Generational curses.

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#21
but in modern times we have pastors who have made a new "pauline" gospel, in which his words are twisted

2 Kepha 3:15-16, "...Shaul, in accordance with the wisdom given to him, has written to you, As also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which those who are unlearned and unstable twist, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
 
S

soccermom19

Guest
#22
I am a follower of the Lamb of Yahweh
Do you believe that God sent his son, Jesus Christ, to pay the price for all of our sins with his blood?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#23
The gospel of Messiah or the gospel about Messiah?

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Yahchanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 19-17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your efather and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection of Yahweh, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."

Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Mark 13:22-23, "For false messiahs and false prophets will rise, and will produce signs and wonders to lead astray, if it were possible, even the elect. So be on your guard! Behold I have warned you of all things beforehand!"

Yahchanan (John) 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Mattithyah 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#25
You got scripture for that or did ya just hear it from someone you cant remember
I read it off a beer mat.

no need for verses, just common sense, also if I did give a verse or whatever, waht does that prove? nothing really, as single verses are often used by two people arguing different theological views, its just your inerpretation of them.

At end of day Generational curses and other spiritual stuff like Soul Ties exist for a born again Christian who is now living within Christ, its dead easy to remove, just ask God to remove them by renouncing and asking forgiveness etc. Simple takes only a minute or two if that and there it all goes, all done dusted and removed from your life.
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
#26
The Creator gives Instructions, when those Instructions are disobeyed there is always one or more bad consequences.

There are things that Yahweh says not to eat (vultures, catfish, pigs, etc) but if a human chooses to eat them it can have detrimental health effects. A lifetime of eating pork can cause an increased chance of cancers, heart disease, and more. These diseases are damaged DNA. This damaged DNA can be handed down. People say, "I have an increased risk of heart disease in my family." Now apply these same principles to sexual Laws and even moral Laws in how people treat each other... Over time these things effect DNA.
I would like to see some significant peer-reviewed research that resulted in a clear case for DNA damage from eating pork, catfish, etc. in general. I wouldn't need proof I shouldn't eat catfish a little below an old riverside cinnabar mine (mercury).

The Christian God that is the same one you referenced taught Peter a lesson about a habit of the Jews regarding Gentiles as unclean, equaled to pigs. He gave Peter a vision, and in it God commanded Peter to eat of all sorts of unclean animals (Acts 10:9-16). Would your perspective allow holy God to use error to teach truth? The lesson was a commandment to change his mind about Gentiles, to offer the gospel to them.

Paul admonished us not to judge anyone concerning food too often to have children of God in fear of any food.My favorite verse showing there is no curse for believers on any food is:

1 Timothy 4:1-3 (KJV)

[SUP]1 [/SUP]
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


The New Covenant is not about curses. The Law of Moses carried blessings and curses, some lasting through 4 generations over just one person's sin. The curses, such as concerning eating forbidden foods, were ended for us by Jesus. A person that is outside of Christ is still a law-breaker, under judgment of the Law of Moses whether a Jew or not, and subject to those curses, even to a fourth generation.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#27
5. Law of Sin and Law of Righteousness: Rom 7:7-25, Rom 8:1-4, Rom 9:31
6. Law of the Flesh and Law of the Spirit: Rom7:5,6 Rom 8:1-4, Gal 5:16-26

Do you know of the love of CHrist with out any threats?

With out love you have nothing.
Proverbs 27:5-6, "Open rebuke is better than concealed love. Faithful are the wounds from a friend, but the kisses from an enemy are deceitful."

and why stop at v4? Rom 8:1-4

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

satan has tricked people into believing that they have "freedom"... and people love their "freedom"....but THAT "freedom" is what have transformed the places of worship into.... well there are babylonian/egyptian pillars on most of the roofs of the churches...

Listen to the Messiah own words

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Mattithyah 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Yahchanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#28


I would like to see some significant peer-reviewed research that resulted in a clear case for DNA damage from eating pork, catfish, etc. in general. I wouldn't need proof I shouldn't eat catfish a little below an old riverside cinnabar mine (mercury).

The Christian God that is the same one you referenced taught Peter a lesson about a habit of the Jews regarding Gentiles as unclean, equaled to pigs. He gave Peter a vision, and in it God commanded Peter to eat of all sorts of unclean animals (Acts 10:9-16). Would your perspective allow holy God to use error to teach truth? The lesson was a commandment to change his mind about Gentiles, to offer the gospel to them.

