Why do people not understand.. Dead means dead.

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1
All these threads about faith and works. yet it seems no one understands what the word dead means? Why is that? Why have we given Satan the power over us to take a word, which means one thing, and make it means something not even close to the original meaning?

The bible says because we are in Adam We are dead, It says because of sin we are dead. It says the penalty of sin is death.

If someone is dead, they are dead. Their heart has stopped beating, they have stopped breathing. They have to be BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE.

person who is dead can not perform CPR on themselves. They can not inject lifesaving medicine into themselves, They can not do ANYTHING to bring themselves back to life.

They must be RESUSCITATED, They must be GIVEN the life-giving medicine by someone who has the power to save them. They must be REGENERATED (that which is dead, brought back to life)

Yet I keep hearing things like,

"you going to tell me if a savior threw you a life preserver and you were saved, you did not save yourself?

"God did his part. now you need to do your part and go get baptized in water"

"Faith and works go hand in hand, you can not be saved by faith alone."

are they serious?

I am dead. how am I going to grab onto the life preserver? How am I going to get up and walk to the baptismal, the river or where ever I need to go to be baptized. I AM DEAD. I can not walk, crawl or roll anyplace. I AM DEAD.

As far as faith goes. If it is DEAD it is lifeless. It is powerless. It can not do anything, It needs to be regenerated to give it life. Otherwise it is useless. It can do nothing (it can't save you, let alone do any work) yet they say this dead faith is a real faith??

And finally. I have this question.

Can anyone show me any person who was dead. regenerated back to life by lifesaving medical attention, and given a new life. And came to a point in their life where they no longer believed the person who saved them had that power to do so?

Can any one show me how anyone, who died because they lied cheated and steeled their whole lives, They drank themselves to death, They acknowledged the sin and filth they had in their lives, which caused their death, GO BACK AND DO THOSE THINGS AGAIN?

Are people really that naive that they would think dead does not mean dead, and people who died because of sin would return to that sin after they were brought back to life and given a second chance?

 
May 15, 2013
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#2
All these threads about faith and works. yet it seems no one understands what the word dead means? Why is that? Why have we given Satan the power over us to take a word, which means one thing, and make it means something not even close to the original meaning?

The bible says because we are in Adam We are dead, It says because of sin we are dead. It says the penalty of sin is death.

If someone is dead, they are dead. Their heart has stopped beating, they have stopped breathing. They have to be BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE.

person who is dead can not perform CPR on themselves. They can not inject lifesaving medicine into themselves, They can not do ANYTHING to bring themselves back to life.

They must be RESUSCITATED, They must be GIVEN the life-giving medicine by someone who has the power to save them. They must be REGENERATED (that which is dead, brought back to life)

Yet I keep hearing things like,

"you going to tell me if a savior threw you a life preserver and you were saved, you did not save yourself?

"God did his part. now you need to do your part and go get baptized in water"

"Faith and works go hand in hand, you can not be saved by faith alone."

are they serious?

I am dead. how am I going to grab onto the life preserver? How am I going to get up and walk to the baptismal, the river or where ever I need to go to be baptized. I AM DEAD. I can not walk, crawl or roll anyplace. I AM DEAD.

As far as faith goes. If it is DEAD it is lifeless. It is powerless. It can not do anything, It needs to be regenerated to give it life. Otherwise it is useless. It can do nothing (it can't save you, let alone do any work) yet they say this dead faith is a real faith??

And finally. I have this question.

Can anyone show me any person who was dead. regenerated back to life by lifesaving medical attention, and given a new life. And came to a point in their life where they no longer believed the person who saved them had that power to do so?

Can any one show me how anyone, who died because they lied cheated and steeled their whole lives, They drank themselves to death, They acknowledged the sin and filth they had in their lives, which caused their death, GO BACK AND DO THOSE THINGS AGAIN?

Are people really that naive that they would think dead does not mean dead, and people who died because of sin would return to that sin after they were brought back to life and given a second chance?

Dead means soulless or lifeless.

