SHALL WEAR OUT THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH

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ELECT

Guest
#1
Daniel 7:25King James Version (KJV)

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Who is the he ?

How does he change laws and times ?

What are these laws and times that will be changed ?

When will they change ?

What is time times and dividing of times ?
 

Markum1972

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2013
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#2
Daniel 7:25King James Version (KJV)
What is time times and dividing of times ?
3 1/2 years or 1260 days. time = 1 year, times = 2 years, and dividing of time = 1/2 year

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
 
S

sassylady

Guest
#3
He is the anti Christ; those who follow laws and times are the Jewish people.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#4
He is the anti Christ; those who follow laws and times are the Jewish people.
Nope. This is abbreviated, you need to do your own study but...

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Notice the last half of the verse? Elements of what? Judaism? No, the world.

Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

Judaism knew God, they did not recognize Christ when He came.

Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

What were they returning to? Weak and beggarly elements of what?

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Who was Paul addressing here?

Galatia[edit]

"Paul's letter is addressed "to the churches of Galatia" (Galatians 1:2), but the location of these churches is a matter of debate. A minority of scholars have argued that the "Galatia" is an ethnic reference to a Celtic people living in northern Asia Minor, but most agree that it is a geographical reference to the Roman province in central Asia Minor, which had been settled by immigrant Celts in the 270s BC and retained Gaulish features of culture and language in Paul's day." - Wikipedia

Paul was not addressing Judah, he was addressing someone else.

Now read verse 10...

Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

These are not Jews observing Judaism, these are those who are of the world in Asia Minor observing the weak and beggarly elements of the world, not Judaism.
 
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ChristIsGod

Guest
#5
He is the anti Christ; those who follow laws and times are the Jewish people.
He is asking about the antiChrist, but was the rest of your answer, what you believe from Dan 7, Sis?

I'm just thinking, in order to please all the religions of the world - which he does [except the remnant of both Jews & Christians - some saved AT His appearing, that haven't taken the mark, nor worshiped the beast, nor his image] -- then he would have to have a hodge-podge of beliefs wrapped into one ... too many new agers, atheists, and so forth have to buy into his stuff.
Isn't that possible?

I was reading about the many calendars that have been and are being considered to replace what we have now. Interesting as well.
 
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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#6
He is asking about the antiChrist, but was the rest of your answer, what you believe from Dan 7, Sis?

I'm just thinking, in order to please all the religions of the world - which he does [except the remnant of both Jews & Christians - some saved AT His appearing, that haven't taken the mark, nor worshiped the beast, nor his image] -- then he would have to have a hodge-podge of beliefs wrapped into one ... too many new agers, atheists, and so forth have to buy into his stuff.
Isn't that possible?

I was reading about the many calendars that have been and are being considered to replace what we have now. Interesting as well.
Just out of curiosity, who is proposing these calendars?
 
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ChristIsGod

Guest
#7
Hi Brother. I started researching why on earth do we have this calendar based upon the names of Roman and mythical gods/planet names etc and this was a few years back, but it was mainly just on wikipedia. If memory serves me correctly, one of those that were considering 30 day months only was also the UN, besides others. I don't have time to do that search just now - but I'll try to tonight.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#8
Hi Brother. I started researching why on earth do we have this calendar based upon the names of Roman and mythical gods/planet names etc and this was a few years back, but it was mainly just on wikipedia. If memory serves me correctly, one of those that were considering 30 day months only was also the UN, besides others. I don't have time to do that search just now - but I'll try to tonight.
Thanks.

I have structured my life around the Hebrew calendar. I have to use the Gregorian calendar to function, but I use it in an ancillary fashion. My life revolves around three seasons...

Deu 16:16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:

Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#9
He is the anti Christ; those who follow laws and times are the Jewish people.
I think I am slipping, I missed this scripture in my previous post. The Jews do not observe times...

Lev 19:26 Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

And Paul right well knew this.
 

Markum1972

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2013
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#10
Daniel 7:25King James Version (KJV)
Who is the he ?
He is the abomination that brings desolation, the man of perdition, the Antichrist.

Daniel 9:27 "And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate."

Matthew 24:
15 “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand),16 then let them that be in Judea flee unto the mountains.
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Abomination = Idol[/FONT]

2 Thessalonians 2:
3 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Let no man deceive you by any means, for that Day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, [/FONT]4 who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sitteth as God in the temple of God, showing himself to be God.

that man: What man? Where was he mentioned before in scripture? The abomination of desolation. The idol that brings forth desolation.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#11
Christ tells us to watch for this event at the end of the age also. He says to look to Daniel for understanding.

