Jews

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Oct 15, 2014
149
1
0
#21
This is what the word Jew means.

G2453
Ἰουδαῖος
Ioudaios

ee-oo-dah'-yos
From G2448 (in the sense of G2455 as a country);
{udaean} that {is} belonging to Jehudah: - Jew ({-ess}) of Juda.




G2448
Ἰουδά
Iouda
ee-oo-dah'
Of Hebrew origin [ H3063 ] or perhaps [ H3194 ];
Judah (that {is} Jehudah or {Juttah }) a part of (or place in) Palestine: - Judah.


G2455
Ἰουδάς
Ioudas
ee-oo-das'

Of Hebrew origin [ H3063 ];
Judas (that {is} { Jehudah }) the name of ten Israelites; also of the posterity of one of them and its region: - Juda ({-h} -s); Jude.



So you can be called, Jew, from being from the tribe of Judah, or a resident of Judea . They lived in and around the Israelites, in Jerusalem , so they got the name from being identified with the region in which they lived.


Read Christ's teachings on the Parable of the sower of tares . And after he teaches in a parable, then after read His explanation not speaking in a parable , but explaining it plainly.


[h=1]Revelation 2:9King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]9 [/SUP]I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.



the churches Christ was happy with, taught this., if they dont, then He was against them for watering this truth down to the point its hidden today

 
Last edited:
Nov 3, 2014
1,045
5
0
#22
My comments

First of all understand that the Lord is addressing the early assembly of the Church .... not the "Jews" of Judaism

All of the evaluations made are about early Christians .... not the "Jews"

And the same evaluations stand today .... nothing has changed

He says that there are members of the professing church who claim that they are "Jews" and are not

A "Jew" claiming to be a "Jew" is not the issue in this evaluation .... of course "Jews" are "Jews

What He does is liken those Gentiles of the professing church who claim to have replaced Israel and that Israel [in this case "Jews"] has been done away with .... that His nation of Israel corporately is no longer a valid national entity

He describes them being as perverted as the unbelieving "Jews" of Judaism that worship in the synagogue .... and He then says that they are like them who are worshiping Satan

Get this straight .... those of today who practice replacement theology with a good measure of preterism added are the subjects of His warning

They tout that they are the new "Israel", God is finished with the reprobate nation of Israel, we are now in the cat bird seat alone .... no room for national Israel in our exclusive favor

Their preterism allows for this behavior by shoving all of national Israel into the past with no future involvement in the Lord's prophetic word .... and when it is pointed out to the same of this snide position and giving them the very prophecies they boldly refute, they take the literal that stands in their way and turn it into metaphorical mush .... "it does not mean what it says" they will tell you

The Lord's position on those who do this is serious and should not be taken lightly or explained away

One had better know and remember that He intends to do exactly with His national people as His prophecies have documented regarding Israel's future

.... and that He is a "Jew" by His humanity [Revelation 5:5] .... and not a white anglo-saxon cowboy

And the minute that His national kin show up in the Middle East again after 2000 years of dispersion the replacement theologist must answer .... and they yell "fake Jews"

If you are following the same crowd rethink you position and take His warning seriously
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#23
My comments

First of all understand that the Lord is addressing the early assembly of the Church .... not the "Jews" of Judaism

All of the evaluations made are about early Christians .... not the "Jews"

And the same evaluations stand today .... nothing has changed

He says that there are members of the professing church who claim that they are "Jews" and are not

A "Jew" claiming to be a "Jew" is not the issue in this evaluation .... of course "Jews" are "Jews

What He does is liken those Gentiles of the professing church who claim to have replaced Israel and that Israel [in this case "Jews"] has been done away with .... that His nation of Israel corporately is no longer a valid national entity

He describes them being as perverted as the unbelieving "Jews" of Judaism that worship in the synagogue .... and He then says that they are like them who are worshiping Satan

Get this straight .... those of today who practice replacement theology with a good measure of preterism added are the subjects of His warning

They tout that they are the new "Israel", God is finished with the reprobate nation of Israel, we are now in the cat bird seat alone .... no room for national Israel in our exclusive favor

