Everyone is predestined before time began

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Godiskindtothewicked

Banned
#1
Nov 19, 2014
19
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0
#1
Before time began and before the foundation of the world(Ephesians 1:4) god choose a certain elect that will be saved, it is not based on anyone's choice to be saved but rather gods sovereign choice to save some people he has chosen to save from the fires of hell. Romans 9:22-23 paints a picture

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory Romans 9:22-23

so if you go to hell it is because god has chosen to send you there, and if your in heaven it is because god chose to save you
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#2
#2
"So, that will be chopped scripture, with a side of troll? Will there be any dessert with that?"
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#4
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#4
ummmm...incorrect...sorry not right....how about...

1. God is the lofty one who inhabits eternity and is out side the realm of time while being able to view all things before they happen...
2. God predetermined that all who would come to him dia Jesus would be received as the children of God..
3. God would have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth
4. God has dealt to every man a measure of faith (ability) to believe
5. MANY are called, but few chosen as MOST reject the word of God
6. MEN have the God given right to exercise faith
7. God had the right and ability to write the text you twisted out of context based upon his ability to know who would believe and who would not believe....!
 
G

Godiskindtothewicked

Banned
#6
Nov 19, 2014
19
1
0
#6
dcontroversal said:
ummmm...incorrect...sorry not right....how about...

1. God is the lofty one who inhabits eternity and is out side the realm of time while being able to view all things before they happen...
2. God predetermined that all who would come to him dia Jesus would be received as the children of God..
3. God would have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth
4. God has dealt to every man a measure of faith (ability) to believe
5. MANY are called, but few chosen as MOST reject the word of God
6. MEN have the God given right to exercise faith
7. God had the right and ability to write the text you twisted out of context based upon his ability to know who would believe and who would not believe....!
Click to expand...
you sound like an arminian
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#7
Apr 18, 2013
9,339
2,427
113
#7
God has predestined me to disbelieve in predestination.

I know... it confuses me too.
 
G

Godiskindtothewicked

Banned
#9
Nov 19, 2014
19
1
0
#9
dcontroversal said:
OK...doesn't matter what you call me...Calvinism is heretical and what I posted is correct...so...choose to follow Calvin and I will choose to follow Christ!
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I dont follow John calvin or any man but jesus, but why does god say in romans 9:16-18 that he will have mercy on he will have mercy and he will harden who he wants to harden?

Calvinism stresses the sovereignty of god which is indeed true, god is the cause of all(romans 11:33-36)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#10
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#10
Godiskindtothewicked said:
I dont follow John calvin or any man but jesus, but why does god say in romans 9:16-18 that he will have mercy on he will have mercy and he will harden who he wants to harden?

Calvinism stresses the sovereignty of god which is indeed true, god is the cause of all(romans 11:33-36)
Click to expand...
Because He is God and does what he wants when he wants....goes to the same points I made above...God knows the choices that men will make before they make them....he done the same thing with Pharaoh in Egypt....The Pharaoh hardened his heart the first couple of times that he was approached by Moses and after he reached a certain Point of rejection God stepped in and hardened his heart even further so God could judge him so as to show that the God of the Hebrews was the true and living God...Same thing at the end of the age....all who will not receive the LOVE OF THE TRUTH with be deluded by God into receiving and accepting the man of sin so as to be damned......God would have ALL men to be saved and come to the truth, but will also lead the workers of iniquity further down the path if they refuse to acknowledge that he might judge them by his eternal truth and righteous judgment...!
 
B

Butch5

Banned
#11
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
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#11
Godiskindtothewicked said:
Before time began and before the foundation of the world(Ephesians 1:4) god choose a certain elect that will be saved, it is not based on anyone's choice to be saved but rather gods sovereign choice to save some people he has chosen to save from the fires of hell. Romans 9:22-23 paints a picture

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory Romans 9:22-23

so if you go to hell it is because god has chosen to send you there, and if your in heaven it is because god chose to save you
Click to expand...