There is coming a wonder working, miracle producing, fire calling down from heaven man that will deceive the world and cause it to follow a political/military leader called the Beast...

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

He will appear to be representing Christ (the Lamb) but in actuality be representing the Devil (dragon)...

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#12
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints:
here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of
her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#13
Further understanding comes from chapter 17...

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Blasphemous doctrines full her cup.

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

she has protesting daughters.

Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

She will incite persecution and martyrdom of God's true saints.

Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

She rides the Beast during seven revivals, the last one being comprised of ten kings or nations...

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

this occurs at the return of Christ...

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Note the Beast and False Prophet are burned to death in the Lake of Fire but the armies are slaughtered by the sword?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#14
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

??? Certainly not just the drying up of a river, no modern army is hindered by a river. There is something else going on here.

Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Note that the armies are gathered at Har Megiddo, but the battle actually takes place in the valley of Jehoshaphat.

Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

these armies are gathered to do battle but turn against Christ as He is returning.

Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#15
I should insert this in the above post around the gathering of armies at Har Megiddo...

Dan 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#16
He is the anti Christ; those who follow laws and times are the Jewish people.
the anti Christ is not Jewish or Israeli.

AN OBSERVER OF TIMES

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards.
Its speaking of the occult. It is Not about following sabbath days.


GAL.4
[10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.
[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

DEUT.18
[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his
daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination,
OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,
[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits,
or a wizard, or a necromancer.

2 CHR.33
[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom:
ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used
witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards:
he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

LEV.19
[26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood:
neither shall ye use enchantment, (NOR OBSERVE TIMES).

[30] (YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS), and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

You shall not observe times, BUT you shall keep my sabbaths says the Lord.
 

Markum1972

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2013
1,165
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#17
Daniel 7:25King James Version (KJV)

How does he change laws and times ?

What are these laws and times that will be changed ?

Revelation 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him (Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon); and he causeth the earth and them that dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Daniel 3:4 Then a herald cried aloud: “To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,5 that at the time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up.6 And whoso falleth not down and worshipeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace [note this matches the destruction of Babylon in Revelation 18:8].”

Revelation 13:
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads,17 that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.


 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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#18
Revelation 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him (Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon); and he causeth the earth and them that dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.


State worship is nothing new. The German people were enthralled with Hitler and the German state. So were the Romans and so are some who call themselves patriots today. Being patriotic and worshipping the state are two different things.

Daniel 3:4 Then a herald cried aloud: “To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,5 that at the time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up.6 And whoso falleth not down and worshipeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace [note this matches the destruction of Babylon in Revelation 18:8].”

Revelation 13:
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads,17 that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.




When I was posting the rant above, the same thought came to me about king N. but my posts were long enough without it. Thanks for posting this up.
 
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ChristIsGod

Guest
#19
Just out of curiosity, who is proposing these calendars?
As it turns out, I was able to look for that page I mentioned Calendar reform - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - and under 'perennial calendars' you'll find the one that the UN was/is? considering .... but the Christians, Jews and Muslims aren't crazy about it - if you click on the link from this page above about it ... but they could care less.

BUT - this led me to go link to link off of wikipedia researching the 'ISO' as an NGO and that led to this Geneva International - because there's some things they'd need to work out between the World Season [Achelis] Calendar and how the ISO has worked their math to get their numbering system to jive with any calendar reforms or vice versa probably.
Which then led me to a number of links to articles and News feeds from them and one to the UN Office of Geneva and an article saying they/we need to get rid of private schools - though that has nothing to do with Calendars ... I just want to tell you that I've been on quite a trip today around the world powers that be. My head's filled up right now. I knew we were already in the NWO and have been for quite some time, but I haven't ventured into that much research in a while because of being busy with family. Had to get my sea legs back again. Around the world in less than 2 hours - yep, quite a spin and wake up call to get on again, keeping watch - only as He used that term 'watch'.

It's just like doing a true Bible study - link to link to link is the same as cross-referencing to The Max.

Your posts are looking good from what I've just cruised by.

Exedrin time but Thanks for the prompting!
 
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peaceand

Guest
#20
Daniel 7:25King James Version (KJV)

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Who is the he ?

How does he change laws and times ?

What are these laws and times that will be changed ?

When will they change ?

What is time times and dividing of times ?
I think he's the antichrist.