Why do people not understand.. Dead means dead.

[eternally-gratefull]

Why is it those that follow the man-made teaching of faith only do not understand that dead means dead??????

James said faith without works (faith only) is dead being alone. James 2:17.

James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is DEAD ALSO."

The physical body without the spirit is DEAD. What can a dead body do? Nothing. Why? It's DEAD. Likewise faith without works is DEAD and just like a DEAD body that cannot do anything, a dead faith cannot do anything either. Yet faith onlyists claim a dead faith only can do something, it supposedly can produce salvation and even works. How can a dead faith only produce anything when it's DEAD??? It cannot do anything anymore than a dead body can do something.

Thank you seaBass you just proved my point.

Someone who CLAIMS to have faith, yet has no works, can that CLAIMED faith save him? No

It has no power. it is dead.

Thats why it can not save
thats why it CAN NOT do not work, it is lifeless.

It can not go get baptized, It can not feed the poor.It can;t take the Lord's supper. It cant honor its mother and father, IT can't stop sin, IT CANT do anything, It can not even HEAR, let alone DO. because it is DEAD.

 

[SeaBass]

Thank you seaBass you just proved my point.

Someone who CLAIMS to have faith, yet has no works, can that CLAIMED faith save him? No

It has no power. it is dead.

Thats why it can not save
thats why it CAN NOT do not work, it is lifeless.

It can not go get baptized, It can not feed the poor.It can;t take the Lord's supper. It cant honor its mother and father, IT can't stop sin, IT CANT do anything, It can not even HEAR, let alone DO. because it is DEAD.

With your statement "Someone who CLAIMS to have faith, yet has no works, can that CLAIMED faith save him? No"

....you just proved that faith without works cannot save. That faith only/no works is just a CLAIM to having a saving faith for it takes works to have a valid, viable saving faith.

Therefore faith only has no power, it is dead being void of works so how can a dead "faith only" save and even produce works when it's DEAD?

(a)faith only>>>>>>>>(b)saves>>>>>>>>>>>(c) then works

How can a dead (a)"faith only" get to (b) or (c) when it's DEAD? The process would begin and end at (a) and could move no further for that (a)faith only is dead unable to do anything.

On the other hand, a faith WITH works is living, viable faith that can save, that has works.

 

[hopesprings]

How can a DEAD faith only produce works, do anything when it's DEAD?

Can a DEAD body do anything? No, then how can a DEAD faith so anything like produce works when it's DEAD?

how can your works save u when it's Jesus who does the saving, not u?

But how can a DEAD faith only move mountains when it's DEAD void of works?

How can NO WORKS ( faith only) move a mountain?

it takes a living, viable faith WITH WORKS to move a mountain.

a living faith is faith. Please notice that Jesus never said a faith with works can move a mountain. Do u know why? Because works are the NATURAL OUTPOURING of our faith! If we have faith we will have works. It our proof, our evidence of the inner working of Christ in our life.

People want to contribute something to God's salvation, but they can't. No matter how hard they work. Care to guess why? Because they are dead and incapable of contributing anything. Look at the lives of the Pharisees if u want to believe in works based salvation. They were all about that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

With your statement "Someone who CLAIMS to have faith, yet has no works, can that CLAIMED faith save him? No"

....you just proved that faith without works cannot save.

No, I just proved that one who CLAIMS to have faith is a liar. I can claim I have faith until I am blue in the face, but if my faith is dead, I am a liar, and there is no truth in me,

That is what James is trying to say.

That faith only/no works is just a CLAIM to having a saving faith for it takes works to have a valid, viable saving faith.

Wrong. No one claims to have faith only, James did not say that, why are you adding to the word of God,

James did not say, one who claims to have faith alone, He saidone who claims to have faith.

erefore faith only has no power, it is dead being void of works so how can a dead "faith only" save and even produce works when it's DEAD?

(a)faith only>>>>>>>>(b)saves>>>>>>>>>>>(c) then works

How can a dead (a)"faith only" get to (b) or (c) when it's DEAD? The process would begin and end at (a) and could move no further for that (a)faith only is dead unable to do anything.

On the other hand, a faith WITH works is living, viable faith that can save, that has works.

And again, you see, you say, but you do not comprehend.

A dead person can not get up and go be baptized, He is dead, He can claim he has faith all he wants, but it is powerless. it is dead, it can not do anything.

