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Full disclosure there is a faction here espousing the idea that true regenerate christians are not sinners. They say they sin at times, but they should not be called sinners and refuse to call themselves sinners. Thus, I'm asking the question:
Are we christians sinners?
Are we saints?
Or are we both?
Now the answer is clear in my view. Paul was certainly a saint (a set apart individual to God) but also called himself the chief of sinners and a wretched man. He had no trouble reconciling both titles.
Notice that in both the above cases Paul is speaking in the present tense. I am a sinner, wretched man that I am. Obviously he had no problem calling himself both and neither do I.
Now to stave off a few coming accusations, I'm not an advocate of licentiousness. I don't believe that true faith exists without works. I believe also that reckless habitual sin on the part of professing believers may be an indication of a lack of true faith and an unregenerate state. Sin is never okay, and the Bible condemns licentiousness. I wanted to clarify that, because that's the main accusation this small group throws out against anyone claiming they are a sinner in the manner Paul did. Just recently one told me that a claim to sinnership is a denial of my sainthood. I of course refute that with Paul's words quoted above.
My hope in this thread is clarity. I want it to bring light not heat. I also want to expose what I think is a cultic movement on these boards and I pull no punches about that. I am open to correction on that as well, if I'm going too far with that, but that's my belief at present. I'm also concerned that some younger brothers on this board are getting caught up with these false teachers (again, my view, and I'm open to correction). I'd invite critiques on how far I'm taking this as well.
An article that might be helpful for further reading:
Are Christians sinners, saints, or both?
What say you?
Are we christians sinners?
Are we saints?
Or are we both?
Now the answer is clear in my view. Paul was certainly a saint (a set apart individual to God) but also called himself the chief of sinners and a wretched man. He had no trouble reconciling both titles.
Rom. 7:24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?
1Tim. 1:15 Here is a trustworthy sayinga that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.
1Tim. 1:15 Here is a trustworthy sayinga that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.
Notice that in both the above cases Paul is speaking in the present tense. I am a sinner, wretched man that I am. Obviously he had no problem calling himself both and neither do I.
Now to stave off a few coming accusations, I'm not an advocate of licentiousness. I don't believe that true faith exists without works. I believe also that reckless habitual sin on the part of professing believers may be an indication of a lack of true faith and an unregenerate state. Sin is never okay, and the Bible condemns licentiousness. I wanted to clarify that, because that's the main accusation this small group throws out against anyone claiming they are a sinner in the manner Paul did. Just recently one told me that a claim to sinnership is a denial of my sainthood. I of course refute that with Paul's words quoted above.
My hope in this thread is clarity. I want it to bring light not heat. I also want to expose what I think is a cultic movement on these boards and I pull no punches about that. I am open to correction on that as well, if I'm going too far with that, but that's my belief at present. I'm also concerned that some younger brothers on this board are getting caught up with these false teachers (again, my view, and I'm open to correction). I'd invite critiques on how far I'm taking this as well.
An article that might be helpful for further reading:
Are Christians sinners, saints, or both?
What say you?
