WORD OF FAITH., PROSPERITY GOSPEL????

[ladylynn]

It is clear to me over the last months here on CC how very misunderstood prosperity for the Christian is perceived - even when the very word is used. Some Christians pounce on it as if you are talking about blatant sin. Even dear kind sweet Christians who I have come to respect here on CC lose sight of anything said after the words..."prosperity" or "word of faith"

All reasoning stops and only preconceived thoughts are able to bounce around their heads.
I left the bible study room frustrated that no matter what I tried to say it, I could not get through the preconcieved views of my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. Even using the word "LOVE" was not safe because somehow I didn't also talk of judgment.

I was accused of preaching a false gospel. When I shared about how the Lord had taken my life and brought it out of the pit and onto solid ground, some accused me of not trusting in Jesus but only on what Jesus could do for me.

God is our Father and He loves us. He promises to take care of us and bring us out into a dry land. A place of safety and an abundant life that only He can give. And yet many Christians can only see the earthly problems around them and focus on the sad and temporal things this world has to offer.

Our minds are the place where many of our spiritual battles are won or lost. For those like me, our minds were full of fear and dread. Many were like me and did not leave the house, living in a world where they meet people on line only. Fear had taken hold in their minds and become part of who they are. But JESUS has more for us!!!. That is not who we are ANYMORE!

That is my testimony, He changed my mind (granted repentance) and gave it soundness where only fear and confusion ruled for years. The ugliness that we cannot understand or fathom is defeated each day because Jesus put us in the family. The death and destruction that God never created us for has been defeated IN CHRIST. We now walk as kings and priests in this present world. (but many call this a false gospel) (???????)

How often I hear Christians talk about the suffering dying saints of old. But NEVER do they talk about the joyful, victorious., excited to be alive Christians of old., and since they see no joyful Christians of old, they think there are NO joyful Christians now either! Yes, there were some joyous Christians in the Bible and many who wrote books of their joyful delightful life IN CHRIST. I am shocked so many Christians on CC do not want to even know about them or even believe we exsist!

We do and our numbers are increasing!!! Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation.... It must be world wide in Christian circles because my devotional this morning also says the first thing people do is think of the negative. Instinctively because of our human nature. BUT NOW WE HAVE A NEW NATURE and we are supposed to live by faith NOT by sight!!

1 Thess. 5:8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.

This means we CHOOSE to believe that this trial will pass and that GOD our Father will see us through.

Again, it says we will perservere , our preservation is in God's hands and His hands are solid and able. Even though we do NOT know what the next day will bring, our helmet of salvation gives us the ABILITY to have - good expectation - of God's hand IN our life. Not bad expectation of God NOT in our life. (He IS our life)

The rain falls on everyone but if you are a child of God it falls differently for sure on you!!!! But if you don't believe that and you refuse to trust God will abide, then the experience of faith will not be felt. This cannot be argued.

The mind is where these battles are waged. It pleases the Father when we trust Him and expect from Him. Why do so many Christians fight this truth tooth and nail?? Why is it preaching a false gospel to say I believe God loves us enough to follow through with His promises to care and love us?? To protect us and be on our side?? It is a truth that is sweet.

There is NO power when I lack faith in the Lord who secured my salvation IN HIS SON JESUS. I will not let Jesus sacrafice be in vein in my life by not believing what He says He will do. For all of us who walk the path of faith and see the horrors of the world and yet can walk in confidence INSPITE of the sickness and death all around us., I say keep up the good fight brothers and sisters! Believe regardless of what your eyes see!!!!!

Dare to believe what He said He will do and don't look at other people, but look to JESUS. He is the One we are told to behold.

Psalm 91 HE WHO DWELLS IN THE SECRET PLACE OF THE MOST HIGH WILL ABIDE UNDER THE SHADOW OF THE ALMIGHTY.

This is to be taken LITERALLY!!!

I WILL SAY (WE SHOULD SAY IT) OF THE LORD HE IS MY REFUGE AND MY FORTRESS, MY GOD, IN HIM WILL I TRUST. (not the bad news on tv or the weather reports)

FOR THEN HE WILL DELIVER YOU FROM THE SNARE OF THE FOWLER AND FROM THE DEADLY PESTILENCE...
like the deadly illnesses the news delivers us daily on tv and radio. Do we believe He will deliver us from those things?????? I submit to you in the Bible study room - what do you give weight to??? the illnesses., cancer.,, head choppings??? or that HE will deliver you from those things? I chose to believe He will deliver me. And you can too!

