Scriptures Cannot be alone... Scripture is clear

[Dogknox]

Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Clearly the Bereans did NOT believe in the scriptures ALONE!!!
They listened to Paul >>AND<< they checked their "Old Testament scriptures"!
Paul was TEACHING "Christ Resurrected"! Christ Resurrected is NOT found in the "Old Testament"!

**The Bereans NEEDED Paul and his TEACHING to find truth, they NEEDED Church to arrive at truth!

The LESS...
The Less Noble people of Thessalonica; Believed in the Scriptures ALONE!!! They refused to listen to Church, the teaching of Paul!! BUT.....

But they have an excuse when they stand in front of Jesus at judgement... They can say: "We did not know we were to listen to Church; We do not have written in our Old Testament "'Listen to the Church'"!

The person living today has NO excuse for not listening to the Church they are "NOT NOBLE!!!"
We today have the "New Testament" our scriptures say; "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan"!

Pagan: A person outside of God' body!
All who believe in "Scriptures ALONE" must reject the scriptures to believe this man made TRADITION!

 

[1still_waters]

Because Paul an inspired Apostle who wrote inspired scriptures taught the Bereans scripture, believers now days can't trust in the Bible alone but must rely also on church tradition?

That's a bit of a stretch.

Since the Bereans read the OT, and listened to the inspired Apostle who wrote inspired scripture, it follows that Christians should rely on the inspired OT and inspired NT scriptures alone.<---Seems like a more reasonable conclusion.

 

[Dogknox]

Good to meet you.... BUT..
1still_waters But you forget Paul was TEACHING "Christ Resurrected" !
This comes before the Berean verse...
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.

They needed CHURCH to arrive at the truth!

1still_waters There was NO OFFICIAL New Testament for 400 years! Yes there was Paul's letters BUT...
But there were many, many phony uninspired documents floating around that claimed to also be the inspired words of God!

The world NEEDED the CHURCH!!

Think: There was NO Bibles (of any number) until the printing press; Seventeen Hundred years AFTER Jesus!
Bibles were very costly works of art only the very, very rich could own a bible!!!
MOST...
1still_waters Most people could not read until the eighteenth century!!!

The One Church Jesus established weeded out the phony manuscripts, putting only the inspired manuscripts into one book, named the bible! Church taught Jesus and salvation to the world for the first seventeen hundred years!!!! The world needed the Church to find Jesus and truth!!

Your thinking does not make sense... If man needs only the scriptures to find truth THEN...
1still_waters Then explain to me why, so many people arrive at different truths from the same scriptures?! Explain why so many claim to have the ONLY truth yet no two groups of people believe the same things!!??

The FACT there are the thousands and thousands of church groups claiming to have the ONLY truth PROVES man cannot arrive at truth by the scriptures ALONE!!!

THINK: The Constitution needs a group of men with the AUTHORITY to interpret it "The supreme court". Yet you and thousands of others THINK they can interpret the scriptures alone! The scriptures are far more complex then the Constitution!!!!!! Jesus established his church before he left with the AUTHORITY!!!

 

[Kerry]

No Paul's teaching's were Christ Crucified and explained the meaning of that crucifixion or sacrifice. What did Paul say? "I have determined to know nothing among you save Christ and Him Crucified.

 

[Dogknox]

No Paul's teaching's were Christ Crucified and explained the meaning of that crucifixion or sacrifice. What did Paul say? "I have determined to know nothing among you save Christ and Him Crucified.

Kerry Read it yourself....
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.

rise from the dead...

Kerry rise from the dead!!!! RESURRECT!!

All peoples die.. Nothing special about dying!!!!
It is the Resurrection and Jesus' words to us about; ETERNAL LIFE is the message of Paul and his CHURCH!

The Bereans believed Paul's message of ETERNAL Life in Jesus!
Paul was TEACHING >> Church was TEACHING TRUTH <<!

 

[Kerry]

Could Christ have rose from the dead unless he went to the cross first? The Resurrection was affirmation that the Father had accepted the Cross, was it not?

 

[Dogknox]

Kerry QUESTION point me to scriptures that say.... "Trust in the scriptures ALONE!"

