Revelation 3:14-22

[just-us-2]

There is a reason that the church, aka the body of Christ, is so ineffective, divided, apathetic, and generally detached from the reality of daily life. We are living in the last church age described in the Bible. This very sad and destructive phenomenon of not connecting the reality of Christ with the reality of life is called Laodiceanism. It comes from the name of the church at Laodicea as written about by John in Revelation 3:14-22.

14 "To the angel of the Messianic Community in Laodicea, write: 'Here is the message from the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the Ruler of God's creation:
15 "I know what you are doing: you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were either one or the other!
16 So, because you are lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth!
17 For you keep saying, 'I am rich, I have gotten rich, I don't need a thing!' You don't know that you are the one who is wretched, pitiable, poor, blind and naked!
18 My advice to you is to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich; and white clothing, so that you may be dressed and not have to be ashamed of your nakedness; and eyesalve to rub on your eyes, so that you may see.
19 As for me, I rebuke and discipline everyone I love; so exert yourselves, and turn from your sins!
20 Here, I'm standing at the door, knocking. If someone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he will eat with me.
21 I will let him who wins the victory sit with me on my throne, just as I myself also won the victory and sat down with my Father on his throne.
22 Those who have ears, let them hear what the Spirit is saying to the Messianic communities.”

The church at Laodicea looks okay at a glance – from the outside. But Laodiceanism is spiritual delusion and has some distinct attributes. The word Laodicea comes from two Greek words which mean "the [self-evident] rights of the people" or "conformity to the will [rule, custom] of the people." It is an interesting subject to read about but I don’t want to get off-track on that right now. Briefly, the fact is that it is socialism; the nice acceptable word for Laodiceanism is democracy; the not so acceptable word describing Laodiceanism is communism. Every personal thought and aspiration is judged for whether it "fits" with what everyone else thinks, also known as herd mentality. When the rubber meets the road, Laodiceanism is no more than worship of society. I can’t help but recall the words of Amos 6:1, “Woe to those who are at ease in Zion.” How could people be so deluded?

Answer: They do not have the mind of Christ as commanded in scripture.
Philippians 2:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
(NAS)
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus

But just because we are living in the church age that says, in general, the church – the body of Christ – is complacent and apathetic, certainly not possessing a zealous heart for our Savior – that does not mean we as individuals have to conform to that image. If we were to remain stuck in that position, verse 19 would not say, “so exert yourselves, and turn from your sins!”

John 14:15 15 "If you love me, you will keep my commands;”

 

[just-me]

Laodicean attributes are seen all over the church denominations of today. They seem to be more interested in entertainment and how to attract the population to their building, and then preach itching ears doctrine that makes everybody feel good. It's like being taught that we are saved in some sort of bank vault waiting to be raptured. Rather than saved from certain destruction, iniquity is justified by making continuous excuses for the human nature and then many saying that Christ killed the penalty and now God's judgment is a thing of the past and that makes us free by blaming our failures on the old covenant that was destroyed at the cross. Laodicea didn't want to preach this verse.

Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

 

[just-us-2]

It is clear that the cure for the ailment called laodiceanism is to have the “mind of Christ” as we are told in scripture here: Philippians 2:5 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.” And here: 1 Corinthians 2:15 “For who has known the mind of ADONAI? Who will counsel him? But we have the mind of the Messiah!”
It is also clear that this cure is not easy because of the epidemic proportions of its extent. Remember the old song that says, “A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down”? Throughout the ages, much more than a spoonful has been added to the medicine that cures (and prevents) Laodiceanism.

I looked in the Strong’s Concordance for where we are told to model ourselves after Christ and found where it says we are changed (supposed to be anyway!) into Christ’s very image. “So all of us, with faces unveiled, see as in a mirror the glory of the Lord; and we are being changed into his very image, from one degree of glory to the next, by ADONAI the Spirit.” 2 Corinthians 3:18

I had never noticed the mention of the veil in that scripture before so I had to follow that line. There is something very interesting about the veil over Moses face that I have never heard preached or taught. I can see great relevance to having the mind of Christ and doing what he has required us, His followers, to do. Moses covered his face with a veil, not only so the people would not be blinded by the brightness of his having been in the presence of God, but also so that the people of Israel would not see the fading brightness coming to an end. They would not have understood the fullness of the old fading away so the new could take its place at center stage, so to speak. They probably would have lost confidence in Moses thinking God’s glory had faded and possibly thought that maybe Moses wasn’t someone they should listen to anymore.

