to keep] of the soul [our life]
So one can draw back FROM SALVATION unto perdition/destruction/ruin/destruction which consist of eternal misery in hell.
Since one does not draw back from perdition unto perdition one must be drawing back FROM salvation UNTO perdition
There is no such thing as being "clothed by His perfect righteousness."
Where do you get that from? Ask yourself that question.
Where does the Bible teach that a Christian is "clothed in the righteousness of Christ" ?
It doesn't.
We put on Christ in the sense that we abide in His Spirit and walk according to that Spirit. Thus we walk by a faith that works by love by the power of the Spirit.
The language of being "clothed by the righteousness of Christ" is theological language developed by men and by using it you are forcing yourself to discuss things within a framework of error.
One of the most effective means of propaganda and deception is to redefine the terms people use thus by necessity an entire paradigm (ie. framework of thinking) is is created which subverts the mind.
This is how a person can be kept within a box. The box is their own mind and it is fundamental assumptions to which they hold which keeps the box locked. Satan is much smarter than most people realise.
This is why Jesus taught that if a light be darkness it is great darkness indeed.
Think about it please.
Where do you get that from? Ask yourself that question.
Where does the Bible teach that a Christian is "clothed in the righteousness of Christ" ?
It doesn't.
We put on Christ in the sense that we abide in His Spirit and walk according to that Spirit. Thus we walk by a faith that works by love by the power of the Spirit.
The language of being "clothed by the righteousness of Christ" is theological language developed by men and by using it you are forcing yourself to discuss things within a framework of error.
One of the most effective means of propaganda and deception is to redefine the terms people use thus by necessity an entire paradigm (ie. framework of thinking) is is created which subverts the mind.
This is how a person can be kept within a box. The box is their own mind and it is fundamental assumptions to which they hold which keeps the box locked. Satan is much smarter than most people realise.
This is why Jesus taught that if a light be darkness it is great darkness indeed.
Think about it please.
There is no such thing as being "clothed by His perfect righteousness."
Where do you get that from? Ask yourself that question.
Where does the Bible teach that a Christian is "clothed in the righteousness of Christ" ?
It doesn't.
We put on Christ in the sense that we abide in His Spirit and walk according to that Spirit. Thus we walk by a faith that works by love by the power of the Spirit.
The language of being "clothed by the righteousness of Christ" is theological language developed by men and by using it you are forcing yourself to discuss things within a framework of error.
One of the most effective means of propaganda and deception is to redefine the terms people use thus by necessity an entire paradigm (ie. framework of thinking) is is created which subverts the mind.
This is how a person can be kept within a box. The box is their own mind and it is fundamental assumptions to which they hold which keeps the box locked. Satan is much smarter than most people realise.
This is why Jesus taught that if a light be darkness it is great darkness indeed.
Think about it please.
Where do you get that from? Ask yourself that question.
Where does the Bible teach that a Christian is "clothed in the righteousness of Christ" ?
It doesn't.
We put on Christ in the sense that we abide in His Spirit and walk according to that Spirit. Thus we walk by a faith that works by love by the power of the Spirit.
The language of being "clothed by the righteousness of Christ" is theological language developed by men and by using it you are forcing yourself to discuss things within a framework of error.
One of the most effective means of propaganda and deception is to redefine the terms people use thus by necessity an entire paradigm (ie. framework of thinking) is is created which subverts the mind.
This is how a person can be kept within a box. The box is their own mind and it is fundamental assumptions to which they hold which keeps the box locked. Satan is much smarter than most people realise.
This is why Jesus taught that if a light be darkness it is great darkness indeed.
Think about it please.
Gal 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
When one is baptized into Christ he "puts on Christ". The phrase "put one Christ' carries the idea of putting on a coat. When you put on a coat you are then IN the coat as when one puts on Christ he is then IN Christ.
The Greek word for "put on" is endyo meaning "to sink into (clothing), put on, clothe one's self" Strong's
So when one puts on Christ he then is "clothed" in Christ's glory, His perfect righteousness. Therefor falling out of Christ one falls out of His perfect righteousness.
Our starting point should be in defining salvation.
If an individuals fundamental understanding of what salvation actually is then any subject addressing whether one can "fall from salvation" or not simply becomes oppositions of knowledge so called. Paul specifically warned that we ought not get caught up in such vain discussions.
Salvation is a manifest state where we have been literally saved from sin because we have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2Pet 1:-3-5) via the death of the old man in repentance (Rom 6:4-7) and the rebirth of the new man via the quickening (Eph 2:5, Col 2:10-14).
If people are approaching salvation as a "positional abstraction" then there is absolutely no point engaging them unless you address the root of their error. This is the very reason that the OSAS vs non-OSAS just goes on and on with people promoting their various proof texts.
If an individuals fundamental understanding of what salvation actually is then any subject addressing whether one can "fall from salvation" or not simply becomes oppositions of knowledge so called. Paul specifically warned that we ought not get caught up in such vain discussions.
Salvation is a manifest state where we have been literally saved from sin because we have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2Pet 1:-3-5) via the death of the old man in repentance (Rom 6:4-7) and the rebirth of the new man via the quickening (Eph 2:5, Col 2:10-14).
