About a week ago I had a real strong faith in Jesus and the bible...I spent most of my time reading about Jesus. My life revolved around Christianity...For about a week now I been questioning the bible...I ran into bible scholars saying that the new testament has been change or added on ...Mark, Mathew, John were not real witnesses of Jesus Christ....The trinity is so hard to explain because Jesus wasn't God or the son of God. A Muslim man said that the quaran been around for 1400 years and had not changed but our bible has, and everything we believe is in the Quaran except for the contradictions of the new testament. This was a formal Christian who converted to Islam. Anyway can someone tell me what's going on with me? I feel like I'm losing my mind and my salvation through Jesus Christ....did the holy spirit leave me or what?
help
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Hey jruiz,
Important thing to keep in mind as you go through this - doubt is normal. Do not fear doubt, but use it as an opportunity to learn and to ponder.
Thankfully, there are a lot of really smart Christian people who have thought a lot about these sorts of things. I myself have spent a lot of time (and some money!) on exploring the field of textual criticism, and trying to get to the bottom of the Bible, how it came together, and whether it can be trusted. I am happy to answer specific questions on that front, but I fear if I try and tackle everything at once, it'll be super long and unreadable and unhelpful
One small comment on the Qur'an, though - the problem with Islamic textual criticism is that it doesn't exist in the same way as biblical textual criticism, there are precious few Islamic textual critics, and many Muslims believe that a critical view of the construction of the Qur'an is not required and should not be pursued on purely theological grounds.
A key difference in biblical and quranic textual studies is the actual histories of the text. Early on in the history of Islam, a number of divergent texts of the Qur'an were destroyed by a caliph named Uthmann for theological reasons (in particular, the need to have only one 'perfect' text), in what is know generally as the Uthmannic recension. This did not happen to the Bible - we have a wide variety of texts, and there was never any concerted Christian attempt to destroy divergent manuscripts. This puts the two studies on different footings - we can never be certain of what the original Quranic text was without trusting that Uthman got it right. We can get closer in biblical studies, because we have earlier and more widespread textual witnesses.
In general, though, we can actually see where things were changed in biblical manuscripts, because they still exist and we can study them. The changes are, by an overwhelming majority, differences in spelling or clear transcription errors, many of which cannot even be translated into English. Those that are meaningful can be counted on your fingers, and almost all of those can readily be identified as genuine or non-genuine. The problem is not as big as Muslims often make out, and their overemphasis is typically based on their belief that the true word of God must have always been preserved perfectly (word for word), which is not the Christian understanding. The purity of the Qur'an, in any case, is somewhat artificial because of recessional activity.
I don't know what reading level you would consider yourself to be at, but a fantastic book to read would be Dr Richard Bauckam's 'Jesus & the Eyewitnesses', which deals with some of the issues you've raised. It's at a fairly scholarly level, but not overly technical. Very dense, though, so if you do have a go at it, prepare to be in for the long haul
Important thing to keep in mind as you go through this - doubt is normal. Do not fear doubt, but use it as an opportunity to learn and to ponder.
Thankfully, there are a lot of really smart Christian people who have thought a lot about these sorts of things. I myself have spent a lot of time (and some money!) on exploring the field of textual criticism, and trying to get to the bottom of the Bible, how it came together, and whether it can be trusted. I am happy to answer specific questions on that front, but I fear if I try and tackle everything at once, it'll be super long and unreadable and unhelpful
One small comment on the Qur'an, though - the problem with Islamic textual criticism is that it doesn't exist in the same way as biblical textual criticism, there are precious few Islamic textual critics, and many Muslims believe that a critical view of the construction of the Qur'an is not required and should not be pursued on purely theological grounds.
A key difference in biblical and quranic textual studies is the actual histories of the text. Early on in the history of Islam, a number of divergent texts of the Qur'an were destroyed by a caliph named Uthmann for theological reasons (in particular, the need to have only one 'perfect' text), in what is know generally as the Uthmannic recension. This did not happen to the Bible - we have a wide variety of texts, and there was never any concerted Christian attempt to destroy divergent manuscripts. This puts the two studies on different footings - we can never be certain of what the original Quranic text was without trusting that Uthman got it right. We can get closer in biblical studies, because we have earlier and more widespread textual witnesses.
In general, though, we can actually see where things were changed in biblical manuscripts, because they still exist and we can study them. The changes are, by an overwhelming majority, differences in spelling or clear transcription errors, many of which cannot even be translated into English. Those that are meaningful can be counted on your fingers, and almost all of those can readily be identified as genuine or non-genuine. The problem is not as big as Muslims often make out, and their overemphasis is typically based on their belief that the true word of God must have always been preserved perfectly (word for word), which is not the Christian understanding. The purity of the Qur'an, in any case, is somewhat artificial because of recessional activity.
