a challenge for those who believe Jesus allows divorce after adultery

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A

AVoice

Guest
#1
The Challenge


Make a sentence like this:

Matt 5:
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Let us break it down and identify what the sentence does on a very basic level:

A) It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: [Something the listeners are familiar with is brought to their attention, which identifies the topic of the sentence]
B) But I say unto you, [An enlightenment or clarification or correction of some sort is forthcoming]
1) That whosoever shall put away his wife, [if a particular act is done)
2) saving for the cause of fornication, [unless done for a reason or under certain circumstances]
3) causeth her to commit adultery: [causes whoever or whatever has been the recipient of that action to do something negative]
4) and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. [a third party becomes involved and thereby becomes guilty of the same thing the recipient of the original action was caused to do.]

Now let us isolate what the parallel is supposed to do:

A) [Something the listeners are familiar with is brought to their attention, which identifies the topic of the sentence]
B) [An enlightenment or clarification or correction of some sort is forthcoming]
1) [if a particular act is done)
2) [unless done for a reason or under certain circumstances]
3) [causes whoever or whatever has been the recipient of that action to do something negative]
4) [a third party becomes involved and thereby becomes guilty of the same thing the recipient of the original action was caused to do.]

Now an example of a parallel that sufficiently performs after the manner required:
A) You have heard it said, that students, whose families own orchards, should be allowed to leave apples on the hoods of their cars at the beginning of harvest time in thankfulness to God.
B) but I say to you:
1) whosoever shall leave his apple on the hood of his car,
2) saving for the cause of rottenness,
3) causes a passing child to commit theft:
4) and whosoever takes an apple found sitting on the hood of another's car, committeth theft".

Another example:
A) You have heard it said that if you need something at home, go ahead and take it, the boss won’t even know it’s gone
B) but I say to you
1) that whoever takes something
2) except with permission to borrow
3) causes their employer monetary loss
4) and whoever urges an employee to pilfer is an accomplice in the crime.

Another example:
A) You have heard it said that the spacesuits of our older comrades should be taken from them:
B) but I say to you that
1) anyone who takes a space walking spaceman’s spacesuit from him,
2) except in the case where he’s already dead,
3) will cause him to die
4) and anyone using the spacesuit taken from a spaceman will be deemed an accomplice.

The kind of sentence that Matt 5:32 is, doing what it has been shown to do on a very basic level, cannot make sense while having an exception clause that provides partial allowance of what the sentence is addressing, as established by A). In the first example about apples, the topic is obviously about apples in good condition. The exception clause does not give partial permission to put good apples on the hoods of cars. Rather, the exception clause jumps to what was not under consideration or even hinted at; rotten apples. In the second example, pertaining to a culture of pilfering by employees, the exception clause also does not give partial permission to take what is needed at home without permission. The exception clause jumps to something other than what the topic of the sentence is as established by A). In the third example, as well, the exception clause jumps to taking from a dead spaceman when the topic of discussion was about taking from a live spaceman. In these cases, if attempts are made to make the exception clause provide partial allowance concerning what the topic of discussion is, as established in A), then the sentence becomes literally non coherent. That is because such an attempt is in reality an attempt to force a sentence that can only accommodate a “nonessential” exception clause, (that jumps to a side point not under discussion) to accommodate an “essential” exception clause (that provides partial allowance of what is under discussion). It is impossible for this kind of sentence to have an exception clause that provides partial allowance for what is being discussed, as established in A), and at the same time to make literal sense.

Notice how the sentences in the three examples above have a reasonable flow of comprehension. They are coherent. It is not necessary to read and reread numerous times and speculate what the author was trying to convey and devise different theories concerning what was the intended meaning. But if the exception clause of these parallels were changed to possess an essential exception clause, providing partial allowance of what is being discussed, then there would be good reason to start speculating because there would not be a flow of comprehension. For example, in the last parallel; if the exception clause were to provide partial allowance by saying, “unless the astronaut is over 60 years old”, then the sentence becomes convoluted. So it is with Matt 5:31,32; the entire sentence makes no literal straightforward sense and is convoluted when it is assumed that Jesus is providing partial allowance to do what he is addressing, which is the post marital divorce. He is speaking of post marital divorces as per Matt 5:31 (referencing Deut 24:1), and the exception clause is assumed to be providing partial allowance of that kind of divorce; for her having committed adultery. Notice the convoluted mess it is when fornication is assumed to mean adultery:

