Basic logic on why God does not want to save everyone.

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isfreewilltrue

Guest
#1
#1
There is no power or force above God. He could pull all out of hell, He could change everyone's hearts and make them live right. He could cause all to believe and walk right. He could save everyone with a flick of his finger. He's God. With many finding the broad gate to hell and few finding the narrow gate to heaven, if God truly wanted to save everyone , He would be a complete failure. Reading in romans we find that God chose His people before the foundation of the world, not based on any good thing they had done because there is none good, no not one. Does not the potter have power over the clay to make one vessel unto honour and one unto dishonor. As it is written , Jacob have I loved but esau have I hated. Before either one had been born or done any good or evil that the purpose of election would stand not of works but of God that sheweth mercy. God has mercy on whom He will, and whom He will he hardeneth . Scary but true.
 
JesusChica1991

JesusChica1991

Banned
#2
May 9, 2012
1,514
25
0
#2
Actually he wants to save everyone but he leaves it to man's choice as to whether or not they wish to be saved. :)
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#3
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
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#3
Grabs my popcorn in anticipation for a good old Calvinistic vs. Arminian debate...umm, err, discussion. :p
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#4
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#4
Why is the word logic used in the post title? Nothing logical in the assumptions posed in the OP.

John 3:18-21 completely upsets the core premise that the decision is Gods.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
E

elf3

Guest
#6
#6
isfreewilltrue said:
There is no power or force above God. He could pull all out of hell, He could change everyone's hearts and make them live right. He could cause all to believe and walk right. He could save everyone with a flick of his finger. He's God. With many finding the broad gate to hell and few finding the narrow gate to heaven, if God truly wanted to save everyone , He would be a complete failure. Reading in romans we find that God chose His people before the foundation of the world, not based on any good thing they had done because there is none good, no not one. Does not the potter have power over the clay to make one vessel unto honour and one unto dishonor. As it is written , Jacob have I loved but esau have I hated. Before either one had been born or done any good or evil that the purpose of election would stand not of works but of God that sheweth mercy. God has mercy on whom He will, and whom He will he hardeneth . Scary but true.
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Called the Sovereignty of God and who are we to question. I'll say this again...why can God have a chosen in the OT and we will agree upon that but when it comes to the NT we have a problem with God's chosen? Is God still not sovereign?
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#8
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#8
elf3 said:
Called the Sovereignty of God and who are we to question. I'll say this again...why can God have a chosen in the OT and we will agree upon that but when it comes to the NT we have a problem with God's chosen? Is God still not sovereign?
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Do you know why they were chosen and what that entailed?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
E

elf3

Guest
#10
#10
Popcorn is popcorn in my own opinion best snack ever lol
 
E

elf3

Guest
#11
#11
notuptome said:
Do you know why they were chosen and what that entailed?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Ok just from this response you seem to know God's Sovereignty so why don't you explain it.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#12
Aug 28, 2012
19,213
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#12
isfreewilltrue said:
There is no power or force above God. He could pull all out of hell, He could change everyone's hearts and make them live right. He could cause all to believe and walk right. He could save everyone with a flick of his finger. He's God. With many finding the broad gate to hell and few finding the narrow gate to heaven, if God truly wanted to save everyone , He would be a complete failure. Reading in romans we find that God chose His people before the foundation of the world, not based on any good thing they had done because there is none good, no not one. Does not the potter have power over the clay to make one vessel unto honour and one unto dishonor. As it is written , Jacob have I loved but esau have I hated. Before either one had been born or done any good or evil that the purpose of election would stand not of works but of God that sheweth mercy. God has mercy on whom He will, and whom He will he hardeneth . Scary but true.
Click to expand...
This is not logic its a matter of opinion. He wants everyone to be saved but he gives us the freedom to choose him or not. He treasures a heart that loves him out of their own free will more than a heart that has to love him no matter what.
I dont believe in the whole predestination thing as I know that he is a loving father and would not create ppl who were predestined to burn in hell, and even if this was true I know he is a righteous Lord and I trust him
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#13
Aug 28, 2012
19,213
2,548
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#13
I cant tell you how many times I have wanted him to take my free will so I could be his puppet, but he always replied with my response above about the whole free will thing.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#14
Jul 31, 2013
36,658
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#14
i like popcorn a lot, but i don't have very good teeth, so when i eat it it gets stuck in crevices and such, and i worry about cavities and spend a lot of time trying to get the last little bits of husk out of my mouth.

i think that's probably a metaphor.

