What happens when Believers don't obey the Gospel

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Oct 12, 2013
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#1
What happens when Believers don't obey the Gospel...

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:


We are told to hear and "do". But we all believe in Jesus, isn't that good enough?...

Acts 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
[2] A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
[3] He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
[4] And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
[5] And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
[6] He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

Here, we find Cornelius believed in God and was a devote man, and one that feared God. His prayers and alms had come up for a memorial before God. But was he saved?

No, he was not saved. He was told to go and listen to what Peter has to say. Peter began to tell him the New Testament plan of salvation - the scene picks up from verse 10:44...

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Now, Cornelius and company get saved (the Bible way), for they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Water baptism was part of that preaching, saying, can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

When we OBEY the Gospel, we get saved (the Bible way). When we try it "mans way", we are not saved. And Cornelius, who was also a believer, was NOT SAVED until he obeyed the gospel and did what Peter commanded.


To be saved, the Bible way, is to obey the gospel.

The core of the gospel is that He died, was buried and raised himself from the dead (John 10:18), thus having overcome death and the grave. Now, to receive unto our selves what he has done for us, is to obey the gospel. That is to obey the death, burial, and resurrection.

Jesus said that we must be born again to enter the kingdom. Let's turn to John chapter three...

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Born again is of water and spirit. And, without this we cannot enter the kingdom. In fact, the book of Acts will cross reference this in chapter two...

[37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Question: Why didn't Peter lead them through a sinner's prayer? Why didn't Peter say to accept Jesus as their personal saviour? Why didn't he say to simply "believe"? If there was ever a time to do all that, this certainly would have been it. None of that happened because that is NOT the way to be saved.

If we are to obey the gospel, we would have to symbolize the death, burial, and resurrection. And, that is what Peter said to do...

1. Death = repent
2. Burial = baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection = Holy Spirit

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


Remember, Cornelius was a devote man which feared God and who's alms came up as a memorial - but he was Not saved until he Obeyed the Gospel and did what Peter said to do.


God bless!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2
dont we have enough of these satanic water baptismal regeneration threads?

we are saved the same way abraham, Noah, Adam and eve, King David, The prophet daniel, and paul were saved.

By faith in God, adding a work of men takes away from the work of God.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#3
What happens when we don't believe the Gospel?

We don't receive His Spirit.
We fall into self effort salvation.
We grow in self righteousness.
We produce the works of the flesh instead of the fruit of the Spirit.
We are left without hope and fear of judgment knowing our self efforts just aren't good enough.

just to name a few.
 
May 15, 2013
4,307
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#4
What happens when Believers don't obey the Gospel...

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:




God bless!
It is because that they has already received their reward, here in this life; but we should set are minds on the things of God. The idea of serving, is for what He has to offer and some of what He have to offer is for those whom hunger and thirst for, and that is righteousness. A lot of people only serve God only to receive the things what Pagan's chase after, and which God will give it to them for their servitude, but that is all they is going to get. They are consider the Hire hand, but if the wolf comes to the flock, they'll run away leaving the flock unprotected. But God's children love the things what God loves, like mercy, justice and the faithfulness and these are some of the things God offer, but since the divorce rate is rising, that shows that we are lacking in being faithful.

2 Corinthians 4:18
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Hosea 6:6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.
 
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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
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#5
Hard to explain believe but not obey.

One day I am standing in the roadside in my town. There is a motorcycle approaching me, He stop and as me the direction to go to Bandung ( one of the city in Java). I give him direction. Seem he trust me and follow my direction. But he stop at the cigarette shop about 200 feed from where I am standing, And make a conversation with the shop owner. Then he went to another direction.

I am curious and went to the cigarette shop, ask the owner about what was the conversation. The owner is new resident and not very familiar with the town map. The owner said that man ask direction to go to Bandung and he give the wrong direction.

A motorcycle man is just like what we are. We want to go to city named Heaven. We ask the direction to one, and not sure, go to another man.

It hard to explain if we believe specific map/ in this case bible and not follow/obey the map and expect to reach the destination.

In another word there isn't such thing that believe but not tray to obey.

this motorcycle man not obey my direction because he didn't believe me.

If you not obey Jesus, more likely you not believe/entrust in Him.
 
Nov 10, 2014
103
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#6
What happens when Believers don't obey the Gospel...
what happens when unbelievers don't obey the gospel?
what happens when descendants of isaac don't obey the gospel?
are they saved anyway? chosen for salvation though they die in unbelief?
what happnes when the Bible refers to someone as a liar and an antichrist? do we over-ride that and proclaim they are not liars and antichrists? do we go so far as to say that antichrists (jew or gentile) are God's chosen people?
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#7
The worst thing is when believers depend on works for salvation. They fall from grace. Read Galations.

Our fruit or obedience is just outward evidence of being in fellowship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Not our salvation.
 
V

VioletReigns

Guest
#8
Hmmmm, I can only answer personally that when I don't obey the Lord, I get chastised. In all the years I've walked with Him, His promise has been true: He is completing what He started in me.

