HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Faith!

[peaceand]

HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Faith!

I came across a very different kind of bible study. It's a homemade video with some black guy in a hoody, he's not in a pastor's wardrobe so I didn't expect much. But I found it hard to argue against some of the points he made in the first 15 minutes. Believe it or not, I ended up actually sitting through the whole thing and now I find my faith in jeopardy for the first time in my life. In the video every new point he brings up builds on all of the previous points. I've shown it to 2 Deacons at my church, neither could beat the video. Can a well versed bible scholar here on Christianchat, or maybe a moderator, watch this video too and give me a way to biblically beat the many points he linked together.

Help!

"Wayne's Thoughts: On The Bible"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO8dmN7CAQ4

 

[crossnote]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Could you start by naming the toughest point you find hard to beat?

 

[dcontroversal]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Could you start by naming the toughest point you find hard to beat?

No doubt and I agree...just list the points that he made......like..

1. He said this
2. He said this
3. He said this

That is what I would do...I cant stand posted videos as I live in the middle of no where and have Sat. Internet and I can only get so many gigabytes HAHHAHAH before I start having to take out bank loans (joking) in order to stay online.....funny!

 

[RedTent]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

This is the same question presented here on CC over and over. Can we read the Torah, the first 5 chapters of the bible that we are supposed to know so well, with a western or modern way of thinking, or should we learn something of that world it speaks of first? Why is there spiritual about stoning people, why is Joshua told to kill, why the 613 laws, are we supposed to turn the other cheek or is it an eye for an eye? The basic question is who created us and what are the characteristics of God? Some say that God is mean and evil, Christ came to save us from that evil.

The truth is that every step the Lord took to establish the world we could live in was a step of love for us. We were not created in evil with evil intent, God truly is love. There were no prisons, but God gave ways that man could live in what the word shalom means. These ways should be enforced or we could not have a secure world. If we steal from each other, murder if we get angry, and don't respect the family we can not have that and to allow it in society takes away our security. The people Joshua was sent to get out of the land God wanted for us were pure evil, and evil spreads. There was no hope for them to learn anything different, our only hope was to get evil completely wiped out. You cannot give love and care to evil and have good. An eye for an eye was told so that the unjust laws would work for justice instead. To take a hand for stealing an apple as was done was not just.

It is evil to say that our creator is evil, and to read the holy word only to say the Son came to correct the Father is distorting scripture, it is evil.

 

[djness]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

I watched several chunks of it. The guy compares peeing on some seeds to being the creator and anyone who thinks God could have made a sucky world is an idiot.

Seeing as you only have one post are you the guy who made the video? Is this anonymous self promotion.

If this kid shook your faith then I think you need to read the bible {perhaps for the first time}.

 

[iamsoandso]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

I came across a very different kind of bible study. It's a homemade video with some black guy in a hoody, he's not in a pastor's wardrobe so I didn't expect much. But I found it hard to argue against some of the points he made in the first 15 minutes. Believe it or not, I ended up actually sitting through the whole thing and now I find my faith in jeopardy for the first time in my life. In the video every new point he brings up builds on all of the previous points. I've shown it to 2 Deacons at my church, neither could beat the video. Can a well versed bible scholar here on Christianchat, or maybe a moderator, watch this video too and give me a way to biblically beat the many points he linked together.

Help!

"Wayne's Thoughts: On The Bible"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO8dmN7CAQ4

peaceand,,,in the video he begins(first scripture on poster) at genesis 31;11-13,,,did you read(re-check) to see if he is presenting it correctly?,,,If you consider verse 4 Jacob has called Leah and Rachel to the field where he is feeding his flock,,,and then during his conversation with them he recites his dream to them(verse 10) a messenger,, Angels in Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (verse 11) and then the one giving the message(verse 13) "identifies there self as the God of Bethal",,,,and then in verse 14 Rachel and Leah respond,,,,,,,

So this is God delivering his own message,,,but Jacob is reciting the dream of it to his wives,,,,,,if I ask you to deliver a message(angel) for me to any of the others who are responding to your thread then are you an angel,and am I God?,,so then an angel can both be a messenger sent by God to deliver his message,,and also God himself can deliver his own message and is also considered and "angel",,but every angel is not God.

