Would this be considered Satanic Heresy??

yogosans14 · Oct 15, 2014

he rosary is indeed optional. It's one of the best options out there, but it is optional. But I believe you must be careful not to let your words mislead others. The rosary is optional but*Marian devotion is most certainly not. All of the great saints and spiritual writers have spoken consistently on this point.*A devotion to Our Blessed Lady is most necessary to salvation.

For those wishing to convert and embrace the Catholic faith, they must be encouraged to develop their devotion to Our Lady, as all Catholics must.*Because if you do not love Mary, you cannot love Jesus. If you have no love for Our Lady, and do not let her enter into your heart, then you are not a Catholic.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.*

saw this post on Christian forums.com

blue_ladybug · Oct 15, 2014

yogosans14 said:

Rosaries are not needed for praying. Mary was a human, a sinful human, and that is all. Yes, she was Jesus' earthly mother, but that's all she was. She is NOT a saint or a prophet and should NOT be prayed to or worshipped. It is God who hears and answers our prayers, not Mary. The comment "a devotion to our blessed lady is most necessary to salvation" is false and heretical in the sense that it is our devotion to and faith in and love for JESUS that is the key to salvation!! If you don't believe and have faith in Jesus,and are not saved, you do not have salvation. We should not love Mary anyway, it is JESUS whom we are to revere and honor and love. Mary found favor in God's eyes, but she WAS still a sinner, as are we all. She is not to be worshipped or prayed to or treated like an idol, for she is none of those things. If you think revering Mary will earn you a ticket to heaven, then you are sadly mistaken!! JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO HEAVEN!! Through him, and him alone.

kepha · Oct 15, 2014

I think the rosary is a beautiful devotion, designed to lead us to Jesus in an intimate way, deeper than anti-Catholics can comprehend. It is also a good bible study because it places you in the major events of the Bible. It's called contemplation. But you are throwing pearls before swine with an opening post on the rosary. It was given to St. Dominic to convert the Albigensians. That might be a good place to start, since Baptist Successionists claim them as their spiritual forefathers, the oppressed "remnant".

MaranathaSoonQuick · Oct 15, 2014

Well, we should love Mary the same as with anyone else. Love everyone. The rest is fabricated.

JesusChica1991 · Oct 15, 2014

Sorry, I don't pray to Mary. I pray to Jesus. K?

swords · Oct 15, 2014

Mary is are heavenly mother she is the mother of Christians just go read the promises Mary made to Christians about the rosary . you know just like Joshua walked around the walls Jericho just like if you pray around your problems with the rosary they too shall come crumbling down . They hail Mary is just saying what the early Christians said .

santuzza · Oct 15, 2014

Yes, it's heresy.

wattie · Oct 15, 2014

kepha said:

It is true that SOME baptist claim lineage going way back... but not to people so much as a direct link to the New Testament churches going through all generations.

Now this link.. cannot be completely perfectly traced because A LOT of these christians with baptist (more like independent baptist) beliefs were CUT OFF WITH THE KNIFE. Millions of them!

The booklet The Trail of Blood booklet is a summary of this. The Battle for Baptist history gives more detail on this.

It is real history. If God promised He would have His churches through all generations.. and Catholics had incorporated infant baptism.. salvation by works.. worship of mary and the saints..

Then it has logically got to be independent christians who weren't catholic.

Now.. there were groups that got lumped with the baptist name.. which actually as you say.. were not really seperated from Catholicism..

But the true groups that claim the lineage going right back:

* Are distinctive by sticking to the likes of
*only baptising adults after they have professed salvation,
*belief in the bible as the sole authority on matters of faith,
*re-baptism of adults who have been in catholicism or another erring teaching
*autonomy and independence of the local assembly
*Lord's Supper as a practice for the members of that local assembly only
*Tithing to a local assembly

They were given nicknames.. and persecuted to the maximum.. but have remained. They weren't reformers.. they weren't catholics.

Another book: Churches in the Valley of Piedemont.. will show this. It is written by someone who wasn't an inherent of these teachings.. but shows a lot of the real history. Persecuted christians living around some valleys of mountains who kept to the above teachings, existing well before the reformation and never catholic.