Ephesians 1:4 is not speaking of God choosing who will be saved. That verse is part of a Hebraism, it's a praise to God. Paul is praising God for what He'd done for the Jewish people.
 
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Butch5

Banned
#13
May 2, 2014
1,060
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#13
Godiskindtothewicked said:
I dont follow John calvin or any man but jesus, but why does god say in romans 9:16-18 that he will have mercy on he will have mercy and he will harden who he wants to harden?

Calvinism stresses the sovereignty of god which is indeed true, god is the cause of all(romans 11:33-36)
Click to expand...
You're proof texting passages of Scripture. The passage from Romans 9 is part Paul's explaining to the Jewish believers at Rome how God was fulfilling his promises to Abraham.
 
Zmouth

Zmouth

Senior Member
#14
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
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#14
I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass. Isa 48:3


But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. John 6:64


Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.John 12:44

And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. John 15:27

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 13:8

Did you think the following passage was about Jesus?

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink;
and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the
children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. Luke 1:15-16
 
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ChristIsGod

Guest
#15
#15
Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin --
Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which He foreknew ...


1Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father ...


Romans 8:29 For whom He did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren ...


His Foreknowledge [of how we'll respond to Him] + Our Freewill [our response that He foreknew] = Election.
 
djness

djness

Senior Member
#16
May 16, 2014
502
13
18
#16
You have a very common theme in your threads. My guess is you are mad at God. Do you feel as if you may not be one of the ones he has chosen?
 
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ChristIsGod

Guest
#17
#17
The word Chosen and Elect are the same Greek word. If the OP doesn't think he's one of the elect/chosen - I doubt he'd be sending so many to Hell with his threads. Do you think so, djness? You may have an insight that I'm not getting. TIA
 
GracethroughfaithinChrist

GracethroughfaithinChrist

Senior Member
#18
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
#18
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory Romans 9:22-23

so if you go to hell it is because god has chosen to send you there, and if your in heaven it is because god chose to save you
Click to expand...


That line of thinking is wrong and it's called "double predestination". Double predestination is the belief that God creates some people whose purpose in existence is to be sent to hell.......


Look real close at Romans 9:23, "And he did so in order that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory." Notice that God elects certain people beforehand for His glory. In other words, before the foundation of the world God chose certain people to be His children in order that He would be glorified (see Ephesians 1:4). It does not say that God chose people to damnation or predestined people to wrath.The Bible never speaks about a double predestination where God elects or predestines some to hell, others to heaven. Those who are under God's wrath are in that position because they have rejected God. Those that have the righteousness of God are in that position because God has chosen them to be His children.

What is double predestination?
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#19
#19
Godiskindtothewicked said:
I dont follow John calvin or any man but jesus, but why does god say in romans 9:16-18 that he will have mercy on he will have mercy and he will harden who he wants to harden?

Calvinism stresses the sovereignty of god which is indeed true, god is the cause of all(romans 11:33-36)
Click to expand...
But in post #3 you picked out Calvin's "U" out of his TULIP ..........?

If you pick one letter out of TULIP - the other 4 fall as well --- yet you're For the "U" but not the "P"?

For or against ... TULIP can only stand as a 5 lettered 'flower'/belief system.

Freewill destroys the whole of TULIP.

You've posted a form of Freewill in your other thread, so how can you keep up what's left of the TULIP that you've kept?

Interesting.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#20
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#20
ChristIsGod said:
Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin --
Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which He foreknew ...


1Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father ...


Romans 8:29 For whom He did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren ...


His Foreknowledge [of how we'll respond to Him] + Our Freewill [our response that He foreknew] = Election.
Click to expand...
I agree...and state it this way...God predetermined before the casting down of the world that all who would come to him through Christ would be received as full grown sons and daughters....His ability to see what choice we would make coupled with his pre-determined will = election and or being chosen!
 
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