-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
God knows if our faith is real or not.
He knows who is going to sit in a corner and do nothing, more importantly, he knows who has a true faith, and a false faith (dead)
He saved accordingly. He is not going to save someone ho KNOWS is going to do nothing, He is not going to save anyone who he KNOWS is going to continue to live in sin.
Some people think we somehow can fool God into thinking we have real faith, when in reality we do not. There is no other way I can explain people who think we need to work BEFORE God will save us, and not work BECAUSE God saved us.
He knows who is going to sit in a corner and do nothing, more importantly, he knows who has a true faith, and a false faith (dead)
He saved accordingly. He is not going to save someone ho KNOWS is going to do nothing, He is not going to save anyone who he KNOWS is going to continue to live in sin.
Some people think we somehow can fool God into thinking we have real faith, when in reality we do not. There is no other way I can explain people who think we need to work BEFORE God will save us, and not work BECAUSE God saved us.
P
just a word about that...when God created man, His Spirit was in them.
and that's 'normal' for humans, as that's what God made.
then we broke it all, fell, and lost the Holy Spirit.
now, those whom God has regenerated regain what's normal for humans...Himself!
only God can be the source of Godliness.
in case anyone was wondering what in the world i meant.
and that's 'normal' for humans, as that's what God made.
then we broke it all, fell, and lost the Holy Spirit.
now, those whom God has regenerated regain what's normal for humans...Himself!
only God can be the source of Godliness.
in case anyone was wondering what in the world i meant.
aww, p...certainly we shall not hide the light that's been given us under a basket.
the way i see it, mankind in normality reflects God.
so, we go about our daily lives in obedience...reflecting God's character to the world.
but that isn't what gets, or keeps us saved...right?
Salvation is by Grace and that a gift from God................Sanctification however requires that we spend our lives walking Christ-like in obedience to His Will.......accomplishing what He has saved us to do......He has a purpose for all He saves.......
We are Justified by God Himself when we become Heirs to the Promise..........
the way i see it, mankind in normality reflects God.
so, we go about our daily lives in obedience...reflecting God's character to the world.
but that isn't what gets, or keeps us saved...right?
Salvation is by Grace and that a gift from God................Sanctification however requires that we spend our lives walking Christ-like in obedience to His Will.......accomplishing what He has saved us to do......He has a purpose for all He saves.......
We are Justified by God Himself when we become Heirs to the Promise..........
E
wow you have an attitude.
For the umpteenth time, YOUR WRONG. Paul does mention works of the law from time to time, But everytime he says works does not mean just those works.
You can say it over and over all you want, it has been proven to you it is not true. so why are you trying to hide under the facad of law, and trying to justify your own works. while rejecting theirs?
A work is a work is a work, it does not matter if it is of law or not. If it is done to EARN something, it is a work.
For the umpteenth time, YOUR WRONG. Paul does mention works of the law from time to time, But everytime he says works does not mean just those works.
You can say it over and over all you want, it has been proven to you it is not true. so why are you trying to hide under the facad of law, and trying to justify your own works. while rejecting theirs?
A work is a work is a work, it does not matter if it is of law or not. If it is done to EARN something, it is a work.
H
aww, p...certainly we shall not hide the light that's been given us under a basket.
the way i see it, mankind in normality reflects God.
so, we go about our daily lives in obedience...reflecting God's character to the world.
but that isn't what gets, or keeps us saved...right?
Salvation is by Grace and that a gift from God................Sanctification however requires that we spend our lives walking Christ-like in obedience to His Will.......accomplishing what He has saved us to do......He has a purpose for all He saves.......
We are Justified by God Himself when we become Heirs to the Promise..........
the way i see it, mankind in normality reflects God.
so, we go about our daily lives in obedience...reflecting God's character to the world.
but that isn't what gets, or keeps us saved...right?
Salvation is by Grace and that a gift from God................Sanctification however requires that we spend our lives walking Christ-like in obedience to His Will.......accomplishing what He has saved us to do......He has a purpose for all He saves.......
We are Justified by God Himself when we become Heirs to the Promise..........
For it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose
phil 2:13
E
As for james vs paul.
It is not because of a romanistic type of faith vs a hebraic type of faith, It is the audience to whom the letters were given to and the statements made.
1. Paul was speaking HOW we are saved. vs James, who is speaking of people who CLAIM TO BE saved
2. Paul states those saved by faith WILL WORK. vs James speaking of people who claim to be saved yet do not have work.
3. Paul is speaking to romans, greeks, who probably did not know much about the law. James is talking to the jewish people (who not only taught, but were deeply engrained in law)
which leads to another discussion. If ANYONE was talking about the works which come from the law. It would be James, Saying the works of the law were required or your faith is dead (since he was speaking to people of the law)
But even that is not the case. Paul is talking to people who were not under law. Who were in a paganised religion which taught we are saved by our good deeds, vs James, who is speaking to Jews, who have suddenly been freed from the law, and had a tendancy to take it to far. and be led into licentiousness.
context of both passages, and the audience, and thing spoken will show there is no contradiction at all.
It is not because of a romanistic type of faith vs a hebraic type of faith, It is the audience to whom the letters were given to and the statements made.