Paul admonished us not to judge anyone concerning food too often to have children of God in fear of any food.My favorite verse showing there is no curse for believers on any food is:

1 Timothy 4:1-3 (KJV)

[SUP]1 [/SUP]
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


The New Covenant is not about curses. The Law of Moses carried blessings and curses, some lasting through 4 generations over just one person's sin. The curses, such as concerning eating forbidden foods, were ended for us by Jesus. A person that is outside of Christ is still a law-breaker, under judgment of the Law of Moses whether a Jew or not, and subject to those curses, even to a fourth generation.
SO heart disease in the family has nothing to do with trichinosis worm?

and no man has no complete grasp over Yahweh creation thus we should obey the Creator.

Mark 16:9-20 Added verses?

Amplified Bible (AMP)
9 Now Jesus, having risen [from death] early on the first day of the week, appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had driven out seven demons.
Footnotes:
Mark 16:9 Some of the earliest manuscripts do not contain verses 9-20. Hermann Cremer, Biblico-Theological Lexicon.


Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
9 When Yeshua rose early Sunday, he appeared first to Miryam of Magdala, from whom he had expelled seven demons.
Footnotes:
Mark 16:9 Verses 9–20 are found in many ancient Greek manuscripts but not in the two oldest ones


Contemporary English Version (CEV)
a9 Very early on the first day of the week, after Jesus had risen to life, he appeared to Mary Magdalene. Earlier he had forced seven demons out of her.
ANOTHER OLD ENDING TO MARK’S GOSPEL[b9]
b9-10 The women quickly told Peter and his friends what had happened. Later, Jesus sent the disciples to the east and to the west with his sacred and everlasting message of how people can be saved forever.
Footnotes:
16.9 One Old Ending to Mark’s Gospel: Verses 9-20 are not in some manuscripts
16.9,10 Another Old Ending to Mark’s Gospel: Some manuscripts and early translations have both this shorter ending and the longer one (verses 9-20)


English Standard Version (ESV)
[Some of the earliest manuscripts do not include 16:9–20.][a]
9 [[Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.
Footnotes:
Mark 16:9 Some manuscripts end the book with 16:8; others include verses 9–20 immediately after verse 8. At least one manuscript inserts additional material after verse 14; some manuscripts include after verse 8 the following: But they reported briefly to Peter and those with him all that they had been told. And after this, Jesus himself sent out by means of them, from east to west, the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation. These manuscripts then continue with verses 9–20

Expanded Bible (EXB)
9 After Jesus rose from the dead early on the first day of the week, he showed himself first to Mary Magdalene. One time in the past, he had ·forced [driven; cast] seven demons out of her.
Footnotes:
Verses 9–20 are not included in some of the earliest surviving Greek copies of Mark and have significant stylistic differences from the rest of Mark’s Gospel.

1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

9 [a]And when Jesus was risen again, early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils:
Footnotes:
Mark 16:9 Christ himself appeareth to Mary Magdalene to upbraid the disciples’ incredulity.

Good News Translation (GNT)
AN OLD ENDING TO THE GOSPEL[a]
a9 After Jesus rose from death early on Sunday, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had driven out seven demons.
ANOTHER OLD ENDING[b9]
b9-10 [The women went to Peter and his friends and gave them a brief account of all they had been told. After this, Jesus himself sent out through his disciples from the east to the west the sacred and everliving message of eternal salvation.]
Footnotes:
Mark 16:9 Some manuscripts and ancient translations do not have this ending to the Gospel (verses 9-20)
Mark 16:9 Some manuscripts and ancient translations have this shorter ending to the Gospel in addition to the longer ending (verses 9-20)

Living Bible (TLB)
9 [a] It was early on Sunday morning when Jesus came back to life, and the first person who saw him was Mary Magdalene—the woman from whom he had cast out seven demons.
Footnotes:
Mark 16:9 Verses 9-20 are not found in the most ancient manuscripts, but may be considered an appendix giving additional facts.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
9[a]Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.
Footnotes:
Mark 16:9 Later mss add vv 9-20

New International Version (NIV)
9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.
[The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]

World English Bible (WEB)
9 [a]Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.
Footnotes:
Mark 16:9 NU includes the text of verses 9-20, but mentions in a footnote that a few manuscripts omitted it. The translators of the World English Bible regard Mark 16:9-20 as reliable based on an overwhelming majority of textual evidence, including not only the authoritative Greek Majority Text New Testament, but also the TR and many of the manuscripts cited in the NU text.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#29
*puts on lab coat designed for studying tavistock culture*

*simmers the pot down to nearly nothing*

Observes 2 groups of people....

group A:

the Messiah's blood = sins wiped clean and no more obedience to Instructions aka party time!

group B:

the Messiah's blood = sins wiped clean and a desire to want to be exactly Yahweh wants, not giving up because I error.