One must be made ALIVE before they can stand up, be healed, and THEN go get baptized (along with any other work God commands us to do)

 

[dcontroversal]

how can your works save u when it's Jesus who does the saving, not u?



a living faith is faith. Please notice that Jesus never said a faith with works can move a mountain. Do u know why? Because works are the NATURAL OUTPOURING of our faith! If we have faith we will have works. It our proof, our evidence of the inner working of Christ in our life.

People want to contribute something to God's salvation, but they can't. No matter how hard they work. Care to guess why? Because they are dead and incapable of contributing anything. Look at the lives of the Pharisees if u want to believe in works based salvation. They were all about that.

Don't worry hope as Sea Fish trusts his own merits to gain and keep a salvation that he doesn't have based upon his Alexander Campbell dogma that he believes and hold to....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't worry hope as Sea Fish trusts his own merits to gain and keep a salvation that he doesn't have based upon his Alexander Campbell dogma that he believes and hold to....

because they do not realise what DEAD means, nor do they realize how DEAD they are. They think God needs to throw them a life preserver, Because jesus can not walk on the water and pull us out of the water. Because we are suffering cardiack arrest, and can not grab ahold of the life preserver.

 

[Jackson123]

What you fail to understand Sea Perch is that James does not say that the works SAVED HIM, but rather that the works are evidence of SALVATION which he already HAS...The problem is that your Campbellism wont allow you to see the truth....makes me think of this verse as well...The devil hath blinded the minds of them that BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the GLORIOUS GOSPEL OF CHRIST should shine unto them......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe......

Your gospel---> It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that WORK, GET WET and TRUST into their own meritorious abilities to help Jesus save themselves.....

I believe brother Seabass is product of catholic brainwash.

And they mean by work is baptism ritual, sacraments etc. James mean by work is agape love work.

 

[psychomom]

well, EG...Happy Thanks Giving.

humans are natural born do it yourself-ers.

just give us a to do list...a checklist version of Christianity, thanks,

rather than this JESUS DID IT ALL biz.

(thank God Jesus did it all! )

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well, EG...Happy Thanks Giving.

humans are natural born do it yourself-ers.

just give us a to do list...a checklist version of Christianity, thanks,

rather than this JESUS DID IT ALL biz.

(thank God Jesus did it all! )

Happy thanksgiving to you also. The Lord has blessed us so much

 

[Yahshua]

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Word/Concept
[/TD]
[TD]Greco/Roman Meaning (abstract)
[/TD]
[TD]Hebraic Meaning (tangible)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Holy[/TD]
[TD]Sacred; divine; exalted[/TD]
[TD]Kodesh - To separate or set-apart through constant pressure (like oil is squeeze from an olive; or wine from a grape)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Spirit[/TD]
[TD]ghost; consciousness; personality; immaterial being[/TD]
[TD]Ruach - breath (as in the lungs); wind (in the air) that moves against or upon objects[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Salvation[/TD]
[TD]deliverance; preservation (as from ruin or loss);[/TD]
[TD]Yesha - "action/work to destroy (current) experience (or what's seen)"[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Faith[/TD]
[TD]belief; confidence; acceptance of something as true[/TD]
[TD]Emunah - trust expressed in active loyalty. The Hebrew Characters literally describe "strong movement and activity (to) [or to behold] THE (object) of (one's trust)."[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Grace[/TD]
[TD]The condition or fact of being favored by someone. (In Christian belief) the free and *unmerited* favor of God[/TD]
[TD]Chen - Favor; mercy; loving kindness. The Hebrew Characters literally describe "[a] fence/separation (that's now) cut (off)"[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Greco/Roman concept of faith is being fully convinced of a truth in the mind...but as far as the Hebraic understanding, there was no distinction between faith and the action that expressed it. Death means to not exist. So there is no such thing as "Emunah" without action; emunah without action does not exist (i.e. faith that's dead). This is what James explains in his letter.

James says that the type of faith that saves is the "Emunah" kind. But does this contradict Paul's letter to the Ephesians?


Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.​

Well if we consider the concept of Grace from a greco/roman mindset, yes, what James says contradicts what Paul's says. However, if we view the concept of Grace from a Hebraic mindset there is no contradiction whatsoever. Grace ("Chen") means the barrier that once separated us and God was now destroyed by God himself, which is EXACTLY what we read happened in the gospels when Christ died on the cross.