Their preterism allows for this behavior by shoving all of national Israel into the past with no future involvement in the Lord's prophetic word .... and when it is pointed out to the same of this snide position and giving them the very prophecies they boldly refute, they take the literal that stands in their way and turn it into metaphorical mush .... "it does not mean what it says" they will tell you

The Lord's position on those who do this is serious and should not be taken lightly or explained away

One had better know and remember that He intends to do exactly with His national people as His prophecies have documented regarding Israel's future

.... and that He is a "Jew" by His humanity [Revelation 5:5] .... and not a white anglo-saxon cowboy

And the minute that His national kin show up in the Middle East again after 2000 years of dispersion the replacement theologist must answer .... and they yell "fake Jews"

If you are following the same crowd rethink you position and take His warning seriously



Excellent,if I could give you a standing ovation I would! Great post.Agree 100% with you
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#25
Abrahams physical decendents, like sand, everywhere north,south,east,west spread around the world.

and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers
Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth”

all the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory,belong sole to Israel

12And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers,
I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels,
and I will establish his kingdom.(in solomon)

He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men,
and with the stripes of the children of men:

But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
16And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

34Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand:
but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake,
whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:

16And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers;
and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land,
whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

17Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them,
and I will (hide my face from them), and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them;
so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?

18And I will surely ?(hide my face) in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought,
in that they are turned unto other gods.


29For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I
have commanded you; and evil will befall you in (the latter days); because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord,
to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.

19And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

20And he said, I will (hide my face) from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

21They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities:
and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

22For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase,
and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

23I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.

24They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction:
I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.
25The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin,
the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.

26I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make (the remembrance) of them to cease from among men:

History does record their captivity by Assyria, 721-718 b.c. They were removed from their cities, towns and farms
in their northern part of Palestine, taken as slaves to Assyria, on the southern shores of the Caspian Sea.

But by 604-585 b.c., when the southern kingdom of Judah was taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon,
the Assyrians had migrated northwest—and the 10-tribed Israelites with them!


“For the children of Israel walked in all
the (sins of Jeroboam) which he did;
“Therefore the [Eternal] was very angry with Israel,
and removed them out of his sight:

there was (none left) but the tribe of Judah only” (2 Kings 17:18).
Israel began to be “carried away out of their own land to Assyria” (2 Kings 17:23).


“And I will wait upon the Lord, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob(sinful Isreal) Isaiah 8:17:

God hidding his face from them, striped of name, heritage,
sign of idenity(sabbath), lost from mans view.

Isreal became slaves, then lost to the world, dispersed with there captures.by deforce, becoming the lost 10 tribes,

15Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend;

130 year after Isreal lost and long gone, judah goes captive.

that faithless one, Israel, how she?…?played the harlot??…?

[A]nd her false sister Judah saw it. She saw that for
all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel,
I had sent her away with a decree of divorce;
yet her false sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the harlot also.
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery

I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah
feared not,but went and played the harlot also.Jeremiah 3:8 (KJV)

I will remove Judah also out of my sight, as I have removed Israel,
and will cast off this city Jerusalem which I have chosen,
and the house of which I said, My name shall be there” (2 Kings 23:27).

7And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass,
that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.

8And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among
the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep:
who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.


But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

9"With weeping they will come, And by supplication I will lead them; I will make them walk by streams of waters,
On a straight path in which they will not stumble; For I am a father to Israel, And Ephraim is My firstborn."

10Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, And declare in the coastlands afar off, And say,
"He who scattered Israel will gather him And keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock."

11For the LORD has ransomed Jacob And redeemed him from the hand of him who was stronger than he.…
 
Nov 3, 2014
1,045
5
0
#26
"In Rev 2:9, it's some Jews who were slandering people in the church in Smyrna."


There were no orthodox "Jews" present in the assemblies .... they would not go there in the first place, only those few that became believers

Even if one happened to visit and said they were a "Jew" .... this they would be

Same today .... and orthodox of Judaism is not frequenting the professing church and slandering

The Lord is speaking to His Church, then and today, and one of the negative evaluations that He hates is that the professing church is entertaining those of the Gentiles that claim to be "Jews" who replace national Israel with themselves, tout anti-Semitism, and spread the false doctrine of preterism

If you are in one of these religious organizations you can be assured that you are listening to the "father of lies" .... and many other deceptions are attached

Get out
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#27
A true Jew are those in the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who also have true faith.
No doubt as it has always been about the lineage of faith....we are of the seed and stock of Abraham by faith...in the New Testament there is neither Jew nor Gentile as the twain have become one......