THEN HE WILL COVER YOU WITH HIS PINIONS AND UNDER HIS WINGS SHALL YOU TRUST AND FIND REFUGE; HIS TRUTH AND HIS FAITHFULNESS ARE A SHIELD AND A BUCKLER.
He is faithful!!!
YOU SHALL NOT BE AFRAID OF THE TERROR OF THE NIGHT, NOR OF THE ARROW THE EVIL PLOTS AND SLANDERS OF THE WICKED THAT FLIES BY DAY.

NOR OF THE PESTILENCE THAT STALKS IN THE DARKNESS, NOR OF THE DESTRUCTION AND SUDDEN DEATH THAT SURPRISE AND LAY WASTE AT NOONDAY.

It's always the sudden things that we fear will come upon us without warning. How much better life is when we don't even THINK that way any longer!!! He gives this ability!!

A THOUSAND MAY FALL AT YOUR SIDE, AND TEN THOUSAND AT YOUR RIGHT HAND, BUT IT SHALL NOT COME NEAR YOU.

At some point in our lives we either will believe this or not., or wonder why it is put in the bible and just sit on the fence not knowing what to think. I and many others who you call word of faith people., take this literally. And I also trust that I will not be put to shame for trusting in Him. I must walk by faith daily and not think like some of you in the bible study room said... "she is going to be surprised when horrible things happen and she is not protected." I accept by faith He will come through and that is all I need to understand. Faith is NOT about understanding ,, it is about believing what God promises against alllll odds. Heb. 11:1

ONLY A SPECTATOR SHALL YOU BE..YOURSELF INACCESSIBLE IN THE SECRET PLACE OF THE MOST HIGH AS YOU WITNESS THE REWARD OF THE WICKED

How is this possible??????? seeing it all around you and only being a spectator?? you yourself being inaccessible???? makes absolutely NO sense. Yet to accept it by faith gives life meaning.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE MADE THE LORD YOUR REFUGE AND THE MOST HIGH YOUR DWELLING PLACE.,

THERE SHALL NO EVIL BEFALL YOU, NOR ANY PLAGUE OR CALAMITY COME NEAR YOUR TENT.

FOR HE WILL GIVE HIS ANGELS ESPECIAL CHARGE OVER YOU TO ACCOMPANY AND DEFEND AND PRESERVE YOU IN ALL YOUR WAYS OF OBEDIENCE AND SERVICE.

THEY SHALL BEAR YOU UP ON THEIR HANDS LEST YOU DASH YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.

YOU SHALL TREAD UPON THE LION AND THE ADDER; THE YOUNG LION AND THE SERPENT SHALL YOU TRAMPLE UNDERFOOT

BECAUSE HE HAS SET HIS LOVE UPON ME, THEREFORE WILL I DELIVER HIM; I WILL SET HIM ON HIGH, BECAUSE HE KNOWS AND UNDERSTANDS MY NAME. HAS A PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF MY MERCY, LOVE, AND KINDNESS---TRUSTS AND RELIES ON ME, KNOWING I WILL NEVER FORSAKE HIM NO NEVER.

HE SHALL CALL UPON ME, AND I WILL ANSWER HIM; I WILL BE WITH HIM IN TROUBLE, I WILL DELIVER HIM AND HONOR HIM.

WITH LONG LIFE WILL I SATISFY HIM AND SHOW HIM MY SALVATION..

These verses are true., they are for us today. Don't be angry at those who are your brothers and sisters in Christ who have stepped forward and began to walk this road of faith. We don't understand Christians like George Mueller who actually prayed for the meal before it arrived as he confidently waited for God to feed the orphans. This kind of faith pleases the Father. Don't discourage Christians when they look with confident expectation that God will work in each situation.

 

[SolidGround]

Except for the 1st paragraph, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I think the issue you may have had with others is over terms.

Those two terms mean very specific things in doctrinal discussions:
-Word of Faith means that if you pray it with enough belief, then God is required to obey you.
-Prosperity doctrine means that if you are faithful, and give money to the Church, then God will bless you financially/medically.

Those two doctrines are certainly a false gospel,
but what you spoke of was dealing with grace in the here and now, hope in the here and now, joy in the here and now, and power in the here and now. Those are all promises of God that we can lay claim to as Believers.

Health, wealth, and achieved goals are not promises of God to Believers. < these are what those phrases that you used represent.