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#30


I would like to see some significant peer-reviewed research that resulted in a clear case for DNA damage from eating pork, catfish, etc. in general. I wouldn't need proof I shouldn't eat catfish a little below an old riverside cinnabar mine (mercury).

The Christian God that is the same one you referenced taught Peter a lesson about a habit of the Jews regarding Gentiles as unclean, equaled to pigs. He gave Peter a vision, and in it God commanded Peter to eat of all sorts of unclean animals (Acts 10:9-16). Would your perspective allow holy God to use error to teach truth? The lesson was a commandment to change his mind about Gentiles, to offer the gospel to them.

Paul admonished us not to judge anyone concerning food too often to have children of God in fear of any food.My favorite verse showing there is no curse for believers on any food is:

1 Timothy 4:1-3 (KJV)

[SUP]1 [/SUP]
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


The New Covenant is not about curses. The Law of Moses carried blessings and curses, some lasting through 4 generations over just one person's sin. The curses, such as concerning eating forbidden foods, were ended for us by Jesus. A person that is outside of Christ is still a law-breaker, under judgment of the Law of Moses whether a Jew or not, and subject to those curses, even to a fourth generation.
"Thus Jesus declared all foods clean"

Mark 7:1-23, "Then the Pharisees and certain scribes came together to Him, having come from Yerusalem. 2 And when they saw some of His disciples eating bread with defiled-that is to say, unwashed--hands, they found fault. 3 (Now the Pharisees, and the Yahdaim generally, never eat without washing their hands, holding the tradition of the elders. 4 And when they come from the marketplaces, they do not eat unless they wash. And many other traditions they observe, such as the ritual washing of cups, pots, bronze utensils, and beds.) 5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? 6 He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites--as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. 7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men! 9 Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition! 10 For Mosheh said: Honor your father and your mother; and: Whoever curses father or mother, let him be put to death; 11 But you say; If a man will say to his father or mother: Anything of mine which might have benefited you is qorban (that is, a gift set apart for Yahweh)-- 12 You excuse him from doing what he is obligated to do for his father and his mother; 13 Making the Laws of Yahweh of no effect through your ctradition you have handed down! And many other similar things you do. 14 And when He had called all the people to Him, He said to them: Everyone, listen to Me and understand! 15 There is nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are things which defile the man. 16 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear! 17 But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable. 18 He said to them; Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 Because it does not enter into his heart but his stomach, and then into the toilet as all food is cleansed out? 20 Then He said: That which comes out of the man, that defiles the man; 21 For from within--out of the heart of men, dfrom his mind--proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, lust, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness-- 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

Mark 7:1-23,

1 Then the Pharisees and certain scribes came together to Him, having come from Yerusalem.

2 And when they saw some of His disciples eating bread with defiled-that is to say, unwashed--hands, they found fault.

3 (Now the Pharisees, and the Yahdaim generally, never eat without washing their hands, holding the tradition of the elders.

4 And when they come from the marketplaces, they do not eat unless they wash. And many other traditions they observe, such as the ritual washing of cups, pots, bronze utensils, and beds.)

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?

6 He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites--as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.

7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men!

9 Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!

So clearly Yahshua the Messiah rebukes them for not only making their own "laws" but actually casting aside the Laws of Yahweh. Since foods neing clean or unclean is a common understand attached to this passage, let us consider if food Laws are man made or if the Creator made these Laws.