The last paragraph of the chapter, beginning with verse 14, talks about how the veil is taken away when a person turns to Adonai. Of course, that means the genuine turning to the Lord beginning with repentance and continuing with becoming like Him, abiding in Him, obeying His commands. It does not include those who have experienced a false conversion, who reject any part of the Word of God, who like to call themselves “Christian” but live any way they choose try Taking advantage of God's mercy saying He will forgive their sin, when the Word says there is no forgiveness for willful sin. So much for a simplistic, historical explanation.
2 Corinthians 13-18
13 and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.
14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.
15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;
16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

 

[Least]

Amen Just-us-two,

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

 

[just-us-2]

Amen Just-us-two,

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Amen sister! It is much like a big Christmas present when I see that someone else sees the same truth as I do! It is a like a big serving of my favorite 'comfort food' without the fattening factor!

 

[royalscot]

It is clear that the cure for the ailment called laodiceanism is to have the “mind of Christ” as we are told in scripture here: Philippians 2:5 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.” And here: 1 Corinthians 2:15 “For who has known the mind of ADONAI? Who will counsel him? But we have the mind of the Messiah!”
It is also clear that this cure is not easy because of the epidemic proportions of its extent. Remember the old song that says, “A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down”? Throughout the ages, much more than a spoonful has been added to the medicine that cures (and prevents) Laodiceanism.

I looked in the Strong’s Concordance for where we are told to model ourselves after Christ and found where it says we are changed (supposed to be anyway!) into Christ’s very image. “So all of us, with faces unveiled, see as in a mirror the glory of the Lord; and we are being changed into his very image, from one degree of glory to the next, by ADONAI the Spirit.” 2 Corinthians 3:18

I had never noticed the mention of the veil in that scripture before so I had to follow that line. There is something very interesting about the veil over Moses face that I have never heard preached or taught. I can see great relevance to having the mind of Christ and doing what he has required us, His followers, to do. Moses covered his face with a veil, not only so the people would not be blinded by the brightness of his having been in the presence of God, but also so that the people of Israel would not see the fading brightness coming to an end. They would not have understood the fullness of the old fading away so the new could take its place at center stage, so to speak. They probably would have lost confidence in Moses thinking God’s glory had faded and possibly thought that maybe Moses wasn’t someone they should listen to anymore.

The last paragraph of the chapter, beginning with verse 14, talks about how the veil is taken away when a person turns to Adonai. Of course, that means the genuine turning to the Lord beginning with repentance and continuing with becoming like Him, abiding in Him, obeying His commands. It does not include those who have experienced a false conversion, who reject any part of the Word of God, who like to call themselves “Christian” but live any way they choose try Taking advantage of God's mercy saying He will forgive their sin, when the Word says there is no forgiveness for willful sin. So much for a simplistic, historical explanation.
2 Corinthians 13-18
13 and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.
14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.
15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;
16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

these churches are in turkey. all 7 in revs.

when was rev, read as wrote. with let them, that have an ear etc hear what is being said to etc.

 

[psychomom]

i wanted to follow up on that thought from Phil 2. (v 1-11)

Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion,
make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.

Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;
do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

it seems, to me, at least, that we are being adjured to look to the needs of others.
to become the servant of all in humility, just as our Lord did.

isn't it a pastoral letter written to a church going through difficulties?
it seems they, like we, were having trouble looking out for others before themselves...
and we obey God by actively caring for one another.

thoughts?

 

[Mem]

We should love others more than ourselves, yes, but we should not love others more than we love God.

 

[psychomom]

We should love others more than ourselves, yes, but we should not love others more than we love God.

natch!