Yes without a doubt there are still promises and prophecy concerning the actual nation of Israel/Judah to yet be fulfilled....!
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
895
18
18
#28
"In Rev 2:9, it's some Jews who were slandering people in the church in Smyrna."


There were no orthodox "Jews" present in the assemblies .... they would not go there in the first place, only those few that became believers
I suppose I could have probably worded what I meant better, but I didn't anticipate that sort of misunderstanding: they were slandering members of the church in Smyrna - I wasn't saying they were doing so while physically located in the center of worship.

For quite some time, there was much tension between Jews and Christians in Smyrna. Not all too long after Revelation was written, Polycarp, the Bishop of Smyrna, was martyred in Smyrna (circa AD 150) and unfortunately, there appears to have been a Jewish contingent in the area that played a large role in his murder (Martyrdom of Polycarp 12-13, 17-18).

What was happening when John wrote to Smyrna was undoubtedly similar. Some Jews in Smyrna were slandering Christians in Smyrna. We don't know exactly what they were saying or exactly why; John is writing to Smyrneans who already know the details and don't have to be retold about them. But whatever they were saying, it's labeled "slanderous" in the book and was likely the proximate cause of the persecution the church in Smyrna was experiencing (2:10).

The Lord is speaking to His Church, then and today, and one of the negative evaluations that He hates is that the professing church is entertaining those of the Gentiles that claim to be "Jews" who replace national Israel with themselves, tout anti-Semitism, and spread the false doctrine of preterism
Yea, the letter to Smyrna didn't say anything like that.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
34
48
#29
So God says he will bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel but there are those that say they are Jews and are not. How do we know that the two are not intermingled Israel/fake jews?
The New Israel is now all those who believe in Christ (both Jews and Gentiles); in other words, the Church is the Israel of God.
God doesn't have two separate covenants: one with the national Israel and another one with the Church.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#30
The New Israel is now all those who believe in Christ (both Jews and Gentiles); in other words, the Church is the Israel of God.
God doesn't have two separate covenants: one with the national Israel and another one with the Church.
yes he does.

God never promised the church any land, and said he gave it to them as an eternal covenant.

Then made a law. and said if you follow it he will bless them, and if you do not he will punish you, up to the point of taking you from your land, and having your land destroyed. But if you As a nation) repent, He will restore you to the land.
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#31
Who are those who say they are Jews and are not?
Haven't read any replies yet - but the answer I have to give is, Only God Knows but we'll find out AT His Coming.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#32
unfortunately some people have made the mistake of interpreting the 'synagogue of satan' in terms of the increasingly popular heresy of conspiracist eschatology...supposing that there is some kind of ancient secret society of pseudo jews that continues plotting against christianity to this day...

many more christians have adopted the milder but still mistaken assumption that the label 'synagogue of satan' can be correctly applied to various groups of people that are still around today...for example false teachers...or the roman catholic church...or jews who openly reject christ...or particular sects of modern judaism...and so on...

however both views fail to pay attention to the context on the 'synagogue of satan'...to begin with revelation indicates that the problem of the 'synagogue of satan' was going to be resolved within the lifetime of john's readers...

revelation 3:9..."Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you."

so this is a group that was defeated and humiliated sometime within the first or second century AD...

now to figure out the characteristics of this first century group we have to understand what the description 'who say that they are jews and are not' means...

first of all we can dismiss the notion that these people were some kind of racial or ethic imposters...because practicing converts to judaism were not regarded as 'fake jews'...

secondly we can rule out the idea that this is merely a label for jews who had stubbornly refused to accept jesus as their messiah...because elsewhere in the new testament we see many examples of jews who reject christ...and the narrative never refers to them as 'false jews' or 'those who say they are jews and are not' or even 'so called jews'...those who failed to accept jesus as messiah are usually referred to in the narrative merely as 'the jews'... so there is no precedent for people consistently referred to simply as 'the jews' to suddenly be called 'those who say they are jews and are not' in the last book of the new testament...

