Falling away?!?!

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Nov 21, 2014
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#41
Free from the guilt of sin. No condemnation. And as that realzation rises up in you, You sin less as you know how much He loves you. You dont want to sin. You want to live free from sin and you can. As you die to the fleash. Your mind is renewed. You are spirit soul and body. The body/flesh must die. The soul must align with your spirit which is perfect with God now. You are in heavenly places now. You know all things ie have the mind of Christ. Its just you dont know that you know it. You have the mind of Christ now. So access it now and stop doubting the things you dont understand. So many in here. hear something. Totally disreguard it with out any thought or understanding. Stop and think before you post. All I see is "I think, I think this and I think that"
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
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#42
If I am not free to choose good or to choose bad, I am not truly free, freedom becomes contingent. Christs love for me is not contingent on my behavior, but when you are truly in Christ he creates a new heart that desires Him and His ways. If your heart does not change like David's did, you must seriously examine your faith in the first place.
You do not understand the nature of true freedom.
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
48
#43
[h=2]Luke 8:13[/h] But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.


[h=2]John 6:66[/h] From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.


[h=2]Matthew 24:10-12[/h] And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.


[h=2]2 Timothy 3:1-7[/h] But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, holy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


[h=2]2 Timothy 4:3-4[/h] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.


[h=2]Jeremiah 17:5[/h] Thus says the LORD: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the LORD.

Rev2:4
Nevertheless I have somewhat against you, because you have left your first love.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#45
True freedom recognizes obligation. Freedom to do as one wishes is not freedom. There is no model of freedom found in scripture that is not bound by constraint. Scripture itself serves as a set of revealed constraints that obligate us to obey whatever comes out of the mouth of God. When one views freedom as latitude to do as one wishes this is a failure to understand what true freedom is. The Bible shows us that when we choose to do as we wish this is sin. Sin is the freedom to do as one wishes. Paul says this is what we have been freed from and have now become slaves to righteousness. This is true freedom.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#46
In my opinion the falling away is not backsliding Christians, the falling away is a falling away from the true source of life IN CHRIST ALONE. The falling away will be manifested in works based religions in which their core SYSTEMS rely upon. The martyrs were killed for their proclamation of Grace and freedom....why? Because The good news of Christ would have put a serious hurt on the systems relying on people's works. It's very simple. The "church" depends on brainwashed individuals to support its work based theology.
The critique of "works based theology" is rooted within the paradigm of the theology developed in the Reformation. That being the premise of "monergism" where God does ALL the work due to the "inability doctrine" which sits at the foundation of Reformed theology. Upon this basis is introduced the teaching of "Penal Substitution" (developed in the 16th century) where the basis of Justification is in a forensic legal exchange (ie. Jesus obeyed and was punished as a substitute) out of which the "Christ Alone + Nothing" is expounded.

The above is actually part of the falling away, it is not in opposition to it as so many may like to believe.

Jesus taught that the dynamic that brings salvation is "hearing + doing." It is in the DOING that transformation of the heart occurs. The grace of God that brings salvation teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldy lusts and to live soberly, uprightly in the present age. It is through godly sorrow working repentance unto salvation that an individual is positioned into a state where they are wholeheartedly yielded to the grace of God. This is the dynamic of "saved by grace THROUGH faith."

Satan has subverted "hearing and doing" via the fallacy of "Christ alone + nothing." Thus converts under this deception merely "confess" a state of sinfulness (which people are convinced cannot be forsaken due to inability doctrine) and then "trust" in the provision of "Christ alone + nothing." Thus salvation is redefined to be a mere abstraction as opposed to a transformation. The transformation in this doctrine is relegated to something that occurs later on down the road in sanctification. Thus it is perceived that those whom are saved remain "workers of iniquity" and passages like 1Joh 1:8 and Rom 7:14-28 are twisted to support such a notion.

Jesus taught that we are to strive to enter in at the strait gate and endure the narrow way which leads to life. The word strive literally means to diligently put in great effort or work.