Even the poorest and sickliest of Believers can have grace, hope, joy, and power.
Beware of any preacher who says that poverty is evil. Our Lord was not raised in a palace, nor did He build one on earth.
-Mat 6:21 Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

-John 18:36
-2 Corinthians 5:1

this doesn't mean that God never gives healing, or wealth to Believers, but that those blessings are based on God's purposes, not our level of faith or our behaviors.

I enjoyed your essay, and was encouraged by it. I hope this helps you in forgiving those who offended you, and understanding their position. From what you have posted, it sounds like more of a misunderstanding than a true disagreement.

 

[Ugly]

Big bold letters and all caps do not make your point clearer. Just makes it harder to read. Not that i would bother reading it all as i've looked into this teaching myself and i wholeheartedly reject it as even a Christian teaching. But yeah, the big, bold lettering didn't help one bit.

 

[Straightshot]

To the OP

When you say "prosperity gospel" which is generally associated with the "word of faith" movements are you talking about the "name it and claim it" theology of those like Kenneth Copland or Joyce Meyers?

 

[Jason0047]

In regards to the prosperity Gospel and the name it and claim it bunch: Well, 1 Timothy 6 says that there are those who think Godliness is gain. The man of God is supposed to flee in coveting after riches. Our thoughts are not God's thoughts. The Lord our God is not a magical genie nor is He like a Coke machine where you put your quarter in so as to expect something immediately in return. We are to glorify Jesus Christ His way and not our own way.

There is a joy and peace in Christ without the external things of this world. Fellowship is a part of that joy. But it is not about stuff or getting what you want.

 

[Jason0047]

This is why I believe multi level marketing is another gospel.

 

[notuptome]

The death of His saints is precious in His sight but the death of the wicked is not so.

The is joy in death for the saint of God. There is always mourning for the death of the wicked.

There is Spiritual joy and earthly carnal joy. The latter is fleeting and only that joy we have in Christ is eternal. Eternal joy is not of this earth but of the Lord.

Paul said I know how to abound and how to be abased yet in all I glorify God.

Christians ought to rejoice in the Lord no matter their circumstances.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think Paul said it best.

Paul was shipwrecked, Stoned, left for dead. Had to travel hundreds of miles on foot. Jailed, SHackled in chains, and all things that many claim would be pain and suffering,

yet he considered it all a momentary light affliction, and considered it all joy. Even in acts, the apostles had just been beaten, and they considered it joy to suffer for Christ.

I agree with the OP in that many christians today do nothing but complain and cry over their suffering, and there is no joy in their hearts. I think they forgot their first love. As paul and these apostles looked to eternity, and not the momentary affliction in this day, There is nothing like a person dieing of cancer who has joy and peace in their heart. or a person who lost a job with joy and faith in God to take care of them in their hour of trial and trouble.

It is one thing to be rich in money and things (which the faith/prosperity gospel teaches) it is a far other thing to be rich in the love and joy of God no matter what life throws at us.

 

[ladylynn]

Big bold letters and all caps do not make your point clearer. Just makes it harder to read. Not that i would bother reading it all as i've looked into this teaching myself and i wholeheartedly reject it as even a Christian teaching. But yeah, the big, bold lettering didn't help one bit.

Hello Ugly., The big bold letters were the scripture verses.,not my words. I used them for my own benefit in posting so it would be easier to comment on the bible verses...

Notice...my comments were not big and bold., but hey..you made it clear you that of course you wouldn't have read it all as you "already" know the teaching. But you see Ugly., you proved my point LOL. You only read the first few words (word of faith) and (prosperity gospel) and rejected the rest AND effectively rejected the bible verses .... not my points.

Can't help but wonder how well you actually did look into this teaching and how you have wholeheartedly rejected it as even a Christian teaching... but yes., big and bold doesn't work for you, doesn't help one bit..., good to know.

 

[Jason0047]

Do you believe in the Prosperity Gospel and or in the belief that you can name it and claim it?

 

[Joidevivre]

I take Jesus' words to heart when He said, 'If my words abide in you, ask what you will and it shall be given to you'.

So, if I am reading a promise of Gods in the scriptures, and the Holy Spirit quickens it to me as the voice of Jesus as His will for my life in the present moment, I receive that promise and begin my praises for it.

Or in other words, I "name and claim" only what the Holy Spirit tells me to. I have been sick and yet did not feel to claim the scriptures for healing until later when it was like "Now it is yours". And indeed it was. The waiting served a purpose in spiritually growing me in many ways.