Luke 15:32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’” (First resurrection)
 
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hopesprings

Guest
#3
Some people think dead just means sick
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#4
Dead means soulless or lifeless.

Luke 15:32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’” (First resurrection)
in other words, he had to be regenerated to be made alive, Just like paul says in Titus 3: 5, we must be born again, We must be given the gift of God, which is eternal life?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#5
Nov 3, 2014
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#6
It means dead .... after the loss of the physical body .... one's spirit goes back to the Lord for the keeping

..... until He awakens them either to eternal life [immortality] .... or to eternal damnation and elimination [the second death of the Human spirit]

No man has yet gone to heaven, except the One who has come down from heaven

The dead know nothing .... no time passing for them

But all will be awakened ..... sooner, or later

Better to be sooner, rather than later
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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#7
It was pretty clear to Paul....But God who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when WE WERE (past tense) dead in trespasses and sins hath QUICKENED us together with CHRIST (by grace ye are saved) and hath RAISED us up together , and made us sit TOGETHER, in heavenly places in Christ Jesus

HE--->being GOD is the one who hath QUICKENED (made ALIVE) together WITH CHRIST and the one who has RAISED US UP....

Rather simple at the end of the day.......
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#8
It was pretty clear to Paul....But God who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when WE WERE (past tense) dead in trespasses and sins hath QUICKENED us together with CHRIST (by grace ye are saved) and hath RAISED us up together , and made us sit TOGETHER, in heavenly places in Christ Jesus

HE--->being GOD is the one who hath QUICKENED (made ALIVE) together WITH CHRIST and the one who has RAISED US UP....

Rather simple at the end of the day.......

it is too simple for some. so it can not be true. And in reality, it is to hard, because it is to simple (even a kid can understand it, and why it is easier for a child to come, than an adult set in their ways.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,196
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#9
all well and good........ :) .............. BUT there are TWO DEATHS spoken of in Scripture are there not?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#10

it is too simple for some. so it can not be true. And in reality, it is to hard, because it is to simple (even a kid can understand it, and why it is easier for a child to come, than an adult set in their ways.
I agree for sure....many will come in that day bragging about their right to enter heaven based upon...

1. Their works
2. Their ability to prophesy
3. Their ability to cast out demons

Jesus said....I never knew you<----goes to their salvation as they have attempted to come by some other door..IE their abilities and works<-----Galatians chapters 1 and 3 condemn those who attempt to come by their own works and abilities!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#11
all well and good........ :) .............. BUT there are TWO DEATHS spoken of in Scripture are there not?
Yep.....One is physical death, and the other is spiritual death which culminates with a swim in the proverbial lake-o-fire after the Great White Throne judgment as found in Revelation 20, which applies unto ALL who were never BORN AGAIN according to the one and only way to be born again..................
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#12
all well and good........ :) .............. BUT there are TWO DEATHS spoken of in Scripture are there not?
yes there are.

Adam died spiritually the moment he sinned, and from that time all men are born dead. (thus I am dead and need born again because I am dead)

Then their is physical death which followed after.

In fact their are three, Those who die spiritually dead, will suffer the second death, called the eternal fire.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#13
Why is it those that follow the man-made teaching of faith only do not understand that dead means dead??????

James said faith without works (faith only) is dead being alone. James 2:17.

James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is DEAD ALSO."

The physical body without the spirit is DEAD. What can a dead body do? Nothing. Why? It's DEAD. Likewise faith without works is DEAD and just like a DEAD body that cannot do anything, a dead faith cannot do anything either. Yet faith onlyists claim a dead faith only can do something, it supposedly can produce salvation and even works. How can a dead faith only produce anything when it's DEAD??? It cannot do anything anymore than a dead body can do something.
 
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Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#14
Why is it those that follow the man-made teaching of faith only do not understand that dead means dead??????

James said faith without works (faith only) is dead being alone. James 2:17.

James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is DEAD ALSO."