When the Bible teaches "not of works" it is referring to the fact that outward rule keeping is not the dynamic of transformation. Salvation is wrought via "grace THROUGH faith" which is simply the dynamic of "wholehearted yielding to God." Law keepers rigidly hold to rules and regulations apart from the dynamic of "grace THROUGH faith" and that is the error Paul is contending against in his letter to the Galatians.

We are in a very dark time in the world today and genuine Christianity is manifested in only the few. Satan's ministers control the platform being the seminaries, tv stations, publishing houses, book stores, radio etc.

Jesus has warned that MANY people will cry out, "Lord, Lord" and Jesus will reject them. Jesus will call them "workers of iniquity."

These people who professed Jesus as Lord NEVER ceased from iniquity because in their mind they did not have to. Instead they trusted in a salvation that was a mere abstraction of the mind. They unfortunately rejected the transformative dynamic wrought through yielding wholeheartedly to God, a transformative dynamic which produced genuine purity of heart.

Please consider.
 
Last edited:
J

Jillyanne

Guest
#47
LOL......................
Just because I say I have the freedom to choose good or bad does NOT in any way imply that it would be good or beneficial for me to do so, but it also does not change the fact that free IS free. There is NO love relationship that wants ANY obligatory service. If someone lays down there life for another, there would be nothing right or acceptable in of an obligatory sacrafice. You serve out of a humble gratitude
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#48
Just because I say I have the freedom to choose good or bad does NOT in any way imply that it would be good or beneficial for me to do so, but it also does not change the fact that free IS free. There is NO love relationship that wants ANY obligatory service. If someone lays down there life for another, there would be nothing right or acceptable in of an obligatory sacrafice. You serve out of a humble gratitude
Like I said, you do not understood what spiritual freedom is.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
69
Alabama
#50
i am sorry sir, but I do not think that you understand love.
Love without obligation is not love. From the beginning of the Bible to the end one lesson that is presented over and over is that God commands obedience. This does not marginalize love.
 
J

Jillyanne

Guest
#51
The critique of "works based theology" is rooted within the paradigm of the theology developed in the Reformation. That being the premise of "monergism" where God does ALL the work due to the "inability doctrine" which sits at the foundation of Reformed theology. Upon this basis is introduced the teaching of "Penal Substitution" (developed in the 16th century) where the basis of Justification is in a forensic legal exchange (ie. Jesus obeyed and was punished as a substitute) out of which the "Christ Alone + Nothing" is expounded.

The above is actually part of the falling away, it is not in opposition to it as so many may like to believe.

Jesus taught that the dynamic that brings salvation is "hearing + doing." It is in the DOING that transformation of the heart occurs. The grace of God that brings salvation teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldy lusts and to live soberly, uprightly in the present age. It is through godly sorrow working repentance unto salvation that an individual is positioned into a state where they are wholeheartedly yielded to the grace of God. This is the dynamic of "saved by grace THROUGH faith."

Satan has subverted "hearing and doing" via the fallacy of "Christ alone + nothing." Thus converts under this deception merely "confess" a state of sinfulness (which people are convinced cannot be forsaken due to inability doctrine) and then "trust" in the provision of "Christ alone + nothing." Thus salvation is redefined to be a mere abstraction as opposed to a transformation. The transformation in this doctrine is relegated to something that occurs later on down the road in sanctification. Thus it is perceived that those whom are saved remain "workers of iniquity" and passages like 1Joh 1:8 and Rom 7:14-28 are twisted to support such a notion.

Jesus taught that we are to strive to enter in at the strait gate and endure the narrow way which leads to life. The word strive literally means to diligently put in great effort or work.

When the Bible teaches "not of works" it is referring to the fact that outward rule keeping is not the dynamic of transformation. Salvation is wrought via "grace THROUGH faith" which is simply the dynamic of "wholehearted yielding to God." Law keepers rigidly hold to rules and regulations apart from the dynamic of "grace THROUGH faith" and that is the error Paul is contending against in his letter to the Galatians.