God is not willing that any should be lost, but what is it to you if He has made some vessels for honorable use and some for dishonorable? for myself, i'm ecstatic that He chose me to hear and believe and to be redeemed!!
what, will i then turn around and judge Him? or think i know His plans?

maybe i'll have some chips instead.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#15
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#15
elf3 said:
Ok just from this response you seem to know God's Sovereignty so why don't you explain it.
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The purpose of man's creation is to glorify God. Man cannot glorify God if man's love is not given by free will.

Israel was not chosen from among all the nations on the earth to be saved but to be the vessel through which God would bring His word and His will to pass.

God's sovereign will allows man to have a free will. Man in the garden received the knowledge of good and evil. It is now mans responsibility to choose. Herein is God glorified. It is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance. You may have noticed that God causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
breno785au

breno785au

Senior Member
#16
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
113
39
Australia
#16
posthuman said:
i like popcorn a lot, but i don't have very good teeth, so when i eat it it gets stuck in crevices and such, and i worry about cavities and spend a lot of time trying to get the last little bits of husk out of my mouth.

i think that's probably a metaphor.

God is not willing that any should be lost, but what is it to you if He has made some vessels for honorable use and some for dishonorable? for myself, i'm ecstatic that He chose me to hear and believe and to be redeemed!!
what, will i then turn around and judge Him? or think i know His plans?

maybe i'll have some chips instead.
Click to expand...
Yes we still choose to eat it when it's offered don't we? Or we can choose not to it eat when it's offered to us. :) Choose wisely
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#17
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#17
posthuman said:
i like popcorn a lot, but i don't have very good teeth, so when i eat it it gets stuck in crevices and such, and i worry about cavities and spend a lot of time trying to get the last little bits of husk out of my mouth.

i think that's probably a metaphor.

God is not willing that any should be lost, but what is it to you if He has made some vessels for honorable use and some for dishonorable? for myself, i'm ecstatic that He chose me to hear and believe and to be redeemed!!
what, will i then turn around and judge Him? or think i know His plans?

maybe i'll have some chips instead.
Click to expand...

Chips? Yay, posthuman has chips!! You better be sharin' them with the blue lady.. lol :) I'll bring the dip..partyyyyyy!!! :eek:
 
E

elf3

Guest
#18
#18
notuptome said:
Do you know why they were chosen and what that entailed?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
notuptome said:
The purpose of man's creation is to glorify God. Man cannot glorify God if man's love is not given by free will.

Israel was not chosen from among all the nations on the earth to be saved but to be the vessel through which God would bring His word and His will to pass.

God's sovereign will allows man to have a free will. Man in the garden received the knowledge of good and evil. It is now mans responsibility to choose. Herein is God glorified. It is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance. You may have noticed that God causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
Yes I agree our purpose in life is to glorify God.

Now look at your paragraph or sentence about Israel. You do agree that Israel was chosen. To paraphrase you say: Israel was not chosen for this but for this thus you are still saying Israel was chosen by God.

And the popcorn you described sounds so good!
 
Word_Swordsman

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
#19
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
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#19
God could have skipped making man and enlarged the host of angels around Him. I can't imagine spending eternity with billions of robotic minded beings rubber stamping every word, no challenges, not having a single being that chose to be with God in eternity. Would you want a wife chosen for you about which you have no voice, and doesn't fit your idea of a life mate?
 
K

kenetic

Guest
#20
#20
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In lovehe predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insightmaking known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christas a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.”
Ephesians 1:3–10

That is all that needs to be said. His will.
 
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