The law of Christ

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Mar 4, 2013
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#1
Is the law given to Moses spiritually different than the law of Christ?

Give a distinct yes or a no when answering this question.

Hopfully this will eleviate confusion that causes circular rhetoric that has no end.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,171
113
#2
No - I delight in the law of Love God has given to us. It shows us what He expects of us and that is Love. He wants our Love to be freely given to Him and requested that in the first 4 of the 10 and the last 6 He wants us to Love each other it is a perfect Law of Love which was restated in NT by We should love the Lord our God with all our hearts and our neighbors as ourselves.

God's law is not a burden but a delight and if everyone on earth would follow the instructions we would have heaven on earth. To bad not everyone wants to obey what has been given us as instructions for God's government.

Simple rules to follow and the Holy Spirit is given to us to help us obey and Jesus sacrifice paid the price for our sins so that we are saved and have a way back to reconcile with our Father in Heaven.... It is a perfect plan of Love that has been given to us....

Thank You Father for a way out of this sinful earth and back to You, Thank You Jesus for Your sacrifice that I accept and Thank You Holy Spirit for dwelling with me and teaching me daily. Amen
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#3
the portion of scripture where Jesus says, 'But I say unto you, that whosoever looks upon a woman to lust
after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.'

...Christ is not only telling us to not commit physical adultery - (this is Him expanding on the Law already there
and combining 'Thou shall not commit adultery with 'Thou shall not covet...'

He came to magnify the Law and make/keep it Honorable.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
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#4
No - I delight in the law of Love God has given to us. It shows us what He expects of us and that is Love. He wants our Love to be freely given to Him and requested that in the first 4 of the 10 and the last 6 He wants us to Love each other it is a perfect Law of Love which was restated in NT by We should love the Lord our God with all our hearts and our neighbors as ourselves.

God's law is not a burden but a delight and if everyone on earth would follow the instructions we would have heaven on earth. To bad not everyone wants to obey what has been given us as instructions for God's government.

Simple rules to follow and the Holy Spirit is given to us to help us obey and Jesus sacrifice paid the price for our sins so that we are saved and have a way back to reconcile with our Father in Heaven.... It is a perfect plan of Love that has been given to us....

Thank You Father for a way out of this sinful earth and back to You, Thank You Jesus for Your sacrifice that I accept and Thank You Holy Spirit for dwelling with me and teaching me daily. Amen
AMEN. I have determined that those that fight against the law given to Moses have a carnal mind because they are unable to see the spiritual significance in its instructions. They can only see failure and condemnation in it, and their only alternative is to claim it as void, abolished, negated, past, gone, over, and so on.
Romans 8:5-7
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
 
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Kerry

Guest
#5
YES - the law was given as stop gap measure until in the fulfillment of time when Jesus would come and die on the cross and then be resurrected. Which brought about a new and better covenant. As the law was a covenant. Secondly the law was given to show man's guilt and the cross was given to set men free from that guilt and the power of sin by faith in it. NOT GUILTY.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#6
YES - the law was given as stop gap measure until in the fulfillment of time when Jesus would come and die on the cross and then be resurrected. Which brought about a new and better covenant. As the law was a covenant. Secondly the law was given to show man's guilt and the cross was given to set men free from that guilt and the power of sin by faith in it. NOT GUILTY.
When we are in Christ is the law still nothing more than the revelation of our guilt?

Do we then make void the law through faith?
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#7
When we are in Christ is the law still nothing more than the revelation of our guilt?

Do we then make void the law through faith?
No- the law is good and I am speaking of the law of God and not the Mosaic law with all of it's rituals and food laws and so on.

When a person accepts Christ as their Savior an automatic change happens. When they once enjoyed sin and rolled in sin and got up the next afternoon and called their friends to laugh and glory in their sin. Now, they detest it, and want to have nothing to do with it. This is why it's called being born again.

The law was given to show what sin was, The cross was given to deliver from sin. The cross is the means and object of our faith. This allows the Holy Spirit to work in us producing fruit. The law could not produce fruit it only condemns as no man has ever been able to keep the law. Hence the need for a Savior.

I essence and in truth, by placing faith in the work of the cross and not our works, the Holy Spirit causes us to follow the word of God.

But here is the struggle, we are still human and in flesh bodies and it is in our flesh to be our own God. Many will not beleive me on this, but this is what happens.

Our faith by temptation or by our own flesh gets shifted from the cross and placed in what we do. I mean we even start boasting, well I do this and I do that ( this is Romans 6,7,and8). when we do this, it ties the hand of the Holy Spirit so to speak as the Holy Spirit will only work in the parameters of the cross. Then we find ourselves doing things that we don't want to do.

But millions are under doctrines that teach differently, and we go crazy, asking God why am I doing this, please help me to stop. When the fact is we are bound by sin, because we have shifted our faith. And is the reason that the cross must preached continually and why we must be in the word reading and understanding the cross.