Matt 5:
A) It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
B) But I say unto you,
1) That whosoever shall put away his wife,
2) saving for the cause of fornication [read as adultery]
3) causeth her to commit adultery:
4) and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

If whosoever marries her that is divorced commits adultery as per 4), then how can the mechanics of the sentence simultaneously say that she that was divorced for adultery was not caused to commit adultery if divorced for that reason? If she that was divorced for stinky feet is caused to commit adultery, obviously because she becomes vulnerable to other men after being put out of her husband’s house, then isn’t the woman divorced for adultery likewise not caused to commit adultery, similarly, that she is not made vulnerable to other men after being put out of her husband’s house? The whole long sentence cannot be taken literally and make sense. Interjecting phrases and making complex deductions becomes necessary to arrive at theories what the author must have intended.


Now read the exception clause as NOT providing partial allowance, but rather as a nonessential exception clause that jumps away to touch on something other than what the sentence is centrally addressing, as established in A):

Matt 5:
A) It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
B) But I say unto you,
1) That whosoever shall put away his wife,
2) saving for the cause of fornication [read as the premarital kind of divorce Joseph was about to do with Mary while only engaged, as revealed in Matt 1:18-24]
3) causeth her to commit adultery:
4) and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

The wife divorced after this manner is not caused to commit adultery. That makes perfect sense, since she is still single, not having cleaved to her husband, from which status if she had entered, and thereby becoming joined together by God, only death could part. All divorces not after this manner, all post marital divorces, are wrong because they cause the wife to commit adultery. A frightful crime to be charged with in judgment before a jealous God. This reading, taking the exception clause as not providing partial allowance of what is under discussion, (the nonessential kind, the only kind of exception clause the sentence can accommodate), makes perfect sense and is in line with the rest of Matt 5 where Jesus is establishing kingdom commandments and identifying things derived from the law that under the new testament were to be no longer allowable. This particular prohibition in effect declares that the only way a man can divorce his wife is if it is a betrothed wife, which kind of divorce was identified for the common reason it was done, for “fornication”, not adultery. The exception clause, creating a comparison between the two different kinds of divorces, postmarital and premarital, completely eliminated the former on the grounds that it causes the wife to commit adultery, as well as identifying the man who marries that divorced woman as committing adultery with another man’s wife. That other kind of divorce, done premaritally, is not an offense to God. In their culture the man and woman who were engaged possessed the titles of “husband” and “wife” and the termination of the engagement was called a ‘putting away’, the same term used for divorce. The exception clause jumped to that other kind of divorce just like the 3 parallels above, whose nonessential exception clauses jumped to what was not the topic of discussion. The nonessential exception clause, the kind that jumps to something other than what is being addressed, is the only kind that can work in this kind of sentence. This kind of clause can also be omitted altogether from a sentence containing it and no damage occurs since it touches on a point the sentence is not directly addressing.

It is fitting that we give Jesus the last word on this. Notice how the straightforwardness of his words in Mark and Luke, which authors did not include the exception clause, fully agree with the understanding that the exception clause of Matt 5:32; 19:9 is “nonessential”, and therefore can be left out without disturbing the central thrust of the sentence, and therefore does not give partial allowance of what is under discussion. These easy to understand words, spoken in the context of a one-man-one-woman first time marriage, are to be taken at face value:

Mark 10:
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:
18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
 
N

Nicee

Guest
#2
Divorce after adultery who does that nowadays? LOL. I know when it comes to love people are very forgiving. But the question is how much will you forgive your partner before it too much? Cheating is part of the reason people divorce but not the only reason. Just as how God's love for us isnt the only reason he forgives us.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
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#3
Fortunately I am not a Jew so that doesn't apply to me.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#4
I always say that actions speak louder than words, Christ tells us that even thinking wrongly about a person is as good as murder and adultery. One member of my church leadership was given a word from God by a visiting speaker, he told him that God said he is preparing a wife for him.

A few months later this woman turns up with boyfriend in tow, they were sleeping together and she had numerous relationships in past. Turns out she gave her self over to Christ, boyfriend departed, she was the woman who God was preparing, less than a year later they marry.

If marrying someone who is divorced was such an issue with God, then why allow this to happen? Why bring divorced people together, if it is a sin, then surely just confessing that sin to God and saying sorry to God is enough to make that clean and God then does not see it. It is a shame how people get so hung up on this.
 