1. Paul was speaking HOW we are saved. vs James, who is speaking of people who CLAIM TO BE saved
2. Paul states those saved by faith WILL WORK. vs James speaking of people who claim to be saved yet do not have work.
3. Paul is speaking to romans, greeks, who probably did not know much about the law. James is talking to the jewish people (who not only taught, but were deeply engrained in law)
which leads to another discussion. If ANYONE was talking about the works which come from the law. It would be James, Saying the works of the law were required or your faith is dead (since he was speaking to people of the law)
But even that is not the case. Paul is talking to people who were not under law. Who were in a paganised religion which taught we are saved by our good deeds, vs James, who is speaking to Jews, who have suddenly been freed from the law, and had a tendancy to take it to far. and be led into licentiousness.
context of both passages, and the audience, and thing spoken will show there is no contradiction at all.
This is the passage of Scripture I lean on........
Romans, Chapter 5
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[TD]By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD]And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4
[/TD]
[TD]And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5
[/TD]
[TD]And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6
[/TD]
[TD]For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7
[/TD]
[TD]For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8
[/TD]
[TD]But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9
[/TD]
[TD]Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10
[/TD]
[TD]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11
[/TD]
[TD]And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12
[/TD]
[TD]Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13
[/TD]
[TD](For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14
[/TD]
[TD]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15
[/TD]
[TD]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16
[/TD]
[TD]And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17
[/TD]
[TD]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18
[/TD]
[TD]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19
[/TD]
[TD]For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20
[/TD]
[TD]Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21
[/TD]
[TD]That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Romans, Chapter 5
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[TD]By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD]And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4
[/TD]
[TD]And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5
[/TD]
[TD]And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6
[/TD]
[TD]For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7
[/TD]
[TD]For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8
[/TD]
[TD]But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9
[/TD]
[TD]Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10
[/TD]
[TD]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11
[/TD]
[TD]And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12
[/TD]
[TD]Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13
[/TD]
[TD](For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14
[/TD]
[TD]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15
[/TD]
[TD]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16
[/TD]
[TD]And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17
[/TD]
[TD]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18
[/TD]
[TD]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19
[/TD]
[TD]For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20
[/TD]
[TD]Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21
[/TD]
[TD]That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
P
aww, p...certainly we shall not hide the light that's been given us under a basket.
the way i see it, mankind in normality reflects God.
so, we go about our daily lives in obedience...reflecting God's character to the world.
but that isn't what gets, or keeps us saved...right?
Salvation is by Grace and that a gift from God................Sanctification however requires that we spend our lives walking Christ-like in obedience to His Will.......accomplishing what He has saved us to do......He has a purpose for all He saves.......
We are Justified by God Himself when we become Heirs to the Promise..........
the way i see it, mankind in normality reflects God.
so, we go about our daily lives in obedience...reflecting God's character to the world.
but that isn't what gets, or keeps us saved...right?
Salvation is by Grace and that a gift from God................Sanctification however requires that we spend our lives walking Christ-like in obedience to His Will.......accomplishing what He has saved us to do......He has a purpose for all He saves.......
We are Justified by God Himself when we become Heirs to the Promise..........
Heb 2:11
For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren
1 Cor 1:2
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours
1 Cor 6:11
Such were some of you;
but you were washed,
but you were sanctified,
but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
i'm not saying there's nothing for us to do...
i'm just saying it's ALL God's work, and ALL to His glory.
E
I keep being reminded of this. Took me a few years after years of legalism to realise how true this was.
Philippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
Philippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
P
Don't get too adamant about using death to describe our inability to help ourselves. Spiritual death is not the same as physical death. Being alive physically, when we come to the realization that we are spiritually dead, we have voice to cry out to God for help.
True we cannot save ourselves, but if we don't ask for salvation we're not going to get it. You have to be alive to ask.
True we cannot save ourselves, but if we don't ask for salvation we're not going to get it. You have to be alive to ask.
E
God does not need us to be fully awake to ask. We can ask even though out bodies are useless. Many people in a coma have not only heard people in the room with them, but was able to think thoughts. In fact, when I went through medical training in the navy, one of the first things they tought us when giving CPR is to watch what we say, because although they are clinically dead, Many have heard everything people have said, and even remember how they were touched.
I am sure many of them were praying to God in that time, calling out and asking for Gods healing, and not to let them die.
I am sure many of them were praying to God in that time, calling out and asking for Gods healing, and not to let them die.
Sister.........you left out an important part of this.......... just saying........
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]vs. 29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
just saying........[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]vs. 29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
A further consequence of the fall. Knowledge of both good and evil. Results in the obligation to choose.
The first three chapters of John lays out and details the necessity and consequences of choice. Give directly from Christ Who is able to save. Those who turn aside are lost. There are those who prefer the darkness of spiritual death to the light of spiritual life in Christ. Those who do evil tend to turn back when confronted with the light.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The first three chapters of John lays out and details the necessity and consequences of choice. Give directly from Christ Who is able to save. Those who turn aside are lost. There are those who prefer the darkness of spiritual death to the light of spiritual life in Christ. Those who do evil tend to turn back when confronted with the light.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