I know this is deep and can't be explained in a couple of Paragraphs. But, when reading Romans and others of Paul's epistles where it say's faith ask yourself "faith in what".
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#8
Is the law given to Moses spiritually different than the law of Christ?

Give a distinct yes or a no when answering this question.

Hopfully this will eleviate confusion that causes circular rhetoric that has no end.
Well different in what way? I see a broad question wrestling in the fog without clear definition. Who can answer such a thing?

When the law of Moses was given the purchase of the bride had yet to be made and thus the righteous dead awaited yet the means of inheriting the promised land through the Messiah.

The law of Moses was a tutor for it depicted what love ought to look like, yet with the spirit of the law removed all that wrought was bondage. So is the law spiritually different? Without understanding the defining intent of the question I can only apply that of my own. No the spiritually is no different because the source is the same and the source is not divided against itself.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#9
Is the law given to Moses spiritually different than the law of Christ?

Give a distinct yes or a no when answering this question.

Hopfully this will eleviate confusion that causes circular rhetoric that has no end.
Moral law is the same administered differently...

Galatians 2:19-20 For through the law I died to the law so that I may live to God.
I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
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#10
No- the law is good and I am speaking of the law of God and not the Mosaic law with all of it's rituals and food laws and so on.

When a person accepts Christ as their Savior an automatic change happens. When they once enjoyed sin and rolled in sin and got up the next afternoon and called their friends to laugh and glory in their sin. Now, they detest it, and want to have nothing to do with it. This is why it's called being born again.

The law was given to show what sin was, The cross was given to deliver from sin. The cross is the means and object of our faith. This allows the Holy Spirit to work in us producing fruit. The law could not produce fruit it only condemns as no man has ever been able to keep the law. Hence the need for a Savior.

I essence and in truth, by placing faith in the work of the cross and not our works, the Holy Spirit causes us to follow the word of God.

But here is the struggle, we are still human and in flesh bodies and it is in our flesh to be our own God. Many will not beleive me on this, but this is what happens.

Our faith by temptation or by our own flesh gets shifted from the cross and placed in what we do. I mean we even start boasting, well I do this and I do that ( this is Romans 6,7,and8). when we do this, it ties the hand of the Holy Spirit so to speak as the Holy Spirit will only work in the parameters of the cross. Then we find ourselves doing things that we don't want to do.

But millions are under doctrines that teach differently, and we go crazy, asking God why am I doing this, please help me to stop. When the fact is we are bound by sin, because we have shifted our faith. And is the reason that the cross must preached continually and why we must be in the word reading and understanding the cross.

I know this is deep and can't be explained in a couple of Paragraphs. But, when reading Romans and others of Paul's epistles where it say's faith ask yourself "faith in what".
What is the difference between the law God gave to Moses and the law of God?
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
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#11
Well different in what way? I see a broad question wrestling in the fog without clear definition. Who can answer such a thing?

When the law of Moses was given the purchase of the bride had yet to be made and thus the righteous dead awaited yet the means of inheriting the promised land through the Messiah.

The law of Moses was a tutor for it depicted what love ought to look like, yet with the spirit of the law removed all that wrought was bondage. So is the law spiritually different? Without understanding the defining intent of the question I can only apply that of my own. No the spiritually is no different because the source is the same and the source is not divided against itself.
That's it!
Matthew 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

The law God gave to Moses and written for our understanding is not against the grace of God through Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior. It was by the grace of God that the law was given in the first place.
 
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Mar 3, 2013
858
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#12
Is the law given to Moses spiritually different than the law of Christ?

Give a distinct yes or a no when answering this question.

Hopfully this will eleviate confusion that causes circular rhetoric that has no end.
No. The law given to Moses is not spiritually different than the law of Christ.
One thing I have noticed is that people most of the time do not take the time to differentiate between the Law God gave to Moses and the law that the Pharisees doctored up, amended, and added huge amounts of their own physical elements to. Therefore, they are confused and when they read the things Jesus said about obedience to the law being a negative attribute (apparently not realizing He was talking about the Pharisaical laws) and insist the Law of God is now obsolete because of that misunderstanding.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
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#13
No. The law given to Moses is not spiritually different than the law of Christ.
One thing I have noticed is that people most of the time do not take the time to differentiate between the Law God gave to Moses and the law that the Pharisees doctored up, amended, and added huge amounts of their own physical elements to. Therefore, they are confused and when they read the things Jesus said about obedience to the law being a negative attribute (apparently not realizing He was talking about the Pharisaical laws) and insist the Law of God is now obsolete because of that misunderstanding.
The law of Moses and the law of the Pharisees are very different.
Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,011
212
63
#14
No. They are the same.

Jesus is God, and therefore He himself gave the Law to Moses to be kept spiritually, and physically where applicable.
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,703
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#15
Is the law given to Moses spiritually different than the law of Christ?

Give a distinct yes or a no when answering this question.

