Watching a denomination implode, mars hill seattle

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Matt1626

Guest
#1
#1
For around 10 years I have been studying denominational differences and growth rates


Everyone knows about main line denominations and their implosion, Anglicans, Methodist, baptist, Lutherans closing there doors right and left

but what has been really interesting these last 3 months is to watch mars hill in Seattle fall off a cliff probably in 12 months their numbers have been cut in half and sadly I see the majority of people who went their now go no where


any thoughts
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2
Dec 12, 2013
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#2
Matt1626 said:
For around 10 years I have been studying denominational differences and growth rates


Everyone knows about main line denominations and their implosion, Anglicans, Methodist, baptist, Lutherans closing there doors right and left

but what has been really interesting these last 3 months is to watch mars hill in Seattle fall off a cliff probably in 12 months their numbers have been cut in half and sadly I see the majority of people who went their now go no where


any thoughts
Click to expand...
Evil men and seducers will wax worse and worse and Paul said before Jesus comes and gathers the saints that two things would happen...

1. The man of sin must be revealed and
2. The complete apostasy of humanity

In order to apostate from something, you must of necessity be in it....Humanity as well as the majority of so called Christianity will apostate from the truth as the root does not run deep enough for sure!
 
Word_Swordsman

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
#3
Sep 16, 2014
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100
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#3
Matt1626 said:
For around 10 years I have been studying denominational differences and growth rates


Everyone knows about main line denominations and their implosion, Anglicans, Methodist, baptist, Lutherans closing there doors right and left

but what has been really interesting these last 3 months is to watch mars hill in Seattle fall off a cliff probably in 12 months their numbers have been cut in half and sadly I see the majority of people who went their now go no where


any thoughts
Click to expand...
As far as I can learn of it there is no evidence of a Mars Hill Church apostasy or any general congregational error. The congregation is apparently suffering from a moral disqualification of the founding pastor. The board has stated it is working toward forgiveness and restoration. The same stuff has happened many other places, only the names have changed. Jimmy Swaggart yielded to sin and fell, not submitting to a restoration plan that was offered. He has since restarted a ministry, but lacking the power he once experienced from God. Jim Bakker is another of many names. Not yielding to peer-offered restoration leaves a minister stranded without a former blessing, yet whatever gifts received from the Holy Spirit are without repeantance from God. The gifts remain without the power of God. It's a strange predicament.
1 Corinthians 9:27 (KJV) [SUP]27 [/SUP] But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


This kind of issue within the Church is serious and often misidentified. Explanations are often preferable to truth lest a congregation is scattered. Read Galatians 2 for the truth of such things, centering around this part: Galatians 2:15-18 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Paul chastised Peter, and it is proper for elders of a church to chastise a sinning pastor. Much more is required of them, that if the pastor is willing to submit to correction, they must accommodate him.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#4
Nov 24, 2012
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#4
Matt1626 said:
For around 10 years I have been studying denominational differences and growth rates


Everyone knows about main line denominations and their implosion, Anglicans, Methodist, baptist, Lutherans closing there doors right and left

but what has been really interesting these last 3 months is to watch mars hill in Seattle fall off a cliff probably in 12 months their numbers have been cut in half and sadly I see the majority of people who went their now go no where


any thoughts
Click to expand...
what's interesting is your first list are those who started as honoring the bible and then slowly went to liberal apostasy.
Mars Hill started off quite liberal as most emergents are ...built itself up and then had a quick moral collapse.
 
Yet

Yet

Banned
#6
Jan 4, 2014
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Praise God. 'Come out from among them and be ye separate says The Lord. Touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you. You will be My children and I will be your God'.
People leaving Babylonian/Romish churches. That's a good thing. Jesus wants His people back.
 
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Nick01

Senior Member
#7
Jul 15, 2013
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#7
crossnote said:
what's interesting is your first list are those who started as honoring the bible and then slowly went to liberal apostasy.
Mars Hill started off quite liberal as most emergents are ...built itself up and then had a quick moral collapse.
Click to expand...
We can call Mars Hill a lot of things, but I can't see how you can meaningfully call it liberal, or really even Emergent, in the usual sense of the words. The basic theology and soteriology at Mars Hill has basically always been pretty much straight up Reformed, and is worlds apart from anything I would call 'liberal'. I'm an Anglican (read: Episcopalian). I know what liberal is.

As for Emergent, while it might be so culturally, again, the basic theology is in another postcode to what most people claiming the Emergent label would tend to be, or at least a large proportion of the Emergent movement as usually symbolised by the likes of Rob Bell and Brian McLaren. And even at the cultural level, the culture and ecclesiology of Mars Hill has been much more conservative than most Emergent churches. You could even argue that in some respects Driscoll et al were so anti 'liberal and mainstream church' in their structures that they created the very situation they find themselves in.

Honestly, I actually thought you might have confused your Mars Hills, talking about Bell's former church in Grand Rapids, rather than Seattle.
 
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Matt1626

Guest
#8
#8
Nick01 said:
We can call Mars Hill a lot of things, but I can't see how you can meaningfully call it liberal, or really even Emergent, in the usual sense of the words. The basic theology and soteriology at Mars Hill has basically always been pretty much straight up Reformed, and is worlds apart from anything I would call 'liberal'. I'm an Anglican (read: Episcopalian). I know what liberal is.

As for Emergent, while it might be so culturally, again, the basic theology is in another postcode to what most people claiming the Emergent label would tend to be, or at least a large proportion of the Emergent movement as usually symbolised by the likes of Rob Bell and Brian McLaren. And even at the cultural level, the culture and ecclesiology of Mars Hill has been much more conservative than most Emergent churches. You could even argue that in some respects Driscoll et al were so anti 'liberal and mainstream church' in their structures that they created the very situation they find themselves in.

Honestly, I actually thought you might have confused your Mars Hills, talking about Bell's former church in Grand Rapids, rather than Seattle.
Click to expand...

I think he totally confused it
I would describe mark Driscoll as very conservative, I am probably the only one more conservative than Driscoll
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

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#9
Aug 15, 2009
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If you want to know what Driscoll is, all you have to do if investigate who the other "famous ministers" are in his circle of friends.
A good minister of Christ wouldn't be caught dead fellowshipping with or ministering with false teachers/prophets. If he is as dedicated as many believe he would know who they are & stay away from them. Light has nothing with darkness.

Whenever you're wondering how godly anyone is, if you can't determine their fruit, the fruit of those they run with will certainly give them away.:)
 
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