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Thread: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

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    Default Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Those that follow the man-made teaching of FAITH ONLY have said many times a saving faith WILL produce works.



    Simple question:

    If a man has faith but his faith produces NO works, will his FAITH ONLY save him anyway?


    No simple answer:

    If the faith only advocate answers "no" then he is refuting his own belief that FAITH ONLY saves.

    If the faith only advocate answers "yes" then he is refuting his own statement that a saving faith WILL produce works and conflicting Eph 2:10 that says the Christian must do good works.



    [It also conflicts Lk 13:3,5 that one must repent to be saved, Mt 10:32,33 and Rom 10:9,10 one must confess to be saved and Mk 16:16 and Acts 2:38 one must be baptized...will FAITH ONLY save one that will not repent, will not confess Christ and who is lost in his unforgiven sins anyway?]
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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    1 Sam 16:7 7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at Heart"

    Jeremiah 17:10
    10 “I the Lord search the heart
    and examine the mind,
    to reward each person according to their conduct,
    according to what their deeds deserve.”

    Our faith is tied to our hearts and our hearts are tide to our actions.


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    Hebrews 6:19

    19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain,



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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Genuine faith first .... good works next

    Works without faith are dead and have no value

    Do not follow religious movements that subject you to a set of selected dogmas

    These will tell you if you do not follow their prescribed legalisms that you are not saved

    You will also be told that your membership in their "cult like" organization is a requirement for your salvation

    Today's professing church is filled with this devised methodology for gain .... stay away from them

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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Straightshot View Post
    Genuine faith first .... good works next
    The question is what if one's faith does NOT produce good works next, will his 'genuine' faith only save him anyway?

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    Senior Member mailmandan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaBass View Post
    Those that follow the man-made teaching of FAITH ONLY have said many times a saving faith WILL produce works.
    Man is saved through FAITH THAT TRUSTS ONLY IN CHRIST FOR SALVATION AND NOT IN WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9). Not to be confused with faith that ONLY CLAIMS TO BE GENUINE BUT DEMONSTRATES BY THE LACK OF WORKS THAT IT'S DEAD (James 2:14-20). Man is saved through faith and not by works; yet genuine faith is evidenced by works. Will you ever understand this?

    Simple question:

    If a man has faith but his faith produces NO works, will his FAITH ONLY save him anyway?
    A man actually has faith but has no works = Oxymoron. James 2:14 - Claims/says he has faith but has no works. That is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith. That's why it won't save.

    No simple answer:

    If the faith only advocate answers "no" then he is refuting his own belief that FAITH ONLY saves.
    Faith that trusts ONLY in Christ for salvation saves. Faith that ONLY claims to be genuine but demonstrates by the lack of works that it's dead does not save. There is your simple answer that ONLY genuine believers will clearly grasp.

    If the faith only advocate answers "yes" then he is refuting his own statement that a saving faith WILL produce works and conflicting Eph 2:10 that says the Christian must do good works.
    It's not that faith must produce works in order to become genuine but faith will produce works if it is genuine. Ephesians 2:10 says that we are saved FOR good works, NOT by good works. You have it backwards. When you hear a genuine believer say that we are saved through "faith IN CHRIST alone," they are not saying that we are saved by the "kind" of faith that remains alone "barren of works". Saving faith results in producing good works, so it's not alone in that sense but it's the faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ for salvation part of the equation that "alone" is the instrumental means by which we receive salvation. Good works are the fruit, by-product and demonstrative evidence of our faith, but they are not the means of our salvation. Christ's finished work of redemption is the all sufficient means of our salvation. No supplements needed.

    [It also conflicts Lk 13:3,5 that one must repent to be saved,
    No conflict at all. We must first repent "change our mind" before we can believe the gospel and become saved.

    Mt 10:32,33 and Rom 10:9,10 one must confess to be saved
    It's not must confess but will. In Matthew 10:32-33, the broader context of this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples spoke about Him in every city they visited. We might paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like these Pharisees do on every occasion they get), I will deny him before my Father in heaven. Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Him as being the true Messiah and trust in Him as the way of salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him (John 3:16; 14:6). The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Him three times - Luke 22:34), but is referring to life in its entirety.

    In Romans 10:9,10 - Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth he confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess. 1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing that Jesus is Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit from a check list of steps as if they are simply magic words that must be said as an additional requirement to become saved after faith is not unto salvation.

    and Mk 16:16 and Acts 2:38 one must be baptized..
    Not must but will, unless one is unable to be because they are on their death bed, like the thief on the cross. Condemnation is the result of a lack of belief (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18) not a lack of baptism. Faith "implied in repentance" is unto the remission of sins (Acts 3:19; 11:17,18) and baptism is parenthetical.

    .will FAITH ONLY save one that will not repent, will not confess Christ and who is lost in his unforgiven sins anyway?]
    No, because that is NOT GENUINE FAITH. Those with genuine faith have already repented and confessed with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and will confess Christ to others. FAITH ONLY per James is an empty profession of faith, not genuine faith.
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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    "The question is what if one's faith does NOT produce good works next, will his 'genuine' faith only save him anyway?"


    Yes it will

    And I can tell you this, the saved of the Lord's true Ecclesia [called out ones] will always do good works to please Him .... these are filled with His holy spirit and empowered to do His will

    Continuous Law keeping [or any part of it] does not please Him .... He knows that one cannot do this in the first place

    The law has been given to condemn and will not save you

    What set of laws does your religious affiliation tell you that you must keep?

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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post

    A man actually has faith but has no works = Oxymoron. James 2:14 - Claims/says he has faith but has no works. That is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith. That's why it won't save.


    Faith that trusts ONLY in Christ for salvation saves. Faith that ONLY claims to be genuine but demonstrates by the lack of works that it's dead does not save. There is your simple answer that ONLY genuine believers will clearly grasp.