If people are approaching salvation as a "positional abstraction" then there is absolutely no point engaging them unless you address the root of their error. This is the very reason that the OSAS vs non-OSAS just goes on and on with people promoting their various proof texts.
Reformed theology teaches that the "righteousness of Christ" is credited to an individuals account via mental trust in the fact. Thus they use the term, "clothed in the righteousness of Christ."
By you using that term you are engaging them within their framework of error instead of pulling down the strongholds from the foundation. It is a fools errand to approach things that way.
The Bible verse you quoted does not say we are "clothed in the righteousness of Christ." It says...
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
We have parallel passages like this...
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
When you say, "when one puts on Christ he then is "clothed" in Christ's glory, His perfect righteousness," all you are doing is twisting the passage you picked with rhetorical exposition in order to present a case from your own perceptions instead of letting the scripture actually speak.
You are approaching things within a theological framework developed by men and then applying that framework to the Bible. Sure you are not like these other people who are blatantly arguing in favour of being able to sin and not surely die, yet you are still operating from within the framework of the same error.
When we put on Christ it is in the context of abiding in a manifest state whereby God reckons our faith as righteousness. It has nothing to do with the righteousness of another cloaking you. By contending that it does you might as well adopt the Calvinist position because, in principle, your position is not much different.
By you using that term you are engaging them within their framework of error instead of pulling down the strongholds from the foundation. It is a fools errand to approach things that way.
The Bible verse you quoted does not say we are "clothed in the righteousness of Christ." It says...
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
We have parallel passages like this...
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
When you say, "when one puts on Christ he then is "clothed" in Christ's glory, His perfect righteousness," all you are doing is twisting the passage you picked with rhetorical exposition in order to present a case from your own perceptions instead of letting the scripture actually speak.
You are approaching things within a theological framework developed by men and then applying that framework to the Bible. Sure you are not like these other people who are blatantly arguing in favour of being able to sin and not surely die, yet you are still operating from within the framework of the same error.
When we put on Christ it is in the context of abiding in a manifest state whereby God reckons our faith as righteousness. It has nothing to do with the righteousness of another cloaking you. By contending that it does you might as well adopt the Calvinist position because, in principle, your position is not much different.
Our starting point should be in defining salvation.
If an individuals fundamental understanding of what salvation actually is then any subject addressing whether one can "fall from salvation" or not simply becomes oppositions of knowledge so called. Paul specifically warned that we ought not get caught up in such vain discussions.
Salvation is a manifest state where we have been literally saved from sin because we have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2Pet 1:-3-5) via the death of the old man in repentance (Rom 6:4-7) and the rebirth of the new man via the quickening (Eph 2:5, Col 2:10-14).
If people are approaching salvation as a "positional abstraction" then there is absolutely no point engaging them unless you address the root of their error. This is the very reason that the OSAS vs non-OSAS just goes on and on with people promoting their various proof texts.
Yet if that is all your definition includes then you too are viewing salvation as an abstraction. Instead of it being a positional state as the Calvinists teach, it is more a future state. Yet salvation is something that has a PRESENT MANIFESTATION and by excluding that from your definition then salvation itself loses all meaning.
The root word of salvation is SAVED and saved means "being saved from something." The Bible teaches we are "saved from sin" and THAT IS THE ISSUE which people ignore.
Paul wrote...
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Freed from sin.
All these false Christian's who argue in favour of ongoing sin utterly deny the reality of salvation being a MANIFEST RESCUE.
To expose their error all one has to do is expose that the salvation they teach is not salvation at all, thus any contention of OSAS becomes irrelevant.
OSAS is simply an error which naturally flows out from deeper error. It is the deeper error that has to be revealed whereby OSAS then collapses because it is without foundation.
Seabass,
Here is a good example...
Originally Posted by SeaBass
The obedient believer is put into Christ, Hen 5:9; Gal 3:27 where he is covered by Christ's perfect righteousness. But if one quits believing he falls from Christ becoming lost in his own unrighteousness.
So God runs an 'In and Out' hamburger franchise?
Look at how crossnote responds to you. Due to the fact that he adheres to salvation existing as a pure abstraction (ie. not a manifest state) therefore DEEDS have no bearing on it.
Thus crossnote takes your very own words which are presented completely within the framework of crossnotes false paradigm (clothed in another's righteousness ie. an ABSTRACT cloak instead of a MANIFEST HEART STATE) and comes against your statement.
You are answering a fool according to his folly.
Here is a good example...
The obedient believer is put into Christ, Hen 5:9; Gal 3:27 where he is covered by Christ's perfect righteousness. But if one quits believing he falls from Christ becoming lost in his own unrighteousness.
So God runs an 'In and Out' hamburger franchise?
Thus crossnote takes your very own words which are presented completely within the framework of crossnotes false paradigm (clothed in another's righteousness ie. an ABSTRACT cloak instead of a MANIFEST HEART STATE) and comes against your statement.
You are answering a fool according to his folly.
Rom 4:3 "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."
Counted (logizomai) means to put on one's account, to reckon and does not carry the idea of righteousness being transferred from Christ to the sinner. Instead the sinner through obedience to the gospel is transferred into Christ, clothed in Christ.
It is not error but BIBLICAL to say "clothed in Christ"
The NASB, and NIV render Gal 3:27 "For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."
The Holman Christian Standard Bible has "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ like a garment."