 

[just-us-2]

i wanted to follow up on that thought from Phil 2. (v 1-11)

Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion,
make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.

Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;
do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

it seems, to me, at least, that we are being adjured to look to the needs of others.
to become the servant of all in humility, just as our Lord did.

isn't it a pastoral letter written to a church going through difficulties?
it seems they, like we, were having trouble looking out for others before themselves...
and we obey God by actively caring for one another.

thoughts?

Thank you for your comments – I really appreciate your input.
Philippians 2:5 was the verse that first came to my mind when I started thinking about this!
Then I started studying and found the veil passage and detoured a bit.

You posed a question I didn’t know the answer to so I had to look it up – “isn't it a pastoral letter written to a church going through difficulties?” I looked in Holman’s Bible Dictionary and found a pretty detailed article. (I looked online to see if there is a digital version and found this one: Philippians - Holman Bible Dictionary - Bible Dictionary - StudyLight.org ) In chapter 3 the letter seems to reveal a problem brewing so you are probably right about your evaluation of the book of Philippians.

I went back to look at the section on chapter 2 because of the scripture about having the Mind of Christ, and found this interesting tidbit:
“Philippians 2:6-11 is known as the kenosis passage (from the Greek word translated “emptied” in Philippians 2:7 RSV). The language and structure of the passage have convinced most commentators that Paul was quoting a hymn which was already in use in the church. The purpose of the pre-Pauline hymn was probably to teach the believer about the nature and work of Christ. Prehyexhyishytence, incarnation, passion, resurrection, and exhyhaltation are all summarized in a masterful fashion. In the context of Philippians, however, the kenosis passage is used to highlight the humility and selfless service demonstrated by Jesus, whose example the Christian is to follow. See Kenosis .
Paul was concerned that the Philippians demonstrate the reality of their Christian profession in action. Neither the grumbling so characteristic of Israel in the wilderness nor the perversity of a world that does not know God should characterize the church. Paul had sacrificed himself to engender true faith in the Philippians. His desire, for them and for himself, was that he be able to rejoice that his sacrifice was not in vain (Philippians 2:12-18 ).”
An old hymn!

 

[JesusLives]

18 My advice to you is to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich; and white clothing, so that you may be dressed and not have to be ashamed of your nakedness; and eyesalve to rub on your eyes, so that you may see.

There is HOPE written in this Revelation 3 passage in the verse above....

We are instructed to buy gold refined by fire....would you not think that this is a testing of our faith in God? Also to buy white clothing and would not this be the righteousness of Jesus that covers us? To buy eyesalve so that our eyes might be opened to God's truth and the things that are going on around us to WAKE US UP....

We need to buy these things as we are instructed and the only way to buy them is praying for the Holy Spirit to come into our lives so that we can be refined, clothed and Awakened from our lukewarm state and become mighty workers in the cause of furthering God's Kingdom by spreading the gospel message alerting people to the fact of Jesus soon return and to repent and get our hearts right so we will be able to meet our God.... It is high time for us to AWAKE and let others know that Jesus is soon to return.

That's my take on this passage... to not stay in the lukewarm state but to follow the instructions given to us and to AWAKE and get to WORK with the Holy Spirits help...

I promise that I am not shouting just trying to get the point across....

 

[just-us-2]

18 My advice to you is to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich; and white clothing, so that you may be dressed and not have to be ashamed of your nakedness; and eyesalve to rub on your eyes, so that you may see.

There is HOPE written in this Revelation 3 passage in the verse above....

We are instructed to buy gold refined by fire....would you not think that this is a testing of our faith in God? Also to buy white clothing and would not this be the righteousness of Jesus that covers us? To buy eyesalve so that our eyes might be opened to God's truth and the things that are going on around us to WAKE US UP....

We need to buy these things as we are instructed and the only way to buy them is praying for the Holy Spirit to come into our lives so that we can be refined, clothed and Awakened from our lukewarm state and become mighty workers in the cause of furthering God's Kingdom by spreading the gospel message alerting people to the fact of Jesus soon return and to repent and get our hearts right so we will be able to meet our God.... It is high time for us to AWAKE and let others know that Jesus is soon to return.