Hopfully this will eleviate confusion that causes circular rhetoric that has no end.
The same GOD that gave moses the law to give to the Isrealites is the same GOD that doesn't change but the thing is that no man before JESUS could keep it,but I would say it was the same spiritually, its just that it could only be established in man through faith in the grace that JESUS provided.
JESUS did the law the way GOD gave it to Moses but he had mercy on us men that could not keep the law.
I would say its the same it was administered different.The first one no help.The new one grace.

Wait a minute,didn't JESUS break his standard since, if you break the law you have offended the whole thing.

JESUS died on the cross and took our place satisfying the demand of breaking the law.
the new covenant.
GRACE.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
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#16
The same GOD that gave moses the law to give to the Isrealites is the same GOD that doesn't change but the thing is that no man before JESUS could keep it,but I would say it was the same spiritually, its just that it could only be established in man through faith in the grace that JESUS provided.
JESUS did the law the way GOD gave it to Moses but he had mercy on us men that could not keep the law.
I would say its the same it was administered different.The first one no help.The new one grace.

Wait a minute,didn't JESUS break his standard since, if you break the law you have offended the whole thing.

JESUS died on the cross and took our place satisfying the demand of breaking the law.
the new covenant.
GRACE.
Jesus would never have died if He hadn't carried our sins in His own body as He carried the cross up the hill to Calvary. His law is the same as God's law. You are right that Jesus didn't break even one law, for if He would have, He would have been guilty of breaking all of them.

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. (John 8:28)

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (John 14:10)
 
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Kaycie

Guest
#17
No. To the soul in the old testament and the soul in the new testament it is the same. However if Christ didn't die neither would be of any effect. One is a shadow of the reality. Colossians 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
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#18
No. To the soul in the old testament and the soul in the new testament it is the same. However if Christ didn't die neither would be of any effect. One is a shadow of the reality. Colossians 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Well said. Jesus confirms that the law His Father gave to Israel is the same as the law of Christ according to our Spiritual comprehension though the Holy Ghost.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
 
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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,363
185
63
#19
YES - the law was given as stop gap measure until in the fulfillment of time when Jesus would come and die on the cross and then be resurrected. Which brought about a new and better covenant. As the law was a covenant. Secondly the law was given to show man's guilt and the cross was given to set men free from that guilt and the power of sin by faith in it. NOT GUILTY.
How about explaining how the Law was a stop gap?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,363
185
63
#20
No- the law is good and I am speaking of the law of God and not the Mosaic law with all of it's rituals and food laws and so on.

When a person accepts Christ as their Savior an automatic change happens. When they once enjoyed sin and rolled in sin and got up the next afternoon and called their friends to laugh and glory in their sin. Now, they detest it, and want to have nothing to do with it. This is why it's called being born again.

The law was given to show what sin was, The cross was given to deliver from sin. The cross is the means and object of our faith. This allows the Holy Spirit to work in us producing fruit. The law could not produce fruit it only condemns as no man has ever been able to keep the law. Hence the need for a Savior.

I essence and in truth, by placing faith in the work of the cross and not our works, the Holy Spirit causes us to follow the word of God.

But here is the struggle, we are still human and in flesh bodies and it is in our flesh to be our own God. Many will not beleive me on this, but this is what happens.

Our faith by temptation or by our own flesh gets shifted from the cross and placed in what we do. I mean we even start boasting, well I do this and I do that ( this is Romans 6,7,and8). when we do this, it ties the hand of the Holy Spirit so to speak as the Holy Spirit will only work in the parameters of the cross. Then we find ourselves doing things that we don't want to do.

But millions are under doctrines that teach differently, and we go crazy, asking God why am I doing this, please help me to stop. When the fact is we are bound by sin, because we have shifted our faith. And is the reason that the cross must preached continually and why we must be in the word reading and understanding the cross.

I know this is deep and can't be explained in a couple of Paragraphs. But, when reading Romans and others of Paul's epistles where it say's faith ask yourself "faith in what".
the Law God gave to Moses is not the "Law of Moses"...

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,

Chapter 21 is a direct continuation of God speaking. There were no chapter breaks in the Hebrew, notice what GOD says to Moses...

Exo 21:1 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.

Who is thou here? Moses. Who is speaking here?

Exo 20:22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

If one reads the Pentateuch, one finds that it is God speaking, first person to Moses. Moses did not make this stuff up.

The real question is who is the LORD that spoke to Moses?

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

No one has EVER SEEN the Father, yet we read...

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Adam and Eve heard the voice of God.

Exo 33:17 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
Exo 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Moses actually SAW the LORD (not His face but His back side).

Num 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
Num 12:7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
Num 12:8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

Moses saw the LORD and spoke to and heard the LORD's voice.

Who is the LORD? The great I AM?

Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Notice the "he" is in italics? Means it was not in the original. They knew who I AM was and that is why the went backward and fell to the ground.

Christ plainly says He is the one who was known to Moses as I AM.

Who gave the Law at Mt. Sinai?

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Jesus Christ is the One who gave the Law, did He make a mistake? Did He come to correct the mistake He made?