Churches that adhere to these teaching exist now.. many have the name bible baptist, independent missionary baptist or independent baptist, landmark baptist .. others may have no denominational name but stick to the teaching above.

St Dominic may have been commissioned to 'convert' them when going back in history.. but which group was actually sticking to biblical teaching? Those who sent St Dominic.. or the group who were supposed to be converted?

Also- what was the 'conversion'? Join the Roman Catholic church or be killed?

And as for studying the bible.. the rosary is no where in it.

If this post is pretty pointed. . it is because these baptist you mention.. have a history of incredible persecution.. and my own church has the same teaching of these persecuted churches.

Tintin · Oct 15, 2014

I believe it's good to love Mary and yes, I agree that she's a saint but no more so than any other brother or sister in Christ. She should be honoured for carrying Christ when He came to earth as a human babe, but we aren't meant to worship her or even venerate her. Mary was no less a saved sinner than you or I, but God chose her all the same. Our God is the only one who should be worshipped. I believe Mary would be greatly disturbed by the fact that many worship/venerate her over her Creator, Saviour and Lord.

crossnote · Oct 16, 2014

yogosans14 said:

Jesus? nope
John? nope
Matthew? nope
Luke? nope
Mark? nope
Peter? nope
Paul? nope
Jude? nope
James? nope

I'll pass.

Kaycie · Oct 16, 2014

Jesus has ALL authority in religious matters today. (Matt. 28:18). Where in the bible did He authorize the rosary idol? In what verse did He authorize praying to or through Mary? 1 Timothy 2:5 says, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus." The ONLY way we, or our prayers, get to the Father is through Jesus Christ. Mary is just another Christian on the same level as anyone else. God does not show favoritism to any of His children. (Romans 2:11). When God says, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." That includes Mary.

kepha · Oct 16, 2014

wattie said:

When Baptists attempt to discover the origins of their tradition they are faced with a historical dilemma. The search for Baptists roots hits a dead end in the sixteenth century. ..Such a historical continuity is a factual impossibility though the proponents continue aggressively promoting their theories. First, we will summarize the popular theory as espoused in the popular booklet The Trail of Blood and secondly, we will analyze their position historically. It is helpful to remember, according to W. Morgan Patterson, associate professor of church history at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, that the “Baptist historians”-those who are proponents of this view-”have been preachers and pastors first of all, and historians second”
(Baptist Successionism, Valley Forge, P.A., Judson Press, 1980), 5.

Carroll presumes to lay out the true marks of the Church through his interpretation of the Bible alone. Several of his marks of the Church—”landmarks or earmarks of this religion”—are the belief that the Bible, actually “the New Testament and that only,” is the sole rule of faith; Jesus is the only head of the church with no visible head possible, and each congregation is autonomous. Carroll says the authority of each local congregation is “to be congregational, democratic. A government of the people, by the people, and for the people” (p. 8). Carroll presumes to found all his assertions on Scripture, yet this “prerequisite” of church government is found not in Scripture but in Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address. Carroll makes great use of Catholic tradition and history
when it suits his purpose, but rejects and ignores them both when they contradicted his presuppositions.

The Trail of Blood theory alleges that true churches—as opposed to the Catholic Church—have been persecuted and forced underground throughout most of history. The alleged carnage and bloodshed following the persecutions is called the “Trail of Blood”. There is no evidence that any “Baptist churches” ever existed before the Reformation, but that, it is claimed, is because the Catholic Church destroyed all the evidence as they chased the Baptists to the ends of the earth.

Carroll identifies many divergent groups throughout history, claiming them as baptistic. These groups are a montage of unrelated sects and heretics, including the Albigenses, Cathari, Paulicians, Arnoldists, Henricians and more.
The Cathari and Albigenses taught that Christ was an angel with a phantom body whose death and resurrection were only
allegorical and the Incarnation impossible since the body was evil, created by evil. They also rejected the resurrection of the body and the existence of hell. Since the Catholic Church took the New Testament literally, the Church was viewed as corrupted and doing the work of the devil.

The Paulicians, similarly believed that there were two fundamental principles: a good God and an evil God; the first is the ruler of the world to come and the second the master of the present world. By their reasoning, then, Christ could not have been the Son of God because the good God could not take human form. They were basically dualists and Gnostics. ... The Waldenses, started by Peter Waldo (c. 1150−1218) are an example of a
group Baptist successionists would consider baptistic. maintaining “Baptist churches” in the midst of persecution during the medieval period.