The Lord God will not let me out of His sight ~ won't let anything separate me from Him ~ He is a Father who chastises and gets His children back on course ~ captured me and made me His prisoner by His Blood ~ never forsakes me ~ always hears me ~ and makes the wind, the sea and even ME obey Him.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#9
What happens when Believers don't obey the Gospel...

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:


We are told to hear and "do". But we all believe in Jesus, isn't that good enough?...

Acts 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
[2] A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
[3] He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
[4] And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
[5] And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
[6] He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

Here, we find Cornelius believed in God and was a devote man, and one that feared God. His prayers and alms had come up for a memorial before God. But was he saved?

No, he was not saved. He was told to go and listen to what Peter has to say. Peter began to tell him the New Testament plan of salvation - the scene picks up from verse 10:44...

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Now, Cornelius and company get saved (the Bible way), for they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Water baptism was part of that preaching, saying, can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

When we OBEY the Gospel, we get saved (the Bible way). When we try it "mans way", we are not saved. And Cornelius, who was also a believer, was NOT SAVED until he obeyed the gospel and did what Peter commanded.


To be saved, the Bible way, is to obey the gospel.

The core of the gospel is that He died, was buried and raised himself from the dead (John 10:18), thus having overcome death and the grave. Now, to receive unto our selves what he has done for us, is to obey the gospel. That is to obey the death, burial, and resurrection.

Jesus said that we must be born again to enter the kingdom. Let's turn to John chapter three...

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Born again is of water and spirit. And, without this we cannot enter the kingdom. In fact, the book of Acts will cross reference this in chapter two...

[37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Question: Why didn't Peter lead them through a sinner's prayer? Why didn't Peter say to accept Jesus as their personal saviour? Why didn't he say to simply "believe"? If there was ever a time to do all that, this certainly would have been it. None of that happened because that is NOT the way to be saved.

If we are to obey the gospel, we would have to symbolize the death, burial, and resurrection. And, that is what Peter said to do...

1. Death = repent
2. Burial = baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection = Holy Spirit

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


Remember, Cornelius was a devote man which feared God and who's alms came up as a memorial - but he was Not saved until he Obeyed the Gospel and did what Peter said to do.


God bless!
Paul doesn't seem to have your high view of baptism as you do, my friend.

1 Corinthians 1:17
"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."

You believe baptism is a part of the gospel. But yet Paul says, he came not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#10
We should be baptized but it has no bearing on our salvation.Because it is what we do and not what God did.
 
Nov 10, 2014
103
1
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#11
Hmmmm, I can only answer personally that when I don't obey the Lord, I get chastised. In all the years I've walked with Him, His promise has been true: He is completing what He started in me.

The Lord God will not let me out of His sight ~ won't let anything separate me from Him ~ He is a Father who chastises and gets His children back on course ~ captured me and made me His prisoner by His Blood ~ never forsakes me ~ always hears me ~ and makes the wind, the sea and even ME obey Him.
are you baptized?
if not, have you been chastised?
 
Nov 10, 2014
103
1
0
#12
We should be baptized but it has no bearing on our salvation.Because it is what we do and not what God did.
God can't work in baptism?

for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

high, or low view of baptism?
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#13
Show where any of the twelve were baptized not Paul but the twelve and I meant in water and Imeant if were that important you would think that the Holy Spirit would have it recorded in the bible. Doncha ya think?
 
Nov 10, 2014
103
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#14
Show where any of the twelve were baptized not Paul but the twelve and I meant in water and Imeant if were that important you would think that the Holy Spirit would have it recorded in the bible. Doncha ya think?
so you don' think it's important.

Jesus: Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

were you baptized, and if so why since its not important.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#15
I have been baptized, but I didn't do it for salvation, though. I did it as an outward public declaration of my faith and as an answer of a good conscience towards God.

Going down into the water is symbolic of being buried with Christ and coming out of the water is symbolic of being resurrected into a new life with Him.

If I don't believe in baptismal salvation, does my baptism count? Or do I need to get re-baptized with the thinking it saves me? See, that is what is silly about baptismal salvation. For Jesus said His burden was easy and it was light. God doesn't make things complicated for us. If we repent of our sins and accept Jesus Christ as our savior we are saved. Then holiness and fruitful works will naturally come forth (confirming one's faith is true or not).
 
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Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#16
Paul says he came not to baptize but to preach the gospel. If baptismal salvation was true, then why is Paul making a statement that seems to conflict with a doctrine of salvation?

In other words, if we insert the words.... "baptize as a part of saving you" (In place of the word "baptize") into Paul's statement.... it doesn't make sense.
 
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SolidGround

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2014
904
17
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#17
Paul says he came not to baptize but to preach the gospel. If baptismal salvation was true, then why is Paul making a statement that seems to conflict with a doctrine of salvation?

In other words, if we insert the words.... "baptize as a part of saving you" (In place of the word "baptize") into Paul's statement.... it doesn't make sense.
Along those same lines, if baptism was a part of the Gospel, then Paul would never have made the distinction, placing baptism as one thing separate from his mission of the Gospel. Wouldn't his mission be also to baptize if that was part of the Gospel?
According to the proposition by the OP, perhaps Paul should have said, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach (part of) the gospel".
The distinction shows separation.
(if this hasn't already been said before)
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
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#18
What happens when Believers don't obey the Gospel...