this really leaves only one more possibility...that this was a religious sect that imitated judaism but really was not judaism...in other words a cult that held to doctrines or practices superficially similar to judaism...but bore some disqualifying doctrinal characteristic that separated them from legitimate judaism...

revelation indicates that a specific sin of the 'synagogue of satan' was blasphemy...

revelation 2:9..."I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."

in strictly biblical terms the word 'blasphemy' refers to saying things about God that should not be said...in other words sacrilegious speech...or saying things about created beings that should only be said about God...in other words idolatrous speech...

were there any false religions that the church would have been exposed to in new testament times that meets this criteria of blasphemy? yes...and here is an example...

colossians 2:18..."Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,"

this evidently refers to a sect that worshipped angels...an idolatrous activity elevating created angels to the level of deity and therefore meeting the criteria of blasphemy from revelation 2:9...

in the early second century a rabbi named ishmael wrote a commentary on exodus in which he declared that the worship of angels was prohibited...confirming that the superstition of angel worship was a current problem among jews in the late apostolic era...

elsewhere paul warns against 'jewish myths'...

titus 1:14..."not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth."

a lot of jewish literature from this era has survived to modern times...and there are numerous examples of 'jewish myths' revealing frequent 'supernaturalizing' and intricately detailed superstitions involving angels and many other aspects of the spiritual realm...

going back to colossians 2:18 paul also mentions the characteristics of 'self abasement'...that is the ascetic tendency often seen in reclusive cults such as the qumran community...and also a dependence on visions... both of these were common characteristics of jewish fringe groups in this era...

to summarize...the 'synagogue of satan' was evidenty a first and second century jewish fringe sect that featured angel worship and other superstitions...a false spirituality of self harm...and an emphasis on supernatural experiences... this group was unable to withstand the power of the gospel and was neutralized within the lifetime of john's readers...
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#33
The pharisees are a perfect example of the synagogue of satan.

This is a very important topic that will never be taught at Church, but is vital if you want to FULLY understand Yahshua's encounters with the Pharisees. Thus some preachers take advantage of people ignorance on this topic and use Yahshua's words to witness against something Yahshua promoted insted of what He spoke against. Most people really do not know much if anything about the Pharisaical religion and errantly think it is based on the Holy Scriptures, it is not. They have 2 "Torahs" one written and one oral, the written is the first 5 books of the Scriptures and the oral is the Talmud. They say the Scriptures are incomprehensible without the Talmud. I want to clearly state I have no problem with the Jewish people, and this is in no way against Jews. This is to shed light on what the Pharisees really believed and taught that Yahshua had rebuked them for over and over.

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them:
And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

This is from the Talmud, it is the story about the debate of Eliezer contracting ritual imourity from an OVEN. In the Talmud you will see over and over the confused non-sense that is of the Pharisees. I stand strongly against this evil book, however if one does a little study you will understand Yahshua's words in these encounters.

Talmud - Mas. Baba Metzia 59b

We learnt elsewhere: If he cut it into separate tiles, placing sand between each tile: R. Eliezer declared it clean, and the Sages declared it unclean; and this was the oven of ‘Aknai.1 Why [the oven of] ‘Aknai? — Said Rab Judah in Samuel's name: [It means] that they encompassed it with arguments2 as a snake, and proved it unclean. It has been taught: On that day R. Eliezer brought forward every imaginable argument ,3 but they did not accept them. Said he to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let this carob-tree prove it!’ Thereupon the carob-tree was torn a hundred cubits out of its place — others affirm, four hundred cubits. ‘No proof can be brought from a carob-tree,’ they retorted. Again he said to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let the stream of water prove it!’ Whereupon the stream of water flowed backwards — ‘No proof
can be brought from a stream of water,’ they rejoined. Again he urged: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let the walls of the schoolhouse prove it,’ whereupon the walls inclined to fall. But R. Joshua rebuked them, saying: ‘When scholars are engaged in a halachic dispute, what have ye to interfere?’ Hence they did not fall, in honour of R. Joshua, nor did they resume the upright, in honour of R. Eliezer; and they are still standing thus inclined. Again he said to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let it be proved from Heaven!’ Whereupon a Heavenly Voice cried out: ‘Why do ye dispute with R. Eliezer, seeing that in all matters the halachah agrees with him!’ But R. Joshua arose and exclaimed: ‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice, because Thou hast long since written in the Torah at Mount Sinai, After the majority must one incline.5R. Nathan met Elijah6 and asked him: What did the Holy One, Blessed be He, do in that hour? — He laughed [with joy], he replied, saying, ‘My sons have defeated Me, My sons have defeated Me.’ It was said: On that day all objects which R. Eliezer had declared clean were brought and burnt in fire.7 Then they took a vote and excommunicated him.