We are in a very dark time in the world today and genuine Christianity is manifested in only the few. Satan's ministers control the platform being the seminaries, tv stations, publishing houses, book stores, radio etc.

Jesus has warned that MANY people will cry out, "Lord, Lord" and Jesus will reject them. Jesus will call them "workers of iniquity."

These people who professed Jesus as Lord NEVER ceased from iniquity because in their mind they did not have to. Instead they trusted in a salvation that was a mere abstraction of the mind. They unfortunately rejected the transformative dynamic wrought through yielding wholeheartedly to God, a transformative dynamic which produced genuine purity of heart.

Please consider.

you have just proved my point sir. Like I said, clear through History, the Christ + nothingers have been amongst the most unpopular crowd because their mouths didn't fair well for the hierarchies in place. The institutions needed the people to believe that they MUST do and GIVE according to their dogmas else the system would fail. These great martyrs loved God and believed in protecting their Saviors precious blood from the vampires.
 
J

Jillyanne

Guest
#52
Sorry for the last part of my comment, I've exceeded my patience. My apologies.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#53
In my opinion the falling away is not backsliding Christians, the falling away is a falling away from the true source of life IN CHRIST ALONE. The falling away will be manifested in works based religions in which their core SYSTEMS rely upon. The martyrs were killed for their proclamation of Grace and freedom....why? Because The good news of Christ would have put a serious hurt on the systems relying on people's works. It's very simple. The "church" depends on brainwashed individuals to support its work based theology.
The gospel of Messiah or the gospel about Messiah?

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Yahchanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 19-17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your efather and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection of Yahweh, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."

Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Mark 13:22-23, "For false messiahs and false prophets will rise, and will produce signs and wonders to lead astray, if it were possible, even the elect. So be on your guard! Behold I have warned you of all things beforehand!"

Yahchanan (John) 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Mattithyah 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#54
In my opinion the falling away is not backsliding Christians, the falling away is a falling away from the true source of life IN CHRIST ALONE. The falling away will be manifested in works based religions in which their core SYSTEMS rely upon. The martyrs were killed for their proclamation of Grace and freedom....why? Because The good news of Christ would have put a serious hurt on the systems relying on people's works. It's very simple. The "church" depends on brainwashed individuals to support its work based theology.
If you're referring to what the Scriptures teach on works you're argument is based on a misunderstanding of Paul's teaching. Paul was address a particular problem in his day.
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#55
The critique of "works based theology" is rooted within the paradigm of the theology developed in the Reformation. That being the premise of "monergism" where God does ALL the work due to the "inability doctrine" which sits at the foundation of Reformed theology. Upon this basis is introduced the teaching of "Penal Substitution" (developed in the 16th century) where the basis of Justification is in a forensic legal exchange (ie. Jesus obeyed and was punished as a substitute) out of which the "Christ Alone + Nothing" is expounded.

The above is actually part of the falling away, it is not in opposition to it as so many may like to believe.

Jesus taught that the dynamic that brings salvation is "hearing + doing." It is in the DOING that transformation of the heart occurs. The grace of God that brings salvation teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldy lusts and to live soberly, uprightly in the present age. It is through godly sorrow working repentance unto salvation that an individual is positioned into a state where they are wholeheartedly yielded to the grace of God. This is the dynamic of "saved by grace THROUGH faith."

Satan has subverted "hearing and doing" via the fallacy of "Christ alone + nothing." Thus converts under this deception merely "confess" a state of sinfulness (which people are convinced cannot be forsaken due to inability doctrine) and then "trust" in the provision of "Christ alone + nothing." Thus salvation is redefined to be a mere abstraction as opposed to a transformation. The transformation in this doctrine is relegated to something that occurs later on down the road in sanctification. Thus it is perceived that those whom are saved remain "workers of iniquity" and passages like 1Joh 1:8 and Rom 7:14-28 are twisted to support such a notion.

Jesus taught that we are to strive to enter in at the strait gate and endure the narrow way which leads to life. The word strive literally means to diligently put in great effort or work.