................Remember, Cornelius was a devote man which feared God and who's alms came up as a memorial - but he was Not saved until he Obeyed the Gospel and did what Peter said to do. God bless!
That first Gentile household to be saved already knew about Jesus' gospel, (verse 37 "that word, I say, ye know..") but needed to hear it preached. God had prepared them already. Upon hearing but a miniscule part of the gospel they met God's terms of belief in the whole of it and were baptized in Christ, then instantly filled with the holy Spirit. At that point they were born again. Peter had not told them do a thing up to that point. All he had to do was deliver a short sermon. All they had to do was receive the gospel, which they did interrupting Peter. They worked their first work of righteousness by being baptized with John's water baptism. John's baptism never resulted in salvation of anyone, and doing that can't add to salvation after being spirit filled. They were spiritually baptized into Christ upon hearing the gospel by believing unto faith unto being born again, then filled with the Spirit.

The OP question then has to be answered that one can't be a believer while not believing the gospel and obeying the commandments of Christ.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
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#19
[h=1]In these law hang all the law an prophet.

Water baptism is only a symbol. I can understand people emphasis in water baptism and killing raping, etc.

Matthew 22:36-40New International Version (NIV)[/h]36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h][h=1]Emanuela Orlandi, 15, Killed To Cover Up Vatican 'Sex Parties,' Claims Father Gabriele Amorth[/h]By Michael Billera@http://twitter.com/#!/MichaelBillera on May 23 2012 10:39 AM




Father Gabriele Amorth, who was appointed by Pope John Paul II as the chief exorcist of the Vatican, claims that the a teenage girl who went missing in the 80s, Emanuela Orlandi, was murdered as part of underground Vatican sex parties with ties to the organized crime and foreign embassies.
Amorth said that in the summer of 1983, 15-year-old Orlandi was snatched from the streets of Rome and mysteriously vanished without a trace. He said she was forced to perform in sex parties.
This was a crime with a sexual motive, said Amorth, reported the Telegraph. Parties were organized, with a Vatican gendarme acting as the 'recruiter' of the girls. The network involved diplomatic personnel from a foreign embassy to the Holy See. I believe Emanuela ended up a victim of this circle.
For three decades, the fate of Orlandi has consumed Italian police investigators. In an effort to solve the cold case, police acted on an anonymous tip to a popular television show in which a supposed informant claimed Orlandi could be buried in a murdered gangster's tomb.
Last week, Italian authorities and forensic experts opened the tomb of mobster Enrico De Pedis's in their hunt for Orlandi's body. Bones not belonging to De Pedis were discovered in the crypt. Analysis is being done to determine if the bones belong to Orlandi.
De Pedis was a powerful and charismatic mobster who was ran a gang known as the Banda della Magliana. He was murdered at the age of 38 by members of his own crew after they had an internal dispute, reported the Sun.
Theories surrounding the missing Orlandi suggested that she was taken by De Pedis who wanted to put pressure on the Vatican to recover money that they were owed, reported the Sydney Morning Herald.
Another theory is that she was taken to be used as a bargaining chip in order to release Mehmet ali Agca, the Turkish gunman who attempted to assassinate Pope John Paul II, reportedly on orders from the KGB.
However, Father Amorth rejected these claims. Amorth said he is firm on his theory that the girl was abused and killed as that this was part all part of the conspiracy in the Vatican to cover up the sex parties.
'It led to the murder and then the hiding of her body, he said, reported the Daily Mail. Also involved is diplomatic staff from a foreign embassy to the Holy See.
The Vatican has yet to comment on Father Amorth's claims. However, they did say they have always co-operated with investigation into Emanuela Orlandi's murder.









 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
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#20
Along those same lines, if baptism was a part of the Gospel, then Paul would never have made the distinction, placing baptism as one thing separate from his mission of the Gospel. Wouldn't his mission be also to baptize if that was part of the Gospel?
According to the proposition by the OP, perhaps Paul should have said, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach (part of) the gospel".
The distinction shows separation.
(if this hasn't already been said before)
I think you two have it straight, except that "(part of)" part. Paul and Barnabus preached the gospel as recorded in several places in Acts like Acts 14:7 (KJV) [SUP]7 [/SUP] And there they preached the gospel. I wanted to get that out of the way to get on to this:
Jesus taught another baptism that came after John's baptism of repentance. That is the one Jesus preached about.


Matthew 20:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And he saith unto them,
Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

That is the one that saves and puts us in position to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Then comes that public testimony of John's water baptism as your personal memorial before at least one witness, the one performing that service. John came baptizing before Jesus' baptism came, then has been good to put in after receiving that spirit baptism to commemorate the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and us who are in Christ sharing that experience of Jesus. There is no reason to deny anyone that experience as a physical token of what happens between us and the Lord spiritually. It's a very good work of righteousness, one of many more to come in our lives.