I don't know what reading level you would consider yourself to be at, but a fantastic book to read would be Dr Richard Bauckam's 'Jesus & the Eyewitnesses', which deals with some of the issues you've raised. It's at a fairly scholarly level, but not overly technical. Very dense, though, so if you do have a go at it, prepare to be in for the long haul
G
Deception is the most powerful weapon that the enemy can use against you. The first thing he said to Adam and Eve was “Did God really say?”. He is the master manipulator and he will always sow doubt but we have to know the Bible to resist him. That is what Jesus did. When scripture was quoted out of context he rebuked him and gave him the counter argument with the correct verses.
Hosea 4:6 “My people are destroyed through a lack of knowledge”
Regarding your Muslim comment; please ask this guy in what language the original Bible was written. When he tells you in Hebrew please ask him why the Koran is different from what was originally written in Hebrew. They lie and manipulate you to join their religion. Stay clear from people like that if you are that frail in the Lord.
Hosea 4:6 “My people are destroyed through a lack of knowledge”
Regarding your Muslim comment; please ask this guy in what language the original Bible was written. When he tells you in Hebrew please ask him why the Koran is different from what was originally written in Hebrew. They lie and manipulate you to join their religion. Stay clear from people like that if you are that frail in the Lord.
Just don't listen to people. Study the Bible history for yourself. Did you know, that the British museum of history, has many Bible artifacts on display ? History that is secular to the Bible, but backs many events up in the Bible.
Don't quit before you get a change to learn of all these things. Don't listen to peoples doubts, listen to God's words in study. In time you'll start to understand what is going on. If you study .Pray to God for truth. Tell Him you don't understand and keep and open mind to God. Not the people you been listening to. Your looking for, negative, without asking why. If you continue to go about study this way, then you'll get pushed away naturally you'll fulfill that yourself .
Don't quit before you get a change to learn of all these things. Don't listen to peoples doubts, listen to God's words in study. In time you'll start to understand what is going on. If you study .Pray to God for truth. Tell Him you don't understand and keep and open mind to God. Not the people you been listening to. Your looking for, negative, without asking why. If you continue to go about study this way, then you'll get pushed away naturally you'll fulfill that yourself .
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The Bible hasn't changed. The modern doctrine of today has. True salvation incorporates all of God's words. not just part of it. The carnal mind is at work and that mindset is being taken advantage of by the adversary. Compare scripture with scripture, Spiritual with Spiritual. If the Bible seems to contradict itself then we have it wrong. Nothing in the Bible has been made void. It's all in relation one thing to another. Pray for God's direction in everything you read and do, and don't be discouraged, He will give you understanding according to what He knows you can comprehend, and handle.
Isaiah 28:8-13
8 All tables are covered with vomit and feces, not a single place is clean.
9 Can no one be taught anything? Can no one understand the message? Must one teach barely weaned toddlers, babies just taken from the breast,
10 so that one has to use nursery rhymes? Precept by precept, precept by precept, line by line, line by line, a little here, a little there.
11 So with stammering lips, in a foreign accent, [ADONAI] will speak to this people.
12 He once told this people, "It's time to rest, the exhausted can rest, now you can relax" - but they wouldn't listen.
13 So now the word of ADONAI for them comes "precept by precept, precept by precept, line by line, line by line, a little here, a little there," so that when they walk, they stumble backward, and are broken, trapped and captured!
Isaiah 28:8-13
8 All tables are covered with vomit and feces, not a single place is clean.
9 Can no one be taught anything? Can no one understand the message? Must one teach barely weaned toddlers, babies just taken from the breast,
10 so that one has to use nursery rhymes? Precept by precept, precept by precept, line by line, line by line, a little here, a little there.
11 So with stammering lips, in a foreign accent, [ADONAI] will speak to this people.
12 He once told this people, "It's time to rest, the exhausted can rest, now you can relax" - but they wouldn't listen.
13 So now the word of ADONAI for them comes "precept by precept, precept by precept, line by line, line by line, a little here, a little there," so that when they walk, they stumble backward, and are broken, trapped and captured!
K
Jruiz Bible texts have been studied like no other book.The historicity of the Bible has been proven again and again,not so with the quran . This link is to a book called Evidence that Demands a Verdict and will help you with anything you need answered.It talks about how we got the Bible and its historicity and the historicity of Jesus.Its a great book if your faith is in doubt.