That's my take on this passage... to not stay in the lukewarm state but to follow the instructions given to us and to AWAKE and get to WORK with the Holy Spirits help...

I promise that I am not shouting just trying to get the point across....

I think you are correct. I still believe that just because we are living in the church age that says, in general, the church – the body of Christ – is complacent and apathetic, certainly not possessing a zealous heart for our Savior – that does not mean we as individuals have to conform to that image. If we were to remain stuck in that position, verse 19 would not say, “so exert yourselves, and turn from your sins!”

 

[GodIsSalvation]

I am just kinda curious because I have seen similar claims before;

Where does it say the 7 Letters to the 7 Churches are as Ages or periods of time?

To be upfront, I personally do not think that Ages are being described. Though indeed, for those to whom it applies the answer to Laodicea is to be zealous therefore.

 

[john832]

I am just kinda curious because I have seen similar claims before;

Where does it say the 7 Letters to the 7 Churches are as Ages or periods of time?

To be upfront, I personally do not think that Ages are being described. Though indeed, for those to whom it applies the answer to Laodicea is to be zealous therefore.

I do.

(ten characters)

 

[GodIsSalvation]

I do.

(ten characters)

Well could you explain to me how you have reached the conclusion the 7 Letters are in reference to Ages?

 

[just-us-2]

I am just kinda curious because I have seen similar claims before;

Where does it say the 7 Letters to the 7 Churches are as Ages or periods of time?

To be upfront, I personally do not think that Ages are being described. Though indeed, for those to whom it applies the answer to Laodicea is to be zealous therefore.

I do.

(ten characters)

Deuteronomy 19:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

I agree. I guess that establishes that.

Seriously, what about today? Much of the prophecy in the Bible has the characteristic of "duality" - pertinent to the time in which it was written and these end days...the church of Laodicea...how about that! Looking at world history, things match.

Proverbs 19:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Deuteronomy 19:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

I agree. I guess that establishes that.

Seriously, what about today? Much of the prophecy in the Bible has the characteristic of "duality" - pertinent to the time in which it was written and these end days...the church of Laodicea...how about that! Looking at world history, things match.

Proverbs 19:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.

Lol the catch is that you have to have witnessed John receiving the Revelation for you to establish such matter.

I do believe Revelation. I just merely do not think the 7 Letters is in reference to Ages. I believe John was told to write 7 Letters to 7 Churches over which are 7 Angels.

 

[john832]

Lol the catch is that you have to have witnessed John receiving the Revelation for you to establish such matter.

I do believe Revelation. I just merely do not think the 7 Letters is in reference to Ages. I believe John was told to write 7 Letters to 7 Churches over which are 7 Angels.

And you are entitled to believe what you want to. I see it differently.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.

Notice that verse 1 of chapter 2 launches into the messages to THE SEVEN CHURCHES?

These the only churches in existence at this time? What about Corinth? What about Rome? Thessalonica? Philippi? These are not THE churches?

 

[JimmieD]

Seriously, what about today? Much of the prophecy in the Bible has the characteristic of "duality" - pertinent to the time in which it was written and these end days...the church of Laodicea...how about that! Looking at world history, things match.

Where do you find this principle of "duality?" Sure, there are things that can be learned from the 7 churches of Asia Minor (which is why John repeatedly tells the individual churches in Asia Minor to read what's said to the others), but there is no necessary one-to-one correspondence to a broad concept of church today.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

And you are entitled to believe what you want to. I see it differently.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.

Notice that verse 1 of chapter 2 launches into the messages to THE SEVEN CHURCHES?

These the only churches in existence at this time? What about Corinth? What about Rome? Thessalonica? Philippi? These are not THE churches?

It's not about being entitled or not to an opinion. It is merely about what is written. This is a good verse indeed of which was on my mind for why I do not think the 7 Letters are about Ages for it is clearly written what each sign means in Revelation.

To answer your myriad questions it seems to me John was writing to the 7 Angels of the 7 Churches in the 7 Letters.