Edward T. Hiscox, author of the classic Baptist handbook, Principles and Practices for Baptist Churches (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Kregel Publications, 1980) claims the Waldenses and the above mentioned groups held to the principle points “which Baptists have always emphasized”. Hiscox, however, doesn’t inform his readers that the Waldenses for the most part believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary, the effectiveness of the sacraments, infant baptism, that “the Sacrifice [of the Mass], that is of the bread and wine, after the consecration are the body and blood of Jesus Christ”, that good deeds
of the faithful may benefit the dead, to name just a few. That Baptist successionists can claim the Waldenses as their ancestors-sharing a common belief and practice-is quite untenable, if not disingenuous.

Baptist James Edward McGoldrick, professor of history at Cedarville College, summarizes the situation well. “Perhaps no other major body of professing Christians has had as much difficulty in discerning its historical roots as have the Baptists...

After acknowledging his initial advocacy of “successionism”, McGoldrick explains, “Extensive graduate study and independent investigation of church history has, however, convinced [me] that the view once held so dear has not been, and cannot be, verified. On the contrary, surviving primary documents render the successionist view untenable. . .. Although free church groups in ancient and medieval times sometimes promoted doctrines and practices agreeable to modern Baptists, when judged by standards now acknowledged as baptistic, not one of them merits recognition as a Baptist church.
Baptists arose in the seventeenth century in Holland and England. They are Protestants, heirs of the Reformers” (Baptist Successionism: A Crucial Question in Baptist History
[Metuchen, NJ: American Theological Library Assoc. and Scarecrow Press, 1994], 1−2).

Oh, I forgot...baptists cut off their own history professors with the knife.

fredjames · Oct 16, 2014

yogosans14 said:

i respect and admire your boldness in your from childhood taught believes of Christianity. But our childhood taught believes are from the HOLY BIBLE and that remains in our hearts and acts as our heart beat.

It is heresy when someone twist or add to things written in the HOLY BIBLE, which is the establish Kingdom Spiritual sound doctrine and taught by the given HOLY SPIRIT, upon baptism and it can be the 'vicar of CHRIST' himself.

First of all because of Grace and Truth, i do love Catholic and i live in a neighborhood of also Catholics, but i cannot be equally yoked in believes. i am no better than a Catholic but i have the Word/CHRIST of the written New Covenant, received as a gift of GOD, that is 'by Grace through faith'. They are in me and as well as in others, even in this forum, in order for us to distinguish between the spirit of error and the spirit of truth.

Which i would compare you with, that you and others can judge for themselves, that we must listen and believe. JESUS warned us of imposters and thieves 'who do not go through the gate(CHRIST) but go around and climb in by the fence'.

So, let us begin by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT then, what the Scripture justify regarding this matter. Firstly in GOD's written Word, as it is written, Mother Mary is remembered and will be spoken of in this world as;

'a blessed woman among all women.'

An elderly women spoke up and said;

"Blessed is the womb which bore you and breasts that nursed you."

But HE replied:

"Blessed rather those who hear the word of GOD and keep(abide) it."

They are the born again, not only born of water but also of the HOLY SPIRIT and New Testament Word 'abiding' citizens of Heaven.

A naturally born people (like a catholic) in a crowded house told JESUS, that HIS mother, brothers and sisters are standing outside desiring to see HIM. But HE answered them that;

"My mother and brothers are those who hear the Word of GOD and do it."

These people who have been born of a natural parents, will be offended by JESUS answer, or may be twist it in order to justify contradictions. But Mother Mary remain firm in her believes toward her SON's answers and even told the servants at the wedding banquet in Canaan that;

"Do whatever HE(JESUS) tells you."

Then as later we know she herself became a believer and followed JESUS until at the Cross. And that's when seeing her faith, JESUS proclaimed mother and son with Apostle John from then onwards.

