Rahab

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Jillyanne

Guest
#1
Based on 2peter:2 and several other verses, God is clear about submitting to government/authority, isn't this a contradiction to Rahabs treason?
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
895
18
18
#2
Based on 2peter:2 and several other verses, God is clear about submitting to government/authority, isn't this a contradiction to Rahabs treason?
The apostles too seem to have been willing to go to prison to defy the authorities.

Technically, Jesus himself was executed as a criminal against the Roman empire.
 
J

Jillyanne

Guest
#3
Ok, so helppppppppp.
 
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Jillyanne

Guest
#4
I guess Rahab sticks out to me more than the others because she defied it
 
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Jillyanne

Guest
#5
I just read story of Rahab, and seemed like an apparent contradiction, just wanted clarity :)
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#6
Mark 12:17, "Thus Yahshua declared, saying to them: Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to Yahweh the things that are Yahweh's. And they marveled at Him."


Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's:

Romans 13:8, "Owe no man anything, except to love one another, for he who loves another has performed the Law. For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in this (Law Leviticus 19:18); namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love works no harm to his neighbor; therefore, love is the fulness of the Law."

Titus 1:9, "Holding fast the teaching according to the faithful word in order that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and to refute those who contradict."

Leviticus 19:17, "You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt."

Luke 17:3-4, "So be on your guard! If your brother trespasses against you, rebuke him! But if he repents, forgive him! And if he trespasses against you seven times in one day, and seven times in that day turns to you, and says; I repent; then you must forgive him."


to Yahweh the things that are Yahweh's:

Romans 6:13, "And do not offer the members of your body to sin, as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to Yahweh, as those who have returned from death to life, and offer the members of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#7
1 Maccabees 1:43-50, "All the Gentiles accepted the command of the king. Many even from Israel gladly adopted his religion; they sacrificed to idols and profaned the sabbath. And the king sent letters by messengers to Jerusalem and the cities of Judah; he directed them to follow customs strange to the land, to forbid burnt offerings and sacrifices and drink offerings in the sanctuary, to profane sabbaths and feasts, to defile the sanctuary and the priests, to build altars and sacred precincts and shrines for idol sacrifice swine and unclean animals, and to leave their sons uncircumcised. They were to make themselves abominable by everything unclean and profane, so that they should forget the law and change all the ordinances.And whoever does not obey the command of the king shall die.” 62-64, "But many in Israel stood firm and were resolved in their hearts not to eat unclean food. They chose to die rather than to be defiled by food or to profane the holy covenant; and they did die. And very great wrath came upon Israel."

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Revelation 13:3, "...and all the world wondered; followed, after the beast."
 
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psalm6819

Guest
#8
When we read the Bible we mus always look for Jesus. It's better when unclear to read scripture surrounding the passage in question. Rahab is a picture or a shadow of the gentile Bride of Christ. I don't wanna talk over your head. I think that Rahab was behaving in a righteous manner. She was protecting God's children, soldiers from Israel. We ARE to respect governmental authority until or unless it contradicts the laws of God. Hope that helps alittle...
 
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Jillyanne

Guest
#9
Thank you!!!!
 
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psalm6819

Guest
#10
You are most welcome. :)
+
 
J

Jillyanne

Guest
#12
Why is that?
 
J

Jillyanne

Guest
#13
Oh, I see, sorry....computer illiterate :)
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#14
When we read the Bible we mus always look for Jesus.
another of the best lines i've ever seen here. :)
The Messiah is the One Yahweh says we must hear and obey. Yahshua (Jesus) teachings were perfect, 100%

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
113
#16
Rahab holds a place of honour among the Jews because she obeyed God, rather than men.

"But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men." Acts 5:29

She did not listen to the Canaanites, whom God promised to destroy, but held onto the promise that God would save her. You really can't talk about Rahab being disobedient to the rulers of Jericho who were about to be destroyed because of their pagan worship and practices. The Canaanites were evil, so anyone that stood against them, was with God.