 

[iamsoandso]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

peaceand,,I notice that you joined C.C.,,,"6 hours ago",,which is great,"Welcome to C.C.",,,,,but in your first thread you give a link to a video that is over 2 hours long,,,,,,,,"NOBODY WILL WATCH IT",,,I only watched 5:30 of it into the 15 min. portion of it,,,,,(why?),,we all live in a world where GB's=$,,,if I watch a video that is 2 hours long then my ISP will throttle back my connection,,,so any and everyone who is posting long YouTube videos(over a couple of minutes long),,will find the first page or two of their threads asking them to re-cap the things in it,,,or else just someone just rambling off random thoughts,,,hence long drawn out sermons on YouTube=someone speaking to the mirror,,,,

 

[crossnote]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

I watched several chunks of it. The guy compares peeing on some seeds to being the creator and anyone who thinks God could have made a sucky world is an idiot.

Seeing as you only have one post are you the guy who made the video? Is this anonymous self promotion.

If this kid shook your faith then I think you need to read the bible {perhaps for the first time}.

That's a big reason why I asked my question..I suspected a one poster drive-by.

 

[Agricola]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

He starts off with a Tin Foil Hat conspiracy theories regarding the pyramid and all seeing eye that is religion of today, its everywhere, this religion which says the eye represents an angel which is God, This wayne chap then goes about proving it in the Bible, the clue is that he says he has created a new religion.

As I said numerous times, you can cherry pick all kinds of verses in the Bible and come up with all kinds of crackpot theories, so just ignore this Wayne.

 

[Agricola]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

I watched several chunks of it. The guy compares peeing on some seeds to being the creator and anyone who thinks God could have made a sucky world is an idiot.

Seeing as you only have one post are you the guy who made the video? Is this anonymous self promotion.

If this kid shook your faith then I think you need to read the bible {perhaps for the first time}.

Wouldnt Surprise me. Classic tactics to self promote!

 

[peaceand]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

peaceand,,,in the video he begins(first scripture on poster) at genesis 31;11-13,,,did you read(re-check) to see if he is presenting it correctly?,,,If you consider verse 4 Jacob has called Leah and Rachel to the field where he is feeding his flock,,,and then during his conversation with them he recites his dream to them(verse 10) a messenger,, Angels in Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (verse 11) and then the one giving the message(verse 13) "identifies there self as the God of Bethal",,,,and then in verse 14 Rachel and Leah respond,,,,,,,

So this is God delivering his own message,,,but Jacob is reciting the dream of it to his wives,,,,,,if I ask you to deliver a message(angel) for me to any of the others who are responding to your thread then are you an angel,and am I God?,,so then an angel can both be a messenger sent by God to deliver his message,,and also God himself can deliver his own message and is also considered and "angel",,but every angel is not God.

Yes his video has a lot to say, but I learned more about what's actually in the bible from sitting down and watching it for 2 hours than I have over the last 10 years. Not that I agree with his points, but that some things I just never heard of before, like the angel.

So "iamsoandso" you think the angel isn't God? The angel literally said "I am God", that's stronger than John 1:1 and it's not vague language. Do you think Jesus is God?

As someone who believes Jesus is God, it is hard for me to say "That angel who said 'I am God' is not God at all", while trying to maintain that Jesus is God. If I say that the angel being called God so many times doesn't matter, then by the same logic there's no statement which can make Jesus God. And I'm not willing to accept that Jesus isn't God, so I'm left wondering about the angel.

And there's an angel of God who is called God, and in the same bible we have 1 Chronicles 21:1 and 2 Samuel 24:1 which call Satan God the Father. It does seem, as strange as it sounds, that the bible's making the statement that there is an angel who is God - and that that angel's name is Satan.

 

[crossnote]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Yes his video has a lot to say, but I learned more about what's actually in the bible from sitting down and watching it for 2 hours than I have over the last 10 years. Not that I agree with his points, but that some things I just never heard of before, like the angel.