If she would be alive today, and if the Catholics go to her personally, she would only tell them the same, as she said to the wedding banquet servants in Canaan.

pastac · Oct 16, 2014

So let me get this right all the knowledgeable people on this site are saying Mary was a sinner? What sin did she commit being born in human form? So if that is the case then she has no significance other than she was Jesus natural saved sinner Mother. Well what saved Mary and when was that recorded in scripture? Let me rash this out if Mary was a virgin and Highly favored she had to be selected and hand picked by God himself. I'm guessing he knew what he was doing by selecting her.

If that is the case where would the sin be if he made her for that purpose. People get so off track they forget Jesus could not have been in a vessel of sin to be born into a world of sin if he was going to save mankind from sin. Studies in scripture give no accounting of Mary's upbringing in this world other than who her parents were in the natural course of things. I conclude she was born for this cause and set aside for this cause.
Praying to her is out of divine order. Using a rosary a cross, a set of beads is nothing scripture tells us to do. Scripture clearly tells us how to pray. The example used in scripture begins with Our Father Not our mother! Many traditions from the bible were pagan and mixed in with ceremonial customs because the people were human not divine. Several temples and foreign gods and idols intermingled among Jehovah Gods' people one of the hardest things was keeping them separated. Mary went on to have other children after Jesus was born she was his earth mother and had a special place in his heart but that did not make her a saint by whatever way you arrive at being a saint? That's another teaching I guess. Share some thoughts.

pastac · Oct 16, 2014

fredjames said:

i respect and admire your boldness in your from childhood taught believes of Christianity. But our childhood taught believes are from the HOLY BIBLE and that remains in our hearts and acts as our heart beat.

It is heresy when someone twist or add to things written in the HOLY BIBLE, which is the establish Kingdom Spiritual sound doctrine and taught by the given HOLY SPIRIT, upon baptism and it can be the 'vicar of CHRIST' himself.

First of all because of Grace and Truth, i do love Catholic and i live in a neighborhood of also Catholics, but i cannot be equally yoked in believes. i am no better than a Catholic but i have the Word/CHRIST of the written New Covenant, received as a gift of GOD, that is 'by Grace through faith'. They are in me and as well as in others, even in this forum, in order for us to distinguish between the spirit of error and the spirit of truth.

Which i would compare you with, that you and others can judge for themselves, that we must listen and believe. JESUS warned us of imposters and thieves 'who do not go through the gate(CHRIST) but go around and climb in by the fence'.

So, let us begin by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT then, what the Scripture justify regarding this matter. Firstly in GOD's written Word, as it is written, Mother Mary is remembered and will be spoken of in this world as;

'a blessed woman among all women.'

An elderly women spoke up and said;

"Blessed is the womb which bore you and breasts that nursed you."

But HE replied:

"Blessed rather those who hear the word of GOD and keep(abide) it."

They are the born again, not only born of water but also of the HOLY SPIRIT and New Testament Word 'abiding' citizens of Heaven.

A naturally born people (like a catholic) in a crowded house told JESUS, that HIS mother, brothers and sisters are standing outside desiring to see HIM. But HE answered them that;

"My mother and brothers are those who hear the Word of GOD and do it."

These people who have been born of a natural parents, will be offended by JESUS answer, or may be twist it in order to justify contradictions. But Mother Mary remain firm in her believes toward her SON's answers and even told the servants at the wedding banquet in Canaan that;

"Do whatever HE(JESUS) tells you."

Then as later we know she herself became a believer and followed JESUS until at the Cross. And that's when seeing her faith, JESUS proclaimed mother and son with Apostle John from then onwards.

If she would be alive today, and if the Catholics go to her personally, she would only tell them the same, as she said to the wedding banquet servants in Canaan.

Fred having a problem understanding what you mean by this highlighted statement can you eloborate