She held onto what was good - that is, the living and true God. She was rewarded, despite her being a prostitute, by becoming one of the members of the lineage of David and hence Jesus Christ.

"The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Abraham was the father of Isaac, and Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, [SUP]3 [/SUP]and Judah the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, and Perez the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Ram, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and Ram the father of Amminadab, and Amminadab the father of Nahshon, and Nahshon the father of Salmon, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and Salmon the father of Boaz by Rahab, and Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse, [SUP]6 [/SUP]and Jesse the father of David the king." Matt 1:1-6

There is no problem with Rahab, as she submitted to God, and helped save the Hebrew spies. If she had not hid the spies and done what she did, she and her family would have perished when God collapsed the walls of Jericho, and destroyed the people. She is a small foreshadowing of the Messiah, really. Because Jesus did not obey the authorities on many occasions, like when they were seeking to kill him, and it "was not his time."

Really, there are no contradictions in the Bible, just misunderstandings because you need to take the whole text, God's purposes and God's will into account. Paul in Romans was speaking to a specific time of persecution, and to a specific audience.

"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God." Romans 13:1


In addition, Rahab also lived in a very specific time, where God had promised Abraham and his descendants they would conquer the land. So you can't take a verse in Romans and apply it back to the conquest of Israel. That is just bad hermeneutics!
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#17
[video=youtube;aFysYErsgGA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFysYErsgGA[/video]

Movie time popcorneating.png
 

EmethAlethia

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2014
244
26
18
#18
Act 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.
The point is this. Obey God, and as long as the head of the family doesn't contradict higher authority, obey him, and as long as your religious leaders don't contradict higher authority, obey them, and as long as the government doesn't contradict higher authority, obey them. Children are also supposed to obey their mothers as well.

Ultimately, if God says do it, or don't do it, follow that. When earthly authorities require you to disobey what God says, you must disobey them rather than God. And yes, following the chain of command can get you in trouble with the religious leaders, the government ... your father and mother ... because most earthly authorities believe themselves to be greater than every other authority.
 
G

Gandalf

Guest
#19
The Messiah is the One Yahweh says we must hear and obey. Yahshua (Jesus) teachings were perfect, 100%

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"
Yeshua is everywhere in the Bible and once you start looking for Him you will find it :)

Revelation in the names of Genesis 5

ADAM– “man” / “mankind” (Root word “Adamah” which means “earth”
SET – “Appointed” / “Appointed another seed”
ENOSH – “Mortal” / “Being Mortal” from the Hebrew Root word “Anash”
KENAN – “Sorrow”
MAHALALEL – Consists of two Hebrew words:“Mahalal” which means “Blessed’ / “Praised” and “EL” which means God. The name thus means: “Blessed/Praised of YHVH”
YERED – “Shall Descend” / “Shall come down”
CHANOCH (ENOCH) – means “teaching” “To teach/instruct people”
MATUSHELACH – consists of two Hebrew words:
Met – which means “death”
Shelach – which means “Shall bring forth” Put them together and it reads “Death shall bring forth”
LAMECH–“Despairing” / “Those in despair”
NOACH– “Comfort” / “Rest”

Together: “Man/Mankind appointed mortal sorrow. The blessed/praised of YHVH shall descend/come down and teach/instruct people that His death shall bring, those in despair, comfort/rest.
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
895
18
18
#20
Ok, so helppppppppp.
Here's how I think of it: submit to authorities so long as they abide by natural law, reason, and morality. I don't think God requires anyone to submit to an authority that behaves contrary to the way he ordered the universe. If, for extreme example, an authority requires you to commit some sort of atrocity, you are not required by God to do so - in fact, he may require you to take a stand against it or perhaps work to reform the situation.

I think 1 Pet 2 is referring to the submission to lawful governance. You should recognize the authority of those who "punish wrongdoers and praise those who do good" (2:14). However, if the believer in 1 Pe 2 suffered unjustly because of their Christian faith, then they were to respond to it just as Jesus had.