Fact is; The ONLY reason you believe, all you need is the scriptures ALONE is because, you were TAUGHT by men all you need is the scriptures ALONE!!!

Kerry It is a MAN MADE TRADITION!!!! You have placed the salvation of your soul in the man made TRADITION of; "Scriptures are I need to find truth (Scriptures ALONE)!"

Scriptures....
Matthew 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Acts 9:31
Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace and was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it increased in numbers.

Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

 

[Dogknox]

Could Christ have rose from the dead unless he went to the cross first? The Resurrection was affirmation that the Father had accepted the Cross, was it not?

Christ had to first be BORN a Man, so he could die a man!!!

Jesus came to DIE for us, in our place, for all men!!!

All men die because of sin, all men sin!!!!!
Kerry Jesus had NO SIN so he could NOT stay dead!!!! Jesus popped up from the grave as a Cork might pop up from the bottom of a pool of water!

Jesus rose from the dead because he was sinless!
All people ADDED to the resurrected body of Jesus also will rise!!!
It is IN the RESURRECTION of Jesus that we are saved!

Dying he destroyed death!
Rising he restored life!!

 

[ThomistColin]

Because Paul an inspired Apostle who wrote inspired scriptures taught the Bereans scripture, believers now days can't trust in the Bible alone but must rely also on church tradition?

That's a bit of a stretch.

Since the Bereans read the OT, and listened to the inspired Apostle who wrote inspired scripture, it follows that Christians should rely on the inspired OT and inspired NT scriptures alone.<---Seems like a more reasonable conclusion.

To be honest, I find it odd that you can believe that St. Paul and St. Peter could be infallible on occasion because of the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but the idea that God wouldn't stop doing that is wrong.

 

[1still_waters]

Good to meet you.... BUT..
1still_waters But you forget Paul was TEACHING "Christ Resurrected" !
This comes before the Berean verse...
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.

They needed CHURCH to arrive at the truth!

1still_waters There was NO OFFICIAL New Testament for 400 years! Yes there was Paul's letters BUT...
But there were many, many phony uninspired documents floating around that claimed to also be the inspired words of God!

The world NEEDED the CHURCH!!

Think: There was NO Bibles (of any number) until the printing press; Seventeen Hundred years AFTER Jesus!
Bibles were very costly works of art only the very, very rich could own a bible!!!
MOST...
1still_waters Most people could not read until the eighteenth century!!!

The One Church Jesus established weeded out the phony manuscripts, putting only the inspired manuscripts into one book, named the bible! Church taught Jesus and salvation to the world for the first seventeen hundred years!!!! The world needed the Church to find Jesus and truth!!

Your thinking does not make sense... If man needs only the scriptures to find truth THEN...
1still_waters Then explain to me why, so many people arrive at different truths from the same scriptures?! Explain why so many claim to have the ONLY truth yet no two groups of people believe the same things!!??

The FACT there are the thousands and thousands of church groups claiming to have the ONLY truth PROVES man cannot arrive at truth by the scriptures ALONE!!!

THINK: The Constitution needs a group of men with the AUTHORITY to interpret it "The supreme court". Yet you and thousands of others THINK they can interpret the scriptures alone! The scriptures are far more complex then the Constitution!!!!!! Jesus established his church before he left with the AUTHORITY!!!

Yeah that ONE church also looked the other way for decades at pedo priests.
Sorry not gonna put much faith in that ONE CHURCH.

 

[Angela53510]

Let's see!

The Bible was completely inspired by God. Paul wrote a good portion of the New Testament under the inspiration of God.

The canon was closed by the 4th century AD. That means that anything written after that date is not inspired. (Of course there were strong reasons why the books of the Bible were included, but that is another thread!)

So why would you use the Bible to prove that we need more than just the Bible? The Bible was the last word from God.

That doesn't mean we can't learn from preachers and teachers, but that we need to be discerning, and know the Word of God ourselves to understand whether we are being fed bad doctrine or dogma.

As far as radical non-Biblical pronouncements, like the assumption of Mary, for example, I cannot understand how anyone can believe such nonsense, based on the pronouncement of a weak and fallible man. That is just blind naivety at best, and believing lies at worst.