We all need to listen to His words and will for our lives. And pray that.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

It's amazing to me that so many Christians hold onto Satan's definition of "Word of Faith". The true meaning of it is simply agreeing with God in all things, returning His own words back to Him, which will never be found void of purpose. Instead of praying "If it be thy will, heal me of cancer.", I pray appropriate scriptures of promise in faith believing God certainly hears such prayers and answers according to the promises.

God has not promised believers poverty. I thank God daily for prosperity forthe purpose of establishing the gospel. There is an eternal principle in Deuteronomy 8:18-19 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.

It is God who has consistently honored that attitude for my wife and I, who knows what our bank account reflects concerning the primary use of wealth gotten through His giving of power to get wealth. He has blessed us with profitable ideas, keeping us in private business for many years, even while I pursued a career and retired from it. I never take credit for what we have enjoyed, and we are not ashamed over asking for blessings, and receiving them as prayed for, such as healing from diseases the doctors couldn't fix. When our church, wherever we were had a financial crisis, we prayed the solutions in rather than resign ourselves to some random "luck" or happenstance pattern based on a poverty mentality all around us.

Word of Faith among "Word of Faith Christians" is summarized in Jesus' answer to Satan. Matthew 4:3-4 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

But instead I find precious few Christians that can recite more than one verse of scripture, usually John 3:16 alone, most not able to locate any verse apart from that one if they have book tabs on their pages. Most never talk the scriptures, but will tell all about the many crises local, state, federal, and world. "We just don't know what will become of us, do we?" I reject that, speaking the promises to believers who actually believe something God says to believe. Men in every church I have associated with criticize me for not balancing my conversation, giving equal time to sports, fishing, hunting, golf, etc. That's OK. I am frequently named by them as "Bible Thumper", while serving as their Bible teacher and sometimes preacher. Those few hours in the week are just too precious to neglect the word of God there, as that's the sum of what they get all week. I can talk the other subjects when we meet on the launch ramps at the lake, or at work. Many question our mention of any TV preacher, automatically suspecting them of "Blab it and Grab it". That is a devilish distortion of the truth of "Word of Faith". Instead, folks prefer to blab and grab failure, or be silent and take what crumbs they can sweep up.

For a fair and balanced picture of actual "Word of Faith" in practice I highly recommend moorelife.org. Keith Moore preaches and confesses the Bible, his church touching the lives of millions for good, and will help folks get past the "Name it and claim it" suspicions.

 

[dcontroversal]

There is a fine line to be found for sure....God promises food, clothing and shelter to those who seek his kingdom first and foremost....He also states clearly that in the world you shall have tribulation and if you walk righteously you will be hated of all (worldly) men for his sake. He also states that those who love the word of God and who will walk according to it will be (blessed) in their deed. But lest we also forget...many a faithful man and or woman of God have went to their demise and death for the cause of Christ through the ages and even in death for the cause there is deliverance found in Jesus. If we SUFFER with HIM we will also REIGN with him. No where does God promise to answer all of your prayers in the affirmative and no where does he promise that you will be rich in the worlds goods if you serve him and seek him. Labor that you may have to give to him that needeth.....!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I take Jesus' words to heart when He said, 'If my words abide in you, ask what you will and it shall be given to you'.

So, if I am reading a promise of Gods in the scriptures, and the Holy Spirit quickens it to me as the voice of Jesus as His will for my life in the present moment, I receive that promise and begin my praises for it.

Or in other words, I "name and claim" only what the Holy Spirit tells me to. I have been sick and yet did not feel to claim the scriptures for healing until later when it was like "Now it is yours". And indeed it was. The waiting served a purpose in spiritually growing me in many ways.

We all need to listen to His words and will for our lives. And pray that.

the problem is when people say God will ALWAYS give you what you desire. this is not what the passage claims.

It is awesome God healed you. but what about the people who had faith and did not experience healing. The prosperity and faith gospel preachers would say they never had faith, if they did, God would have healed them, this is a dangerous doctrine.

 

[dcontroversal]

I take Jesus' words to heart when He said, 'If my words abide in you, ask what you will and it shall be given to you'.

So, if I am reading a promise of Gods in the scriptures, and the Holy Spirit quickens it to me as the voice of Jesus as His will for my life in the present moment, I receive that promise and begin my praises for it.

Or in other words, I "name and claim" only what the Holy Spirit tells me to. I have been sick and yet did not feel to claim the scriptures for healing until later when it was like "Now it is yours". And indeed it was. The waiting served a purpose in spiritually growing me in many ways.

We all need to listen to His words and will for our lives. And pray that.