The veil separating God's holy place was ripped from top to bottom, symbolic of the access we now had to God's throne in heaven. This was the great gift; the access to the power that saves us which we could never earn with any work we could ever do. No one but Christ could restore the link between man & God. No one but he could break the barrier. It was a gift given to us exclusively because God loves us. We now have access to the throne of mercy through Christ. We can now come boldly to him and ask forgiveness for our sins as well as ask to possess the power to live righteously (Emunah faith = the ability to do good works)...and that is what Ephesians continues to say...


Ephesians 2:10

10 For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.​

But just because we have the power to do good works doesn't me we automatically do good works. We must act. This is what James explains. The *only* faith that saves is Emunah: actions that express our trust in God. We must do good works to wrought the faith that saves.

Now there is a difference between performing one's own works vs. performing good works...and I think that's what is often confused. It is true that "to perform one's own works is attempting to trust in one's own merit". However, many incorrectly lump any and all works together under this banner and argue "to do *any* work is to trust in one's own merit". This is incorrect.

We are made dead to sin and dead to this world, while we are quickened (i.e. made alive) by Christ spirit. And as no living beings (who are no longer dead), we are expected to do good works. Good works are "any works commanded by God to do". While one's own works are "any religious works *not* commanded by God to do but that are determined by man's reasoning to be good to do instead".

 

[Hizikyah]

Example:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

 

[Yahshua]

EDIT to last paragraph: And as new living beings (who are no longer dead), we are expected to do good works. Good works are "any works commanded by God to do". While one's own works are "any religious works *not* commanded by God to do but that are determined by man's reasoning to be good to do instead".

 

[ChristIsGod]

well, EG...Happy Thanks Giving.

humans are natural born do it yourself-ers.

just give us a to do list...a checklist version of Christianity, thanks,

rather than this JESUS DID IT ALL biz.

(thank God Jesus did it all! )

Sis, this is throwing out so much of the New Testament commands from cover to cover that it's really starting to break my heart that we haven't seen where He says that we are judged by our works So many times - I am having a hard time believing that we're all reading the same Bible.

There's nothing to smile about in this. It's heart breaking and splitting His Body and His Word in the same operation.

 

[hopesprings]

Sis, this is throwing out so much of the New Testament commands from cover to cover that it's really starting to break my heart that we haven't seen where He says that we are judged by our works So many times - I am having a hard time believing that we're all reading the same Bible.

There's nothing to smile about in this. It's heart breaking and splitting His Body and His Word in the same operation.

i do not set aside the grace of God, for of righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! - Paul

 

[AbbeyJoy]

I understand....and yeah I might get scared. But I trust Jesus and that I know he is taking care of me

 

[psychomom]

Sis, this is throwing out so much of the New Testament commands from cover to cover that it's really starting to break my heart that we haven't seen where He says that we are judged by our works So many times - I am having a hard time believing that we're all reading the same Bible.

There's nothing to smile about in this. It's heart breaking and splitting His Body and His Word in the same operation.

i'm sorry to make you sad.

and, of course, there are commands for us!

but keeping them doesn't change the fact Jesus did everything
necessary to save sinners, right?

 

[dcontroversal]

i do not set aside the grace of God, for of righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! - Paul

For in the grace you are, having been saved out of faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (brag)

That not of yourselves is directed at faith and points to the perfect faith of Christ based upon the work that Jesus has done for all humanity!

 

[p_rehbein]

i'm sorry to make you sad.

and, of course, there are commands for us!

but keeping them doesn't change the fact Jesus did everything
necessary to save sinners, right?

Salvation, Sanctification, Justification.........it call all be a wee bit confusing...........that said.........once saved......Neither God, nor Jesus will be happy if we just find a nice little corner to crawl into and sit out the rest of our lives.......

We are SAVED for a PURPOSE..........and that purpose is to do His will here on earth.......

 

[psychomom]

Salvation, Sanctification, Justification.........it call all be a wee bit confusing...........that said.........once saved......Neither God, nor Jesus will be happy if we just find a nice little corner to crawl into and sit out the rest of our lives.......

We are SAVED for a PURPOSE..........and that purpose is to do His will here on earth.......

aww, p...certainly we shall not hide the light that's been given us under a basket.

the way i see it, mankind in normality reflects God.
so, we go about our daily lives in obedience...reflecting God's character to the world.

but that isn't what gets, or keeps us saved...right?

 

[ChristIsGod]

i do not set aside the grace of God, for of righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! - Paul

For the upteenth time - Paul is talking about the 613 laws of Moses. How many times can you all beat this same drum when it's totally off topic of New Testament Obedience to His / Jesus' "Commandments" that He said we are responsible to keep - or else we're not in the Truth and not In Him?