Later we will factually see where the thought pattern behind words in red originated.

This next reading is the origin of the ban on the Name of the Most High: Yahweh

Talmud - Mas. Sotah 38a
Another [Baraitha] taught: ‘On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel’ — with the use of
the Shem Hameforash.15 You say that it means with the Tetragrammaton; but perhaps that is not so and a substituted name was used!16 There is a text to say: So shall they put My name17 — My name which is unique to Me. It is possible to think that [the Shem Hameforash was also used] in places outside the Temple; but it is stated here, ‘So shall they put My name’ and elsewhere it is stated: To put His name there18 — as in this latter passage it denotes in the Temple so also in the former passage it denotes in the Temple. R. Joshiah says: [This deduction] is unnecessary; behold it states: In every place where I cause My name to be remembered I will come unto thee.19 Can it enter your mind that every place is intended?20 But the text must be transposed thus: In every place where I will come unto thee and bless thee will I cause My name to be remembered; and where will I come unto thee and bless thee? In the Temple; there, in the Temple, will I cause My name to be remembered. Another [Baraitha] teaches: ‘On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel’ — I have here only the children of Israel; whence is it that proselytes, women and enfranchised slaves [are included]? There is a text to state, Ye shall say unto them21 — i.e., to all of them.

"but perhaps that is not so and a substituted name was used,"
No Scripture says anything like this at all, a Rabbi comes along and says, " "but perhaps that is not so," and after that Yahweh's Name is hidden. However it is not that FOOLISH and innocent, as it was on purpose that this was contrived:

Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to eforget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal; (Lord.)"

Now, you may be wondering why I have the word "Lord" after "Baal."

BAAL (DEITY) [Heb ba˓al (בַּעַל )]. Canaanite storm and fertility god. The name, which means “lord, ” is an epithet of the god Hadad (lit. “thunderer” ). Well-known from the OT, he is now extremely well-attested in the Ugaritic texts, in addition to being mentioned in other ancient texts.
Freedman, David Noel: The Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York : Doubleday, 1996, c1992, S. 1:546

BA´AL (bāʹal; Heb. ba˓al, “lord, possessor”).
1. A common name for god among the Phoenicians; also the name of their chief male god. See Gods, False.
Unger, Merrill Frederick ; Harrison, R. K. ; Vos, Howard Frederic ; Barber, Cyril J. ; Unger, Merrill Frederick: The New Unger's Bible Dictionary. Rev. and updated ed. Chicago : Moody Press, 1988


Baal (Heb. ba˓al) DEITY
The Canaanite storm- and fertility-god. As an epithet for various West Semitic deities, especially Hadad, the name means “lord,” designating a legal state of ownership or social superiority. With the obvious exception of Yahweh, Baal is the most significant deity in the OT.
Freedman, David Noel ; Myers, Allen C. ; Beck, Astrid B.: Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible. Grand Rapids, Mich. : W.B. Eerdmans, 2000


BAAL [BAY uhl] (lord, master) — the name of one or more false gods, a place, and two people in the Old Testament:
1. A fertility and nature god of the Canaanites and Phoenicians. Also see Gods, Pagan.
Youngblood, Ronald F. ; Bruce, F. F. ; Harrison, R. K. ; Thomas Nelson Publishers: Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary. Nashville : T. Nelson, 1995

The Name YHWH was removed at least 6,828 times and replaced with LORD or GOD. You can tell where it was because ALL the letters are capital where YHWH was. The Masorites added vowel points to the Hebrew manuscripts (not in the "J" writings," (Called J (Y) for it's use of YHWH), but in the next oldest, the "E" writings (for it's use of Elohim). The vowel points replaced Yahweh's Name with Adonal = Lord and Elohim = God(s).It is forbidden by Yahweh to hide His Name by the way. However as we seen in the Talmud, to the Rabbis this is of no effect: "we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice." Then we come to modern times when this false practice is still used, I have a Bible that says, quote: "this tradition is still used".