The physical body without the spirit is DEAD. What can a dead body do? Nothing. Why? It's DEAD. Likewise faith without works is DEAD and just like a DEAD body that cannot do anything, a dead faith cannot do anything either. Yet faith onlyists claim a dead faith only can do something, it supposedly can produce salvation and even works. How can a dead faith only produce anything when it's DEAD??? It cannot do anything anymore than a dead body can do something.
What you fail to understand Sea Perch is that James does not say that the works SAVED HIM, but rather that the works are evidence of SALVATION which he already HAS...The problem is that your Campbellism wont allow you to see the truth....makes me think of this verse as well...The devil hath blinded the minds of them that BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the GLORIOUS GOSPEL OF CHRIST should shine unto them......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe......

Your gospel---> It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that WORK, GET WET and TRUST into their own meritorious abilities to help Jesus save themselves.....
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
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#15
Must remember that there is a spirit perspective and flesh. Jesus said my words are spirit and life...and before he rose from the dead he said God is of the living and not the dead...he also said Lazarus was sleeping.
 
H

hopesprings

Guest
#16
Why is it those that follow the man-made teaching of faith only do not understand that dead means dead??????

James said faith without works (faith only) is dead being alone. James 2:17.

James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is DEAD ALSO."

The physical body without the spirit is DEAD. What can a dead body do? Nothing. Why? It's DEAD. Likewise faith without works is DEAD and just like a DEAD body that cannot do anything, a dead faith cannot do anything either. Yet faith onlyists claim a dead faith only can do something, it supposedly can produce salvation and even works. How can a dead faith only produce anything when it's DEAD??? It cannot do anything anymore than a dead body can do something.
works are the natural outpouring of our faith
they r evidence of our salvation, not the cause of it

but I'm pretty sure we've been through this already .....
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#17
What you fail to understand Sea Perch is that James does not say that the works SAVED HIM, but rather that the works are evidence of SALVATION which he already HAS...The problem is that your Campbellism wont allow you to see the truth....makes me think of this verse as well...The devil hath blinded the minds of them that BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the GLORIOUS GOSPEL OF CHRIST should shine unto them......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe......

Your gospel---> It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that WORK, GET WET and TRUST into their own meritorious abilities to help Jesus save themselves.....

James said by works a man is justified and NOT by faith only.

Why does faith only not justify? It's DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD

As a body is dead without the spirit and cannot do anything like wise faith is dead without works and cannot do anything.

1 Cor 1:21 "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

1) belief is a work, Jn 6:27-29

2) Paul did not say "
them that believe only" for that would contradict Christ who said one must repent, confess and be baptized as Paul would contradict his own words where he made repentance, confession and baptism necessary to being saved, Acts 26:20, Rom 10:9,10; Rom 6:3-5. "Believe" is used as a synecdoche where it includes repentance, confession and baptism.
 
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hopesprings

Guest
#18
James said by works a man is justified and NOT by faith only.

Why does faith only not justify? It's DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD

As a body is dead without the spirit and cannot do anything like wise faith is dead without works and cannot do anything.

1 Cor 1:21 "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

1) belief is a work, Jn 6:27-29

2) Paul did not say "
them that believe only" for that would contradict Christ who said one must repent, confess and be baptized as Paul would contradict his own words where he made repentance, confession and baptism necessary to being saved, Acts 26:20, Rom 10:9,10; Rom 6:3-5. "Believe" is used as a synecdoche where it includes repentance, confession and baptism.
yet if u have faith as big as a mustard seed, u can move mountains
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#19
works are the natural outpouring of our faith
they r evidence of our salvation, not the cause of it

but I'm pretty sure we've been through this already .....

How can a DEAD faith only produce works, do anything when it's DEAD?

Can a DEAD body do anything? No, then how can a DEAD faith so anything like produce works when it's DEAD?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#20
yet if u have faith as big as a mustard seed, u can move mountains

But how can a DEAD faith only move mountains when it's DEAD void of works?

How can NO WORKS (faith only) move a mountain?

It takes a living, viable faith WITH WORKS to move a mountain.