D

dalconn

Guest
#5
1 Cor 7

10
Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart fromher husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him.14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. 16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

I would think Paul, the Apostle to the gentles has the last word

 
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phil112

Guest
#6
The Challenge


Make a sentence like this:

Matt 5:
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Let us break it down and identify what the sentence does on a very basic level:................
Let's break it down like this: Who was He talking to? Jews in a covenant relationship with God. What did He have to say about it when He talked to you and I? God chose the apostle Paul from his mothers womb to finish Christ's ministry on earth. You know, the second half of the week. You know, the 3 years Paul sat under Christ being taught by Him in Arabia..You know, after Christ's resurrection? You remember, when Christ said: "Paul go tell AVoice and Phil, and the other gentiles what I require of them. See, I can't do it as I have been sacrificed before I got around to teaching the gentiles, but they have to get the message as they have been invited to the wedding party...the one I told about in the 22nd chapter of Matthew. Let them know how to dress for that occasion."

Ridiculous! The same old drivel from people that don't understand the plain and simple word of God. Stay away from strong meat, voice, you're choking on milk and I'm not sure anyone is close to you that knows the Heimlich maneuver.
 

Nick01

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2013
1,272
26
48
#7
I'm not sure I fully understand your position (it is rather long and technical in expression).

But tell me if this is it:

Your argument is that it cannot be an exception clause in terms of actual marriage in 5:32, because the structure of the first clause does not otherwise hint at the content of the third 'exception' clause. The topic of the extension clause is fornication pre marriage, where A) only discuss post marriage. In the same way, the apples example is only discussing good apples, whereas the exception clause there deals with 'rotten' apples. Therefore, the subject of the topic under discussion, and the subject of the exception clause, are entirely different things, and the exception clause does not involve a discussion of the topic at hand.

Am I with you so far?
 
A

AVoice

Guest
#8
I'm not sure I fully understand your position (it is rather long and technical in expression).

But tell me if this is it:

Your argument is that it cannot be an exception clause in terms of actual marriage in 5:32, because the structure of the first clause does not otherwise hint at the content of the third 'exception' clause. The topic of the extension clause is fornication pre marriage, where A) only discuss post marriage. In the same way, the apples example is only discussing good apples, whereas the exception clause there deals with 'rotten' apples. Therefore, the subject of the topic under discussion, and the subject of the exception clause, are entirely different things, and the exception clause does not involve a discussion of the topic at hand.

Am I with you so far?
Thanks for your sober response.

It is discovered that the kind of sentence Jesus chose to use in Matt 5:31,32 (the first one in the NT to expound on the topic) is such that ONLY a "non essential" exception clause can be inserted and make sense.
A very common reaction against the idea that the exception clause JUMPS to an entirely different topic (the cultural premarital divorce) is that it does not make any sense for the exception clause to jump to something else when the topic at hand is certainly the normal post marital divorce. It is presumed that since the topic of discussion is the normal post marital divorce then the exception clause MUST of an ABSOLUTE certainty also pertain to that same kind of divorce. In other words, it is assumed that the exception clause HAS TO BE providing partial allowance for the topic at hand. The topic is normal divorce as we know it and the exception clause must therefore be providing partial allowance for that; for adultery.
You follow me so far as what people think about Matt 5:31,32?

Anticipating such a reaction then the challenge is for someone to create a sentence after the format of Matt 5:31,32 where its exception clause can provide partial allowance for the topic under discussion. If that is indeed what the sentence is doing (providing partial allowance as the divorce for adultery folks say) then why cannot one sentence be produced on any topic imaginable that can demonstrate that simple function?
Someone please invite phil112 to accept this challenge and produce just 1 sentence on any topic imaginable that can perform the way he claims Matt 5:31,32 performs. I will take his refusal to accept the challenge that he was unable to make such a sentence.
 
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May 3, 2013
8,719
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#9
Divorce and adultery are two awful experience no one liked... Are you making it easy to bear?
 
A

AVoice

Guest
#10
1 Cor 7

10
Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart fromher husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him.14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. 16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

I would think Paul, the Apostle to the gentles has the last word

Verse 15 is addressing the believer not being in bondage to think they are doing wrong by not abiding with their spouse. They are not in bondage to have to dwell with their spouse who has left. The immediate context is the Christian obligation for the believer to continue with their unbelieving spouse for the purpose to win them to Christ. They have not failed that obligation just because the unbeliever has departed. They are not under bondage to continue living with him or her. Paul is referring to an entirely different kind of freedom than what is presumed. He is NOT referring to the freedom to commit adultery by remarriage. In finalizing the chapter in verse 39 it is emphasized that the wife is in fact bound to her husband as long as he lives. Remarriage is adultery as Jesus identified 5 times and Paul twice. To anyone loving the truth; that should mean something.
 