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them:
And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Talmud - Mas. Yoma 39b
His brethren [that year] the priests forbore to mention the Ineffable Name in pronouncing the [priestly] blessing.4 Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white;

Numbers 6:23-27, "Speak to Aaron and his sons, saying; This is how you are to bless the children of Israyl. Say to them; YAHWEH BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU. YAHWEH MAKE HIS FACE SHINE UPON YOU AND BE MERCIFUL TO YOU. YAHWEH LIFT UP HIS COUNTENANCE UPON YOU, AND GIVE YOU PEACE. So they will put MY NAME on the children of Israyl, and I will bless them."

This is the Command that the "priests forbore", all supposedly because that "Rabbi" said, "but perhaps that is not so." Note "nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white," this was the sign that thier sins were forgiven. Also the Talmud RECORDS that after they killed Yahshua, from that time until the destruction of the House of Yahweh (Solomon's Temple) the crimson colored strap NEVER turned white again.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#34
This next one is just to illustrated the level of foolishness the Pharisees partake in. They take a guy to court because he said Yahweh's Name, and the Rabbis say, "but perhaps this, but perhaps that, but perhaps, this." This is not vital to read just a little to show the confusion by design.
Talmud - Mas. Sanhedrin 56a
THE WHOLE DAY [OF THE TRIAL] THE WITNESSES ARE EXAMINED BY MEANS OF A SUBSTITUTE FOR THE DIVINE NAME, THUS, ‘MAY JOSE SMITE JOSE.’1 WHEN THE TRIAL WAS FINISHED, THE ACCUSED WAS NOT EXECUTED ON THIS EVIDENCE, BUT ALL PERSONS WERE REMOVED [FROM COURT], AND THE CHIEF WITNESS WAS TOLD, ‘STATE LITERALLY WHAT YOU HEARD. THEREUPON HE DID SO, [USING THE DIVINE NAME]. THE JUDGES THEN AROSE AND RENT THEIR GARMENTS, WHICH RENT WAS NOT TO BE RESEWN. THE SECOND WITNESS STATED; I TOO HAVE HEARD THUS’ [BUT NOT UTTERING THE DIVINE NAME], AND THE THIRD SAYS: ‘I TOO HEARD THUS’.
GEMARA. It has been taught: [The blasphemer is not punished] unless he ‘blesses’ the Name, by the Name2 From the verse, How shall I curse [Ekkob]5 whom God hath not cursed;6 whilst the formal prohibition is contained in the verse, thou shalt not revile God.7 But perhaps it means ‘to pierce,’8 as it is written, [So Jehoiada the priest took a chest,] and bored [wa-yikkob]9 a hole in the lid of it,10 the formal injunction against this being the verses, Ye shall destroy the names of them [idols] out of that place. Ye shall not do so unto the Lord your God?11 — The Name must be ‘blessed’ by the Name, which is absent here. But perhaps the text refers to the putting of two slips of parchment, each bearing the Divine Name, together, and piercing them both? — In that case one Name is pierced after the other.12 But perhaps it prohibits the engraving of the Divine Name on the Point of a knife and piercing therewith [the Divine Name written on a slip of parchment]? — In that case, the point of the knife pierces, not the Divine Name. But perhaps it refers to the pronunciation of the ineffable Name, as it is written, And Moses and Aaron took these men which are expressed [nikkebu]13 by their names;14 the formal prohibition being contained in the verse, Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God?15 — Firstly, the Name must be ‘blessed’ by the Name, which is absent here; and secondly, it is a prohibition in the form of a positive command, which is not deemed to be a prohibition at all.16 An alternative answer is this: The Writ saith, [And the Israelitish woman's son] blasphemed wa-yikkob17 [and cursed],18 proving that blasphemy [nokeb] denotes cursing. But perhaps it teaches that both offences must be perpetrated?19 You cannot think so, because it is written, Bring forth him that hath cursed,20 and not ‘him that hath blasphemed and cursed’, proving that one offence only is alluded to. Our Rabbis taught: [Any man that curseth his God, shall bear his sin.21 It would have been sufficient to say],


Now here is ONE of Yahshua's encounters with these evil men.