Some ask and receive not because they ask amiss so as to consume it upon their own lust.....If we ask within the will of God then we will receive....if we ask because of lust...forget it as the answer will probably be NO!

 

[posthuman]

the plans of the Lord are to bless us and not to harm us, for sure and AMEN!!

but we need to keep our eyes on Him, and not on earthly things, because His plans for us are not carnal:

Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
(Matthew 6:19-21)

some people do not recognize where God's treasure is, and cannot separate "prosperity" from earthly wealth & bodily comfort. that is where and why the connotation of 'prosperity gospel' et al becomes offensive to us in the Faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some ask and receive not because they ask amiss so as to consume it upon their own lust.....If we ask within the will of God then we will receive....if we ask because of lust...forget it as the answer will probably be NO!

true, but even if we ask not for lust, God may say no. he might have different plans.

 

[posthuman]

*** sees priceless pearl ***

*** buys whole field ***

*** discovers some of the field is useless ***

*** rejoices over pearl anyway ***

 

[ladylynn]

It's amazing to me that so many Christians hold onto Satan's definition of "Word of Faith". The true meaning of it is simply agreeing with God in all things, returning His own words back to Him, which will never be found void of purpose. Instead of praying "If it be thy will, heal me of cancer.", I pray appropriate scriptures of promise in faith believing God certainly hears such prayers and answers according to the promises.





Amen!!!! Well said brother

God has not promised believers poverty. I thank God daily for prosperity forthe purpose of establishing the gospel. There is an eternal principle in Deuteronomy 8:18-19 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.

It is God who has consistently honored that attitude for my wife and I, who knows what our bank account reflects concerning the primary use of wealth gotten through His giving of power to get wealth. He has blessed us with profitable ideas, keeping us in private business for many years, even while I pursued a career and retired from it. I never take credit for what we have enjoyed, and we are not ashamed over asking for blessings, and receiving them as prayed for, such as healing from diseases the doctors couldn't fix. When our church, wherever we were had a financial crisis, we prayed the solutions in rather than resign ourselves to some random "luck" or happenstance pattern based on a poverty mentality all around us.


How wonderful to hear another believer say this here!!! For it is exactly what I have been finding since taking God at His word. He healed me and is healing me each day and I give Him all the credit for any good thing that happends in my life. Amen!! He is our Father and because of Jesus we are blessed and not cursed. We are loved as dear children. To know this is to be truly joyful in the Holy Ghost.

Word of Faith among "Word of Faith Christians" is summarized in Jesus' answer to Satan. Matthew 4:3-4 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.




Amen!!

But instead I find precious few Christians that can recite more than one verse of scripture, usually John 3:16 alone, most not able to locate any verse apart from that one if they have book tabs on their pages. Most never talk the scriptures, but will tell all about the many crises local, state, federal, and world. "We just don't know what will become of us, do we?" I reject that, speaking the promises to believers who actually believe something God says to believe. Men in every church I have associated with criticize me for not balancing my conversation, giving equal time to sports, fishing, hunting, golf, etc. That's OK. I am frequently named by them as "Bible Thumper", while serving as their Bible teacher and sometimes preacher. Those few hours in the week are just too precious to neglect the word of God there, as that's the sum of what they get all week. I can talk the other subjects when we meet on the launch ramps at the lake, or at work. Many question our mention of any TV preacher, automatically suspecting them of "Blab it and Grab it". That is a devilish distortion of the truth of "Word of Faith". Instead, folks prefer to blab and grab failure, or be silent and take what crumbs they can sweep up.


Exactly!!!! so well said. Thank you!!!!!



For a fair and balanced picture of actual "Word of Faith" in practice I highly recommend moorelife.org. Keith Moore preaches and confesses the Bible, his church touching the lives of millions for good, and will help folks get past the "Name it and claim it" suspicions.

Oh my dear brother in Christ you have encouraged me with your wonderful post. So indeed there ARE other Christians here on CC who DO understand what a proper definition of "Word of Faith" is. I whole heartedly agree with everything you said.

Like you and your wife, when I began to actually take God at His word, my life changed. To know the Word of God and to learn the principles of His love and grace brings so much joy it can hardly be contained!! Please let us keep intouch here on CC. My cup runneth over!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

true, but even if we ask not for lust, God may say no. he might have different plans.

I agree...key to my statement was (within the will of GOD)......

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Some ask and receive not because they ask amiss so as to consume it upon their own lust.....If we ask within the will of God then we will receive....if we ask because of lust...forget it as the answer will probably be NO!