A

AVoice

Guest
#11
Let's break it down like this: Who was He talking to? Jews in a covenant relationship with God. What did He have to say about it when He talked to you and I? God chose the apostle Paul from his mothers womb to finish Christ's ministry on earth. You know, the second half of the week. You know, the 3 years Paul sat under Christ being taught by Him in Arabia..You know, after Christ's resurrection? You remember, when Christ said: "Paul go tell AVoice and Phil, and the other gentiles what I require of them. See, I can't do it as I have been sacrificed before I got around to teaching the gentiles, but they have to get the message as they have been invited to the wedding party...the one I told about in the 22nd chapter of Matthew. Let them know how to dress for that occasion."

Ridiculous! The same old drivel from people that don't understand the plain and simple word of God. Stay away from strong meat, voice, you're choking on milk and I'm not sure anyone is close to you that knows the Heimlich maneuver.
Let's say we agree to answer each others questions on the topic. Whatever question I ask, you are obligated to answer, first with a straightforward yes or no, if the questions requires that, before expounding further. I will show the same respect toward you. Do we have a deal?
 

Nick01

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2013
1,272
26
48
#12
Thanks for your sober response.

It is discovered that the kind of sentence Jesus chose to use in Matt 5:31,32 (the first one in the NT to expound on the topic) is such that ONLY a "non essential" exception clause can be inserted and make sense.
A very common reaction against the idea that the exception clause JUMPS to an entirely different topic (the cultural premarital divorce) is that it does not make any sense for the exception clause to jump to something else when the topic at hand is certainly the normal post marital divorce. It is presumed that since the topic of discussion is the normal post marital divorce then the exception clause MUST of an ABSOLUTE certainty also pertain to that same kind of divorce. In other words, it is assumed that the exception clause HAS TO BE providing partial allowance for the topic at hand. The topic is normal divorce as we know it and the exception clause must therefore be providing partial allowance for that; for adultery.
You follow me so far as what people think about Matt 5:31,32?

Anticipating such a reaction then the challenge is for someone to create a sentence after the format of Matt 5:31,32 where its exception clause can provide partial allowance for the topic under discussion. If that is indeed what the sentence is doing (providing partial allowance as the divorce for adultery folks say) then why cannot one sentence be produced on any topic imaginable that can demonstrate that simple function?
Someone please invite phil112 to accept this challenge and produce just 1 sentence on any topic imaginable that can perform the way he claims Matt 5:31,32 performs. I will take his refusal to accept the challenge that he was unable to make such a sentence.
I do wonder whether your argument is actually more presuppositional rather than exegetical. For what reason do you assume that the exception clause the and the topic sentence are concerning two different subjectS?

They do not seem at all at odds to me - if a woman is divorced for fornication/adultery, and she then marries another man, that second man would seem not to be guilty of adultery. If she is divorced for the same reason, she is not then caused to commit adultery a second time, because she is already an adulterer. If, however, she is given a certificate of divorce for any other reason, she is caused to committ adultery, because she is still in a legitimate relationship.

I would say an analogous sentence would be:

You have heard it said, "When riding your bike, yell very loudly at people on the street"
But I say to you, anyone who yells loudly at people on the street, except if their lives are in danger, will cause those people unnecessary anguish"

I fear that perhaps in your example you actually built your assumptions about the text into your examples. In your second example it is explicit (it mentions taking things from the boss without his knowledge, and therefore permission), in the first and third it is inly implied. However, a semantically logical reading of those two examples also yields a different reading. For instance, in your last example, why should I conclude sentence A is only talking about living spacemen? It simply specifies spacemen, of which dead spacemen are a subset to which the exception can apply.
 
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phil112

Guest
#13
........................
Someone please invite phil112 to accept this challenge and produce just 1 sentence on any topic imaginable that can perform the way he claims Matt 5:31,32 performs. ................
That I claim? I am only bringing scripture to the table. Who did Christ preach to? With only a couple of exceptions, like the Samaritan woman at the well, only to jews. His ministry was to bring the gospel to the whole world.
Paul finished that half of it, of that scripture is clear.
Originally Posted by AVoice
Let's say we agree to answer each others questions on the topic. Whatever question I ask, you are obligated to answer, first with a straightforward yes or no, if the questions requires that, before expounding further. I will show the same respect toward you. Do we have a deal?
Yes or no? Is that how the bible is written? Yes or no?
You tell me what part of post #6 you didn't understand. Plain and simple scripture. Is it that you doubt Paul's credibility? Do we need to establish that first? Is it that you disbelieve that Paul brought the gospel to the gentile? Do I need to bring those numerous scriptures to you?
 