S
I agree. Sometimes you need to separate yourself from many people and teachings as possible and get alone daily with God Himself. Even if it may mean leaving church for awhile. The Holy Spirit is our teacher, and once you know you have gotten something from Him, it will not matter what other people say/teach.
Maybe your mission from the Lordis to win that friend back to Christ. In any war, a battle gone bad for you demands taking the offense, diluting the damages, retaking lost resources. Seize the moment to overcome rather than succumb to the enemy's victory that day.
It is time you learned all you can how a Christian can stand up to any Muslim with truth without starting another battle. Don't lose the chance to minister to them, but don't retain contact with one that won't listen and engage in fair discussion of facts.
My favorite resource besides the Bible is Answering Islam, A Christian-Muslim Dialog and Apologetic
Here's a simple explanation from them: The Answering Islam site is mainly designed for a dialog with Muslims, but many Christians read it as well and learn about some important approaches, topics and arguments. If you are a Christian you might read in this site not because you stumbled upon it by chance but since Islam has for some reason become a challenge in your own life whether in your immediate family or through becoming friends with a Muslim in your workplace or neighborhood. In any case, you can find some dialog-tested answers to many claims, challenges and questions in articles that are placed here for you to learn about the Muslim arguments as well as about informed answers that Christians can give to them.
If you could go though that site with your friend together there's a good chance he will reconsider. Learn the challenges to Muslims and use them. The whole experience will sharpen your knowledge and use of the Bible for evangelism.
The Quran is not a spiritual book, definitely not at all like the Bible. It is more of a manual, like what a soldier is given upon entering the army. Muslims are not able to comprehend the Bible correctly because it is spiritual scripture and is spiritually. discerned. So trying to compare the message of the Quran to the Bible message is like comparing apples to bananas. Their "allah" is nothing like our Father God who loves humanity. Our God gave his only begotten Son to die for us w3hile we were still sinners. "Allah" (not a personal, living being) would never consider that. Our loving God doesn't tell us to kill or enslave everyone who won't obey Him, but will by necessity sanction limited all out war between nations even as the angels war in the heavenlies, for the preservation of a godly nation. But that's taking a warlike approach, useful when it is obvious the Muslim will not be reasonable. If you are still friends with the convert to Islam, and will talk about it, then engage by the power of God in you to win that soul.
It is time you learned all you can how a Christian can stand up to any Muslim with truth without starting another battle. Don't lose the chance to minister to them, but don't retain contact with one that won't listen and engage in fair discussion of facts.
My favorite resource besides the Bible is Answering Islam, A Christian-Muslim Dialog and Apologetic
Here's a simple explanation from them: The Answering Islam site is mainly designed for a dialog with Muslims, but many Christians read it as well and learn about some important approaches, topics and arguments. If you are a Christian you might read in this site not because you stumbled upon it by chance but since Islam has for some reason become a challenge in your own life whether in your immediate family or through becoming friends with a Muslim in your workplace or neighborhood. In any case, you can find some dialog-tested answers to many claims, challenges and questions in articles that are placed here for you to learn about the Muslim arguments as well as about informed answers that Christians can give to them.
If you could go though that site with your friend together there's a good chance he will reconsider. Learn the challenges to Muslims and use them. The whole experience will sharpen your knowledge and use of the Bible for evangelism.
The Quran is not a spiritual book, definitely not at all like the Bible. It is more of a manual, like what a soldier is given upon entering the army. Muslims are not able to comprehend the Bible correctly because it is spiritual scripture and is spiritually. discerned. So trying to compare the message of the Quran to the Bible message is like comparing apples to bananas. Their "allah" is nothing like our Father God who loves humanity. Our God gave his only begotten Son to die for us w3hile we were still sinners. "Allah" (not a personal, living being) would never consider that. Our loving God doesn't tell us to kill or enslave everyone who won't obey Him, but will by necessity sanction limited all out war between nations even as the angels war in the heavenlies, for the preservation of a godly nation. But that's taking a warlike approach, useful when it is obvious the Muslim will not be reasonable. If you are still friends with the convert to Islam, and will talk about it, then engage by the power of God in you to win that soul.
The enemy hits u hard after you discover the Truth of Christ. If you hadn't, you wouldn't be going through this.
Funny how the devil never told me I was lost when I was lost but he began saying to me, after I got saved, 'you're not saved'.