Mattithyah 15:1-20, "Then scribes and Pharisees from Yerusalem came to Yahshua, and said; Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do
not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions? For Yahweh commanded, saying: Honor your father and your mother; and: He who curses his father or mother, let him be put to death. But you say; If anyone says to his father or mother; Whatever help you might have received from me is qorban; consecrated to Yahweh--So he does not dishonor father or mother by withholding it from them. In this way you have set aside the Law of Yahweh, for your own tradition! Hypocrites! Well did Isayah prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. And He called the multitude, and said to them: Hear and understand! It is not what goes into the mouth of a man that defiles a man; but that which comes out of the mouth, this defiles a
man. Then His disciples came to Him, and said; Do you know that the Pharisees
were offended after they heard this saying? But He answered, and said: Every
plant, which My Heavenly Father has not planted, will be rooted up. Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the ditch. But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us. And Yahshua said: Are you also yet without understanding? Do you not yet understand that whatever enters in at the mouth goes into the stomach, and then is cast out in
elimination? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceeds evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

So clearly Yahshua is against these Pharisical laws in the Talmud. So why is it 8 chapters later He tells us to "do all they say?"

Something is not right here.

Every translation reads as such, as all Greek texts read this way:

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3
"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

However Yahweh has left us truth!

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."



Takanot: reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to Yahweh's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.

THIS IS THE BURDEN!

Deuteronomy 4:2, "You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor shall you take anything from it, so that you may keep the Laws of Yahweh your Father which I command you."

The "rabbis" interpret Scripture by something called Midrashic interpretation, which ignores language and ignores context. They say Scripture is a divne code and only the rabbis have the knowledge to decipher that divine code. Here is an ACTUAL example of Midrashic interpretation used by the rabbis:

They take Exodus 23:2, "Do not follow the crowd in doing evil. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd."

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "follow the crowd."

Thus even when one disagrees or knows something is wrong he must, "follow the crowd," or as the Talmud puts it in Baba Metzia 59b (top of post), "after the majority must one incline."

Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Baba Metzia 59b)

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them:
And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mattithyah 15:8-9, "These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

Mattithyah 5:43-44, "You have heard that it has been said: You will love your brother--but hate your enemies; But I say to you; Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do well to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you."

Most people think Yahshua is rebuking "OT", not at all, nowhere in Yahweh's words is this hate taught. This hate comes from the Talmud of the pharisees. Yahweh's words says:

Leviticus 19:34, "The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh."

Talmud - Mas. Sanhedrin 57a
‘For murder, whether of a Cuthean by a Cuthean, or of an Israelite by a Cuthean, punishment is incurred; but of a Cuthean by an Israelite, there is no death penalty.

Talmud - Mas. Pesachim 111a
Resh Lakish said: There are four actions for which he who does them has his blood on his own head and forfeits his life,3 viz.: easing oneself between a palm tree and the wall passing between two palm trees; drinking borrowed water, and passing over spilt water, even if his wife poured it out in his presence. ‘Easing oneself between a palm tree and the wall’: this was said only if there is not four cubits,4 but if he leaves four cubits it does not matter. And even if he does not leave four cubits [space], it was said only where there is no other path;5 but if there is another path, it does not mat."
Talmud - Mas. Baba Metzia 114b
For it has been taught: R. Simeon b. Yohai said: The graves of Gentiles do not defile, forit is written, And ye my flock, the flock of my pastures, are men;5 only ye are designated ‘men’
Talmud Moed Kattan 17a
Rabbi Ila'i said: If a person is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known, dress in black clothes, cover his head in black, and do what his heart desires.

The Talmud has Sabbath laws where you can only walk 40 steps (or something similar) and you can only eat 2 meals on the Sabbath or your cursed. (THIS IS THE BURDEN YAHSHUA SPOKE OF). However if you walk 40 steps then bury your lunch, you can then walk 40 more steps and bury your dinner, then walk 40 more steps and place you cot, then walk 40 more steps.Foolishness to get people to be in submission to man or to make people not eventry to follow (what they thought) was the Creator's Law.