So "iamsoandso" you think the angel isn't God? The angel literally said "I am God", that's stronger than John 1:1 and it's not vague language. Do you think Jesus is God?

As someone who believes Jesus is God, it is hard for me to say "That angel who said 'I am God' is not God at all", while trying to maintain that Jesus is God. If I say that the angel being called God so many times doesn't matter, then by the same logic there's no statement which can make Jesus God. And I'm not willing to accept that Jesus isn't God, so I'm left wondering about the angel.

And there's an angel of God who is called God, and in the same bible we have 1 Chronicles 21:1 and 2 Samuel 24:1 which call Satan God the Father. It does seem, as strange as it sounds, that the bible's making the statement that there is an angel who is God - and that that angel's name is Satan.

The antichrist will also claim to be God...doesn't make it so...

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[elf3]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

I tried to watch but truthfully as soon as he said "I created my own religion"...yeah done with that crap! 2 hrs of my own religion? Nope not wasting my time!

You best read your Bible before you believe it.

 

[peaceand]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

The antichrist will also claim to be God...doesn't make it so...

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

So help me with this then - John 1:1 says Jesus is God but doesn't have Jesus quoted as calling himself the exact term God, Genesis talks about someone other than Jesus, an angel, & not only declares the angel to be God but has the angel declare it about himself. Here are 5 questions.

1. Is Genesis 31:11-13 greater than John 1:1? Why or why not?

2. You say the angel saying he himself is God is not a true statement & should be taken as some kind of joke, well that angel even calls himself God again in Ex 3:2-6. Not only that, but he is worshiped in those verses. Is that angel being worshiped in Ex 3:2-6 & Josh 5:13-15 a joke as well? Were Moses and Joshua mistaken in worshiping that angel?

3. Jesus said "I am only a representative", the angel said "I am God" - how can anyone who considers Jesus to be more than just a representative & to be God himself, at the same time make the angel only a representative and not God? How does that work out?

4. Who physically stood on Mount Sinai and is called "the God of Israel" in Ex 24:9-12?

5. 1 Chronicles 21:1 and 2 Samuel 24:1 speak of the same exact event and declare Satan to be God the Father. Why doesn't that concern you since those two verses come in the same bible which declares an angel of God actually is the God as in Gen 31:11-13?

 

[crossnote]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

So help me with this then - John 1:1 says Jesus is God but doesn't have Jesus quoted as calling himself the exact term God, Genesis talks about someone other than Jesus, an angel, & not only declares the angel to be God but has the angel declare it about himself. Here are 5 questions.

1. Is Genesis 31:11-13 greater than John 1:1? Why or why not?

2. You say the angel saying he himself is God is not a true statement & should be taken as some kind of joke, well that angel even calls himself God again in Ex 3:2-6. Not only that, but he is worshiped in those verses. Is that angel being worshiped in Ex 3:2-6 & Josh 5:13-15 a joke as well? Were Moses and Joshua mistaken in worshiping that angel?

3. Jesus said "I am only a representative", the angel said "I am God" - how can anyone who considers Jesus to be more than just a representative & to be God himself, at the same time make the angel only a representative and not God? How does that work out?

4. Who physically stood on Mount Sinai and is called "the God of Israel" in Ex 24:9-12?

5. 1 Chronicles 21:1 and 2 Samuel 24:1 speak of the same exact event and declare Satan to be God the Father. Why doesn't that concern you since those two verses come in the same bible which declares an angel of God actually is the God as in Gen 31:11-13?

1. 'Angel' simply means messenger. That messenger may be a created being or a Theophany...an appearance of God Himself.
Context will determine which.
2. Never mentioned a joke (you're not RedTent are you?). Again, a Theophany.
3.Jesus never said "I am only a representative''. Don't do satan's work misquoting Him. Jesus did say ''I AM''. (remember the burning bush?)
4.Another Theophany.
5. Where in the world do you get satan being called God the Father out of the following?

1 Chronicles 21:1-2 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beer-sheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.