Sassy is right. This thing is between you and Jesus. Spend time with Him in prayer. He'll clear your head. Hell give you peace and you will know 'that He is the One' as John the Baptist found out.
Simon Peter answered, "You r the Christ, the Son of the living God". (How did Peter figure that one out?) And Jesus said to him " blessed r u Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood(man and his ideas and opinions and all his books) did not reveal this unto you, but My Father which is in heaven...."
Jruiz, you don't have a thing to fret about.
Now let's clench the deal with:
"Trust in The Lord with all your heart and lean NOT unto your own understanding(philosophies of men and their millions of teachings). In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths(of understanding)." Proverbs 3:5
and: "but the anointing you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as His anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit, just as it has taught you, remain in Him". 1John 2:27
Funny how the devil never told me I was lost when I was lost but he began saying to me, after I got saved, 'you're not saved'.
Sassy is right. This thing is between you and Jesus. Spend time with Him in prayer. He'll clear your head. Hell give you peace and you will know 'that He is the One' as John the Baptist found out.
Simon Peter answered, "You r the Christ, the Son of the living God". (How did Peter figure that one out?) And Jesus said to him " blessed r u Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood(man and his ideas and opinions and all his books) did not reveal this unto you, but My Father which is in heaven...."
Jruiz, you don't have a thing to fret about.
Now let's clench the deal with:
"Trust in The Lord with all your heart and lean NOT unto your own understanding(philosophies of men and their millions of teachings). In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths(of understanding)." Proverbs 3:5
and: "but the anointing you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as His anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit, just as it has taught you, remain in Him". 1John 2:27
Be careful when mixing with any Muslims who are aggressive, especially if they are numerous in your community. They are being taught already in my state that they must overcome Christianity to rule us, forcing conversion or impose Quranic penalties. It's apparently a fairly long-range plan, perhaps waiting for some national calamity or collapse to weaken our governments. I probably won't witness such religious chaos in my remaining lifetime here, unless most citizens stop caring about freedom. However, on our largest college campuses us "infidels" have learned to look away from Muslim women who are being escorted class to class and dorm by groups of Muslim males. There is considerable intimidation in the dorms, Muslims keeping "infidels" away from their rooms and activities. One of my daughters got assigned to a room shared by a Muslim exchange student. She was directed to sleep on a couch in the dorm lobby. Her belongings were moved to a hall closet. She was forced to tell me, as there were no openings to move to, and the Admin warned not to cause trouble over it. I had to get her an apartment off campus until the university found a solution a month later when a student quit attending. She drew a Buddhist that showed a lot of interest in Christianity, so that was interesting. I've been assigned in some American cities where it was obviously very wise to be "less American" in behavior, places I would not at all consider living around for any reward. It is not the place to go around boldly preaching Jesus in coffee shops. Christian ministries have for the most part shown the dust of their feet and moved on. That's how Jesus taught disciples to do it in Mark 6:10-12 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
Also keep in mind that anyone who departs from Islam becomes a potential target for violence. Such people need a lot of support, and should consider leaving town.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
Also keep in mind that anyone who departs from Islam becomes a potential target for violence. Such people need a lot of support, and should consider leaving town.
I don't know if the Quaran has changed and I don't know if the new testament has changed..I guess that's one of my problems...
The original new testament manuscripts are missing. We only have copies...The Quaran is in it original Aramaic language...the same language they use to today...in Hebrew and Greek one word can have two differant meanings and That's why you may see bible contradictions or it just dont make sense...
The original new testament manuscripts are missing. We only have copies...The Quaran is in it original Aramaic language...the same language they use to today...in Hebrew and Greek one word can have two differant meanings and That's why you may see bible contradictions or it just dont make sense...
Nothing has changed, meaning the scriptures. if you don't look into it, you wont find out. But you cant be looking to atheist and Muslims .
Answer to Christ, are found by asking God,,,, and only in God's words the Bible and related secular History that corroborates it further for people that want that.
Look up Daniel B. Wallace lectures on the NT. He don't know much about the old. And still has more to learn of the New, but hes a decent Christian, Bible scholar for learning the basics for;a few of your questions. He doesn't understand Biblical theology so much, as he is a historian of the manuscripts they are found in.
Answer to Christ, are found by asking God,,,, and only in God's words the Bible and related secular History that corroborates it further for people that want that.
Look up Daniel B. Wallace lectures on the NT. He don't know much about the old. And still has more to learn of the New, but hes a decent Christian, Bible scholar for learning the basics for;a few of your questions. He doesn't understand Biblical theology so much, as he is a historian of the manuscripts they are found in.
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