Also know that I chose the most non-offensive sections of the Talmud I could and still prove my point, as there are things in there that will turn a grown man's stomach. I hope this helped you to understand a little more about Yahshua's words.

This first video is from a FORMER modern Pharisee, and he can shed more light and details on the topic than I can as he GREW UP IN THIS TEACHING, but is in it no longer. The second is 14 min of audio on the topic. Check it out.

The Hebrew Yeshua vs. the Greek Jesus - YouTube

Takanot and Ma'asim of the Rabbis - YouTube
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
34
48
#35
yes he does.

God never promised the church any land, and said he gave it to them as an eternal covenant.

Then made a law. and said if you follow it he will bless them, and if you do not he will punish you, up to the point of taking you from your land, and having your land destroyed. But if you As a nation) repent, He will restore you to the land.
All the promises God made to Israel had been fulfilled by sending His only begotten Son.
I can understand a Jew who doesn't believe that Christ is the Messiah who would chase out the enemies and deliver Israel, but I can't understand a Christian who doesn't believe Christ is the Messiah, that He is the Savior of Israel and the world.


I simply can't understand. Yo either believe in Christ, either don't believe in Him. It can't be both.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
34
48
#36
yes he does.

God never promised the church any land, and said he gave it to them as an eternal covenant.

Then made a law. and said if you follow it he will bless them, and if you do not he will punish you, up to the point of taking you from your land, and having your land destroyed. But if you As a nation) repent, He will restore you to the land.
The Jews were no longer in exile, but they did felt like being in an exile because of the Romans. So, they expected a Messiah to start a revolution and deliver the Jews from the Romans. The least they expected was a Messiah who would ask them to walk a mile with the enemy (the roman), to say "give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and to God what belongs to God" or even to say "love your enemy".

You don't understand what Christ did! That's why you keep on saying that God didn't fulfill His promises to Israel.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
All the promises God made to Israel had been fulfilled by sending His only begotten Son.
I can understand a Jew who doesn't believe that Christ is the Messiah who would chase out the enemies and deliver Israel, but I can't understand a Christian who doesn't believe Christ is the Messiah, that He is the Savior of Israel and the world.


I simply can't understand. Yo either believe in Christ, either don't believe in Him. It can't be both.
The land promise was given as an eternal gift long before the messiah came.

The promise of the messiah being their king was not even given until king david.

I simply can;t understand anyone who claims she studies the word does not understand these things.

I do believe Jesus is messiah, I believe he will return and fulfill all his promises.. He did the most important one, he saved my soul by removing my sin, He will do the rest he promised he will do also.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#39
The Jews were no longer in exile, but they did felt like being in an exile because of the Romans. So, they expected a Messiah to start a revolution and deliver the Jews from the Romans. The least they expected was a Messiah who would ask them to walk a mile with the enemy (the roman), to say "give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and to God what belongs to God" or even to say "love your enemy".

You don't understand what Christ did! That's why you keep on saying that God didn't fulfill His promises to Israel.
They were no longer in exhile? Then why were jews ling all over the roman empire when the church started? Why were they not living in peace Like God promised? why were they slaves to a forign nation like God promised.

Wow, and you study the OT.??

PS. God is fulfilling his promises to Isreal, even today.

they were removed due to sin, they are still in sin, Thus they are still in exhile, Jerusalem is still in gentile hands.. Just as God promised.

When they repent (and scripture says they will) He will restor them, STILL keeping his promise to them.

He never stopped keeping his promise to them, even in 70 AD. was according to his promise to them.


 
Jun 4, 2014
1,849
9
0
#40
The Jews were no longer in exile, but they did felt like being in an exile because of the Romans. So, they expected a Messiah to start a revolution and deliver the Jews from the Romans. The least they expected was a Messiah who would ask them to walk a mile with the enemy (the roman), to say "give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and to God what belongs to God" or even to say "love your enemy".

You don't understand what Christ did! That's why you keep on saying that God didn't fulfill His promises to Israel.
His promise is fulfilled, we here on earth however do not believe or act like it is. Giving Caesar back what belongs to him means to let the rich lenders who rule over us know that we no longer need his paper, laws, statutes and biases attached to it. And that we are now capable of freely governing ourselves in Christ, the image of love.