CS1 · Oct 16, 2014

the bible says all have sinned and fallen short. all. including Mary who needed Jesus to save her as did we all. and that is what happen to her she was a saved believer and Acts 1:14 she is recorded being there when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the 120. The Bible says she would be called blessed amongst women found in Luke 1:28, 42 after the Holy Spirit caused Elisabeth child to leap inside her womb. and it's says that Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost Luke 1:41 and she said with a loud Voice 42 Blessed are thou among women. in verse 47 we see the words all generations shall call me Blessed. are to pray to her nope. Is she to be worshiped ? nope not what the bibles says. Is she to be honored ? I would say the bible does say that. the greatest words spoken by Mary the mother of our Lord was " do what ever HE tell you to do" in ref: to Jesus at the wedding where the water was changed to wine. God hand picked people all the time that were born in sin and shape in equity. after Jesus rose again Mary was saved because she is recorded on the day of Pentecost. the bible doesn't say that she was sinless nor do I believe the Bible says she had to be to bring forth Jesus. we really do not know other than she was chosen by God. because Jesus was conceived by the Spirit of God and not by the will of man Jesus had no sin. 2 cor 5:21

wattie · Oct 16, 2014

Carroll presumes to lay out the true marks of the Church through his interpretation of the Bible alone. Several of his marks of the Church—”landmarks or earmarks of this religion”—are the belief that the Bible, actually “the New Testament and that only,” is the sole rule of faith; Jesus is the only head of the church with no visible head possible, and each congregation is autonomous. Carroll says the authority of each local congregation is “to be congregational, democratic. A government of the people, by the people, and for the people” (p. 8). Carroll presumes to found all his assertions on Scripture, yet this “prerequisite” of church government is found not in Scripture but in Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address. Carroll makes great use of Catholic tradition and history
when it suits his purpose, but rejects and ignores them both when they contradicted his presuppositions.

point one- of course the NT is the sole rule of faith.. because we are under the NT covenant! I seriously doubt that Carroll actually denied the OT was part of the Word of God.. but just that it had been FULFILLED.

Jesus as the Head of each church-- of course He is! This is all through scripture. If a human is the head - it's not being driven by God! Now of course there are pastors who are the leaders of these churches.. but they aren't the actual head.

Each church to be congregational and democratic-- this is also all thru scripture. Ephesus was independent of Corinth, Antioch independent of Phillipi etc.. and they all voted democratically on matters of faith within their congregations.

How are these assertions NOT in scripture?

I will stop posting in response to this history because we are on opposite end of the poles and I seriously doubt we will be meeting in the middle.

But if you are going to be talking about what actually comes from scripture.. you gotta go to the bible itself. It interprets itself. Line upon line.. precept upon precept.

Word_Swordsman · Oct 16, 2014

I usually stay out of topics castigating someone's cherished religion, but the nature of this thread demands it. The RCC is a non-Christian false religion. There's a huge problem with adding a command or new requirement for salvation or having a relationship with Christ 1000 years after the Bible was finished. The whole thing is absurd, gross heresy. This is just one example of doctrines of men supplanting the pure Word of God, the clear teachings of Jesus and the apostles. The Apocrypha has been used to contaminate the precious gospel of Christ, moving Jesus off center, putting his mother front and center.

None of the Church Fathers during that first millennia of Church history commented on the rosary or Marian devotion topics that I can determine, those being invented like said in a post above by St. Dominic. Way too little is written in the Bible of Mary to believe anything other than what was written. Yet, more power is attributed to her than to Jesus. In our Catholic hospital it is a common sight to see nuns kneeling and praying to a statue of Mary, while the carpet in front of the statue of Jesus holding a lamb has carpet showing no wear. They pass right by it. The whole idea of a statue of Jesus is heresy, too. I don't care what a Pope had to say about it. My eternal High Priest Jesus Christ trumps anything the Popes said or ever will say that isn't Bible based as witnessed by the first century Church.

Over the past 2000 years the RCC has added a huge collection of traditions and doctrines more expansive than the Bible itself, many a serious mis-handling of scriptures. Ever seen a hardcover set of the Catholic Encyclopedia? I found a complete set of it at a garage sale for $10, but it was too old to cover a lot of new entries since about 1908. The volumes filled a 24" square cardboard box, but were infected with mildew. Not that I planned to study it! It is available for viewing on the web. You would find many far wilder heresies than Marian devotion.

Flee from the RCC.

yogosans14 · Oct 16, 2014

Thanks for all your reply everyone and im not catholic. I just happen to come across this post in another forum and it made me furious.

notuptome · Oct 16, 2014

It was very pagan practice to repeat the same phrases over and over again many times. At times it was with great enthusiasm and at great volume. Pagan gods are often hard of hearing

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Would this be considered Satanic Heresy??

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