 

[1still_waters]

To be honest, I find it odd that you can believe that St. Paul and St. Peter could be infallible on occasion because of the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but the idea that God wouldn't stop doing that is wrong.

Paul was naked, homeless, hungry, and beaten for his faith.
Peter suffered much.

I'm not going to put some Pope in his comfy robes and signet ring on the same level as Paul and Peter.

 

[ThomistColin]

Paul was naked, homeless, hungry, and beaten for his faith.
Peter suffered much.

I'm not going to put some Pope in his comfy robes and signet ring on the same level as Paul and Peter.

Most Christians haven't suffered for the faith since the 400s. So...whats your point here? That a Jesuit priest who lived among the poor, a German priest whose youth was under the Nazis, a Polish priest who suffered under communism (and the Nazis), an Italian priest who smuggled messages in and out of Rome to protect Jews, and an Italian priest who helped Jews escape through Turkey don't understand the dangers of the faith or what suffering is like? That is the last five Popes by the way.

 

[1still_waters]

Most Christians haven't suffered for the faith since the 400s. So...whats your point here? That a Jesuit priest who lived among the poor, a German priest whose youth was under the Nazis, a Polish priest who suffered under communism, an Italian priest who smuggled messages in and out of Rome to protect Jews, an Italian priest who helped Jews escape through Turkey? That is the last five Popes.

Popes do not equal people the quality of Peter and Paul.

Not even close.

 

[Blain]

Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Clearly the Bereans did NOT believe in the scriptures ALONE!!!
They listened to Paul >>AND<< they checked their "Old Testament scriptures"!
Paul was TEACHING "Christ Resurrected"! Christ Resurrected is NOT found in the "Old Testament"!

**The Bereans NEEDED Paul and his TEACHING to find truth, they NEEDED Church to arrive at truth!

The LESS...
The Less Noble people of Thessalonica; Believed in the Scriptures ALONE!!! They refused to listen to Church, the teaching of Paul!! BUT.....

But they have an excuse when they stand in front of Jesus at judgement... They can say: "We did not know we were to listen to Church; We do not have written in our Old Testament "'Listen to the Church'"!

The person living today has NO excuse for not listening to the Church they are "NOT NOBLE!!!"
We today have the "New Testament" our scriptures say; "Listen to the Church or be treated as pagan"!

Pagan: A person outside of God' body!
All who believe in "Scriptures ALONE" must reject the scriptures to believe this man made TRADITION!

...... I honestly don't understand this post here, and why are you yelling? Are you angry or something?

 

[ThomistColin]

Popes do not equal people the quality of Peter and Paul.

Not even close.

So, God stopped equipping people? God stopped blessing people?

And what quality people? Do you mean the illiterate fisherman who denied our Lord and thought that the Law must still be kept and the man who is highly responsible for the death of many Christians including St. Stephen are the only "quality people" you believe God can call into His service?

 

[1still_waters]

So, God stopped equipping people? God stopped blessing people?

And what quality people? Do you mean the illiterate fisherman who denied our Lord and thought that the Law must still be kept and the man who is highly responsible for the death of many Christians including St. Stephen are the only "quality people" you believe God can call into His service?

God equips people, he doesn't make Popes.

 

[JesusChica1991]

He calls everyone into ministry of some sort...but he doesn't call a select individual to be elected as "the leader" of the Church...because the Leader is already Christ.

 

[ThomistColin]

Every King has a Viceroy or Prime Minister, such as when David named a viceroy that existed as his herald and gave him the "keys of the kingdom." Odd that phrase exists specifically twice with the same Greek phrase used in the Septuagint and the New Testament, when David gave the keys to his viceroy and Christ gave them to Peter.

By the way, Viceroy was a continual position, passing from successor to successor.

 

[1still_waters]

Every King has a Viceroy or Prime Minister, such as when David named a viceroy that existed as his herald and gave him the "keys of the kingdom." Odd that phrase exists specifically twice with the same Greek phrase used in the Septuagint and the New Testament, when David gave the keys to his viceroy and Christ gave them to Peter.

By the way, Viceroy was a continual position, passing from successor to successor.

The pope concept is an urban legend.
It doesn't exist in scripture.