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phil112

Guest
#14
.............. I will take his refusal to accept the challenge that he was unable to make such a sentence.
As for your "challenges", I will try to help you understand the scripture you are missing, but I'm not interested in your "challenges". If you reject scripture we will not be talking much further.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#15
That I claim? I am only bringing scripture to the table. Who did Christ preach to? With only a couple of exceptions, like the Samaritan woman at the well, only to jews. His ministry was to bring the gospel to the whole world.
Paul finished that half of it, of that scripture is clear.
Yes or no? Is that how the bible is written? Yes or no?
You tell me what part of post #6 you didn't understand. Plain and simple scripture. Is it that you doubt Paul's credibility? Do we need to establish that first? Is it that you disbelieve that Paul brought the gospel to the gentile? Do I need to bring those numerous scriptures to you?

Actually no Paul did not finish the great commission for there are still small remote places that have not heard the gospel message, and the name of Jesus.
Paul's charge was to keep the mission going and the main Apostle to spread it out to the gentile nations. That mission is still being fulfilled today.

Second the teaching that Jesus words were only spoken for the Jews is false as we see in the great commission of Matthew 28. He says to baptize new believers and tell them to observe ( do ) all that He said. This applies to us now as well.


Matthew 28:16-20


The Great Commission


16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
 
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phil112

Guest
#16
Actually no (A)Paul did not finish the great commission for there are still small remote places that have not heard the gospel message, and the name of Jesus.
Paul's charge was to keep the mission going and the main Apostle to spread it out to the gentile nations. That mission is still being fulfilled today.

Second the (B)teaching that Jesus words were only spoken for the Jews is false as we see in the great commission of Matthew 28. He says to baptize new believers and tell them to observe ( do ) all that He said. This applies to us now as well.....................
A. Now you're being silly. I didn't say Paul had to personally preach to each and every gentile.
B. I said with few exceptions. There is no denying that far and away, the bulk of Christ's ministry was to the jew. That is why Paul very clearly, and very often, said he was the apostle to the gentile.

If you want to pick my posts apart at least try to find something that has some kind of substance to it.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#17
It seems to me that some folks might have missed a couple of things:
*Jesus expounded on the Law while under the Law.
*Jesus taught this while still under the Law:

Matthew 18:21-22 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Matthew 6:14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

John 8:1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Was Jesus more concerned about the technicalities of the Law, or was He more concerned about teaching about forgiveness of sins? This woman was caught in the act, & Jesus never disputed it, neither did He condemned her for it.
Being bent outta shape about technicalities does nothing but show legalistic tendencies. Jesus made it clear in Rev 2 that the legalistic church needed to repent for leaving their first love.
 
Jun 5, 2014
1,750
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#18
As for your "challenges", I will try to help you understand the scripture you are missing, but I'm not interested in your "challenges". If you reject scripture we will not be talking much further.
I have to give AVoice props for challenging a guy with a chainsaw.

It appears to me that AVoice is saying that remarriage is the unforgivable sin and means going to hell for sure.

Is that how you slice it up?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#19
A writing of divorcement is given because of the hardness in a mans heart. Unless the heart changes toward God how can one expect a change toward divorce?

Many marry because of the lust of the eye not because of love. That is why those who divorce and remarry are often divorced again.

A right relationship with Christ is the foundation upon which successful marriages are built. It is easy to blow up a marriage but it takes prayer and work to make a marriage grow for Gods glory. Infidelity in a marriage requires first there be infidelity toward the Lord Jesus. In other words you betray Christ before you betray your spouse.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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phil112

Guest
#20
I have to give AVoice props for challenging a guy with a chainsaw.

It appears to me that AVoice is saying that remarriage is the unforgivable sin and means going to hell for sure.

Is that how you slice it up?
I don't know what kind of penalty voice is attaching to divorce, but that old testament law is not for us. Paul laid out clearly how we should behave. The jews Christ spoke to had a covenant relationship with God. The gentile never had such a thing, and that is why it was necessary for Paul to detail how that aspect of our lives should be managed in respect to God's wishes.