 

[peaceand]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

1. 'Angel' simply means messenger. That messenger may be a created being or a Theophany...an appearance of God Himself.
Context will determine which.
2. Never mentioned a joke (you're not RedTent are you?). Again, a Theophany.
3.Jesus never said "I am only a representative''. Don't do satan's work misquoting Him. Jesus did say ''I AM''. (remember the burning bush?)
4.Another Theophany.
5. Where in the world do you get satan being called God the Father out of the following?

1 Chronicles 21:1-2 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beer-sheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.

So now you COMPLETELY changed up your story and you now are saying the angel was a "theophany", which you define as God here on earth. Are you saying that God the Father was physically here on earth in Ex 24:9-12? Spell out exactly what you're saying.

 

[peaceand]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

1. 'Angel' simply means messenger. That messenger may be a created being or a Theophany...an appearance of God Himself.
Context will determine which.
2. Never mentioned a joke (you're not RedTent are you?). Again, a Theophany.
3.Jesus never said "I am only a representative''. Don't do satan's work misquoting Him. Jesus did say ''I AM''. (remember the burning bush?)
4.Another Theophany.
5. Where in the world do you get satan being called God the Father out of the following?

1 Chronicles 21:1-2 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beer-sheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.

Also, you didn't answer this - is Gen 31:11-13 greater than John 1:1? Why or why not?

You say that the bible doesn't give an exact answer to who the angel who is called God is, but it does. The following 2 verses "mirror" each other and speak on the same exact event...

1 Chron 21:1,
SATAN incited David to number the people.

2 Sam 24:1,
JEHOVAH incited David to number the people.

So yes, it did bother me when I saw Wayne say this in the video. How can it not bother me. In the same bible that says that there is an angel of God who is God, it also says that Satan is God the Father. How am I supposed to not be troubled by that?

 

[Agricola]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Also, you didn't answer this - is Gen 31:11-13 greater than John 1:1? Why or why not?

You say that the bible doesn't give an exact answer to who the angel who is called God is, but it does. The following 2 verses "mirror" each other and speak on the same exact event...

1 Chron 21:1,
SATAN incited David to number the people.

2 Sam 24:1,
JEHOVAH incited David to number the people.

So yes, it did bother me when I saw Wayne say this in the video. How can it not bother me. In the same bible that says that there is an angel of God who is God, it also says that Satan is God the Father. How am I supposed to not be troubled by that?

DO a proper study yourself, then you will find out a few things. To summarise, God was Angry against Israel, yet again, population of Israel continually rebel and go against God.

God does not cause people to sin, but God still have control over Satan, read about Job to see this in action. Therefore it was Satan who incited David, proberbly on the instruction of God.

Please note the video again, that this Wayne says he has created a new religion, this has come about by twisting single verses, which is what you are repeating with this 1 Chronicles and Samuel verses. Satan is not God.

As for angel, well God appears as anything he likes, burning bush for example, so yes God appears in Angel form, so what? it is not an angel who is God, but it is God. It is not a recognised part of God either, its not part of the God Head as far as we know.

Again you need to study this properly yourself and start reading your Bible with a couple of good commentries and study notes.

 

[Butch5]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

I came across a very different kind of bible study. It's a homemade video with some black guy in a hoody, he's not in a pastor's wardrobe so I didn't expect much. But I found it hard to argue against some of the points he made in the first 15 minutes. Believe it or not, I ended up actually sitting through the whole thing and now I find my faith in jeopardy for the first time in my life. In the video every new point he brings up builds on all of the previous points. I've shown it to 2 Deacons at my church, neither could beat the video. Can a well versed bible scholar here on Christianchat, or maybe a moderator, watch this video too and give me a way to biblically beat the many points he linked together.

Help!

"Wayne's Thoughts: On The Bible"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO8dmN7CAQ4

The first problem I see is that the dude seems to think the Angel of God is an "angelic being". The word angolos angel means messenger. The proper translation is the messenger of the Lord. The messenger was Jesus, the Son of Gog, thus he is divine.

 

[Kerry]

Re: HELP! I Just Watched An In Depth & Unorthodox Bible Study Video That Shook My Fai

Jesus is not the son of Gog, I hope this was a typo.