    You gave no simple "yes" or 'no' answer but what you post above appears you answer my question with a "no". So you are saying faith alone does not save.

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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Straightshot View Post
    "The question is what if one's faith does NOT produce good works next, will his 'genuine' faith only save him anyway?"


    Yes it will

    And I can tell you this, the saved of the Lord's true Ecclesia [called out ones] will always do good works to please Him .... these are filled with His holy spirit and empowered to do His will

    Continuous Law keeping [or any part of it] does not please Him .... He knows that one cannot do this in the first place

    The law has been given to condemn and will not save you

    What set of laws does your religious affiliation tell you that you must keep?
    Here you say "yes" faith alone will save. Earlier you posted "good works next".

    So if one can be saved by faith alone and NEVER do good works, yet that violates your "good works next" and Eph 2:10 that says the Christian must do good works.

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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    You are not listening

    I said that one who is truly saved by faith alone will then do good works

    Now .... tell me of what good works that you have been taught to do as a requirement in order for you to be saved

    .... then I will discuss these things with you and why you might be following false teaching

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    Senior Member mailmandan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaBass View Post
    You gave no simple "yes" or 'no' answer but what you post above appears you answer my question with a "no". So you are saying faith alone does not save.
    Faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE saves, not faith that merely claims to be genuine but remains alone (barren of works) because it's dead. A simple yes or no answer does not cut it because you need to explain what you mean by faith "alone." Faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation - YES. An empty profession of faith that remains "alone" (barren of works) because it's dead - NO.
    Last edited by mailmandan; November 9th, 2014 at 10:42 AM.

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    Senior Member Angelmommie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaBass View Post
    The question is what if one's faith does NOT produce good works next, will his 'genuine' faith only save him anyway?
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
    Is this what you were meaning?
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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelmommie View Post
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
    Is this what you were meaning?
    This verse, Eph 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

    It's not possible to be a Chrisitan and NOT do good works.
    So does the man-made teaching of faith only over-ride Eph 2:10?

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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE saves, not faith that merely claims to be genuine but remains alone (barren of works) because it's dead. A simple yes or no answer does not cut it because you need to explain what you mean by faith "alone." Faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation - YES. An empty profession of faith that remains "alone" (barren of works) because it's dead - NO.

    You already posted "Faith that ONLY claims to be genuine but demonstrates by the lack of works that it's dead does not save."

    You say here faith that lacks works is DEAD.

    Now above you say Faith only saves.

    A simple yes or no would cut it. Too many faith only advocates are trying to straddle the fence.

    It was stated in another thread "faith alone saves but faith that saves is never alone"

    Pure contradiction for faith cannot be alone and not alone at the same time. I demonstrated where you have already said faith that lacks works is dead but then say faith alone saves. You have faith alone going from being dead to saving.

    On one hand you say faith alone in Christ for salvation but then say faith alone (barren of works) is dead. A contradiction, straddling the fence. So does faith alone save or is it dead being barren of works?


    Faith alone means just that- faith and NOTHING else. Cannot be faith and good works for that is not faith and NOTHING else.

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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaBass View Post
    Those that follow the man-made teaching of FAITH ONLY have said many times a saving faith WILL produce works.

    Simple question:

    If a man has faith but his faith produces NO works, will his FAITH ONLY save him anyway?

    No simpe answer:
    Simple answer:

    Addressed many times already.

    If his faith produces no works, it is a counterfeit faith and does not save.

    You are repeating yourself. . .again.

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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Straightshot View Post
    You are not listening

    I said that one who is truly saved by faith alone will then do good works

    Now .... tell me of what good works that you have been taught to do as a requirement in order for you to be saved

    .... then I will discuss these things with you and why you might be following false teaching
    I hear what you say. you said one is saved by faith alone then does good works.

    I am asking you what if one who has faith but does NOT do good works can then his faith alone save him?

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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Elin View Post
    Simple answer:

    Addressed many times already.

    If his faith produces no works, it is a counterfeit faith and does not save.

    You are repeating yourself. . .again.
    You're repeating yourself with your avoidance.

    I demonstrated in my OP why you are afraid to give a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer.

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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    I have faith. It came from God. It gave me to know Him and worship Him. When I grew up, I always looked up to God.
    I always will. Now I am Faithfully Married to Him in absolute Fidelity. Hope all you guys figure that out. Because it is a gasser once you get pass the carnal stuff
    Thank you Jesus.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaBass View Post
    I hear what you say. you said one is saved by faith alone then does good works.

    I am asking you what if one who has faith but does NOT do good works can then his faith alone save him?

    The answer to your question would be no.
    You can not save you have true faith, and no good works that follow.

    One can say they have faith and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, but if they don't repent of sins they still are not saved.
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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bride View Post
    I have faith. It came from God. It gave me to know Him and worship Him. When I grew up, I always looked up to God.
    I always will. Now I am Faithfully Married to Him in absolute Fidelity. Hope all you guys figure that out. Because it is a gasser once you get pass the carnal stuff
    Thank you Jesus.
    Rom 10:17 "faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God."

    Can one have FAITH ONLY and never do good works per EPh 2:10, then will his FAITH ONLY (barren of good works) save him anyway?

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    Default Re: Simple Question...No Simple Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by kennethcadwell View Post
    The answer to your question would be no.
    You can not save you have true faith, and no good works that follow.

    One can say they have faith and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, but if they don't repent of sins they still are not saved.
    But will a faith only advocate answer it "no"? Most likely not for a 'no' answer kills their theology.

    But if the faith only advocates answers "yes" then they are saying one can be saved by a faith that has no good works at all contradicting Eph 2:10 and contradicting their own claim that faith WILL produce works. Thus Elin avoids answering.

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