When the Bible teaches "not of works" it is referring to the fact that outward rule keeping is not the dynamic of transformation. Salvation is wrought via "grace THROUGH faith" which is simply the dynamic of "wholehearted yielding to God." Law keepers rigidly hold to rules and regulations apart from the dynamic of "grace THROUGH faith" and that is the error Paul is contending against in his letter to the Galatians.

We are in a very dark time in the world today and genuine Christianity is manifested in only the few. Satan's ministers control the platform being the seminaries, tv stations, publishing houses, book stores, radio etc.

Jesus has warned that MANY people will cry out, "Lord, Lord" and Jesus will reject them. Jesus will call them "workers of iniquity."

These people who professed Jesus as Lord NEVER ceased from iniquity because in their mind they did not have to. Instead they trusted in a salvation that was a mere abstraction of the mind. They unfortunately rejected the transformative dynamic wrought through yielding wholeheartedly to God, a transformative dynamic which produced genuine purity of heart.

Please consider.
Can I get an AMEN!!!
 
J

Jillyanne

Guest
#56
If you're referring to what the Scriptures teach on works you're argument is based on a misunderstanding of Paul's teaching. Paul was address a particular problem in his day.
Gods word is applicable to ALL people at ALL times


16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Same problems/different days. God gives us all we need. We are saved unto good works, NOT by them!!!
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#57
In my opinion the falling away is not backsliding Christians, the falling away is a falling away from the true source of life IN CHRIST ALONE. The falling away will be manifested in works based religions in which their core SYSTEMS rely upon. The martyrs were killed for their proclamation of Grace and freedom....why? Because The good news of Christ would have put a serious hurt on the systems relying on people's works. It's very simple. The "church" depends on brainwashed individuals to support its work based theology.
I do agree from the perspective of following a worldly organization.

Phillipians 3:20, "But our citizenship is in heaven, out from which we also eagerly wait for our Ruler, Yahshua Messiah the King"

Online Etymology Dictionary

church (n.) Old English cirice, circe "church, public place of worship; Christians collectively," from West Germanic *kirika (cf. Old Saxon kirika, Old Norse kirkja, Old Frisian zerke, Middle Dutch kerke, Dutch kerk, Old High German kirihha, German Kirche), probably [see note in OED] from Greek kyriake (oikia), kyriakon doma "Lord's (house)," from kyrios "ruler, lord," from PIE root *keue- "to swell" ("swollen," hence "strong, powerful"); see cumulus. Phonetic spelling from c.1200, established by 16c. For vowel evolution, see bury. As an adjective from 1570s.

Online Etymology Dictionary

Circe (n.) Enchantress of the isle of Aea who transformed into swine those who drank from her cup ("Odyssey"), late 14c., from Latin Circe, from Greek Kirke. Related: Circean.

Revelation 17:4, "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication."

Revelation 18:3, "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication..."

1 Corinthians 14:33, "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." KJV

1577 - ekklésia
ekklésia: an assembly, a (religious) congregation
Original Word: ἐκκλησία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ekklésia
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-klay-see'-ah)
Short Definition: an assembly, congregation, church
Definition: an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers.
Word Origin - from ek and kaleó
Definition - an assembly, a (religious) congregation

"For Yahweh is not the author of confusion"

church...Circe...1 Corinthians 14:33...how ironic...
 
Nov 3, 2014
1,045
5
0
#58
"Sorry for the last part of my comment, I've exceeded my patience. My apologies"


You do not have to be sorry .... I know what you are talking about

The entire truth about the gospel is that those who choose Jesus Christ are set free

The spirit filled believer is lead by His spirit and strives to please Him ..... one is set free to do this and is not shackled by the religious dogmas of men [the condition of most of the professing church today]

[John 8:32; 8:36; Romans 8:2]

 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#59
There are other sections of the forum that hold hands and play games, I even sometimes join them, you can too.
Bible Discussion is filled with arguing , its the nature of the beast, as it's filled with a mixture of truth and error.
Does God tolerate error?

If so, how wrong can someone be before God no longer tolerates it?
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#60
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.