Genesis 7:1-2, "Then Yahweh said to Noah: Come into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen you righteous before Me in this generation. You shall take with you seven pairs of every clean animal, a male and his female; two of animals that are unclean, a male and his female;"

Leviticus 11:1-2, "And Yahweh spoke to Mosheh and Aaron, saying to them: Speak to the children of Israyl, saying; These are the animals you may eat among all the beasts upon the land" 43-44, "You shall not make yourselves abominable with any creature that moves about on the ground. Do not defile yourselves by means of them, nor be made unclean by them. I am Yahweh your Heavenly Father. You shall therefore consecrate and sanctify yourselves, and you shall be holy; for I am holy. Neither shall you defile yourselves with any creature that moves about on the ground." 46-47, "This is the Law of the animals, and the birds, and every living thing that moves in the waters, and every creature that moves about on the ground. You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean--between the animal that may be eaten, and the animal that may not be eaten."

We can see these Laws literally came directly from the mouth of Yahweh, so when Messiah said: "How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!" It is clear He is not rebuking them for telling people to follow Yahweh's food Laws, but for their pharisee hand washing "law."

Malakyah 3:6-7, "For I am Yahweh, I change not; therefore you sons of Yaaqob are not consumed. Ever since the days of your fathers you have turned away from My ordinances, and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you! says Yahweh of hosts. But you said; How will we return?"

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

10 For Mosheh said: Honor your father and your mother; and: Whoever curses father or mother, let him be put to death;

11 But you say; If a man will say to his father or mother: Anything of mine which might have benefited you is qorban (that is, a gift set apart for Yahweh)--

12 You excuse him from doing what he is obligated to do for his father and his mother;

13 Making the Laws of Yahweh of no effect through your ctradition you have handed down! And many other similar things you do.

More evidence of the pharisees adding their own laws to the people why excusing themselves from following Yahweh;s Law.

14 And when He had called all the people to Him, He said to them: Everyone, listen to Me and understand!

15 There is nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are things which defile the man.

16 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear!

17 But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable.

Because Messiah say: "nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him" many that want to reject Yahweh;s food Laws say see I can eat! But when did context of Scripture not matter? In context the entire passage is about eating with "unwashed--hands." Can we completely roemove it from its context and expect to get the true meaning? Also if you consider verse 17, "His disciples asked Him about the parable," yet "all things are clean food" is taught as doctrine, not as parable........Again in context vesrse 17, parable. SO Meswsiah proceeds to explain further:

18 He said to them; Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him,

19 Because it does not enter into his heart; mind, but his stomach, and then into the toilet as all food is eliminated?

19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

Now this is where the deception comes in, as you see I have shown verse 19 translated 2 different ways. Which one is correct? The second translation is the much more common translation, here is a short list of translations that match the second translation (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean): New International Version, New Living Translation, English Standard Version, New American Standard Bible, Holman Christian Standard Bible, NET Bible, GOD'S WORD Translation, English Revised Version, Weymouth New Testament.

We will look at the original language, but first I want to mention again, CONTEXT, can we somehow go from the whole topic being about a hand washing ritual and unclan animals not even being in the discussion to unclean animals are now food?



The first thing you will notice is the words, "In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean," are completely absent. Before moving on, I want to ask, why did someone feel the need to forge words into the text that are not there. Is it ok to just add words wherever I want? Of course not.

19 Because it does not enter into his heart but his stomach, and then into the toilet (856) as all food is cleansed out (2511)?

19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

856 - aphedrón
aphedrón: a place of sitting apart, i.e. a privy, drain
Original Word: ἀφεδρών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aphedrón
Phonetic Spelling: (af-ed-rone')
Short Definition: a drain, latrine
Definition: a drain, latrine
Word Origin - from apo and hedraios
Definition - a place of sitting apart, i.e. a privy, drain

2511 - katharizó
katharizó: to cleanse
Original Word: καθαρίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katharizó
Phonetic Spelling: (kath-ar-id'-zo)
Short Definition: I make clean
Definition: I cleanse, make clean, literally, ceremonially, or spiritually, according to context.
Word Origin - from katharos
Definition - to cleanse

20 Then He said: That which comes out of the man, that defiles the man;

21 For from within--out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, lust, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness--

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

No this is not about pork, it is about the pharisee making a show they are holy with their appearances, but Messiah is saying evil is that which should be guarded against.

This exact same account is also detailed in Mattithyah 15, and this is also shown there:

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mattithyah 15:17, "Do you not yet understand that whatever enters in at the mouth goes into the stomach, and then is cast out in elimination?"

But is we keep readin we see the meaning of the PARABLE:

Mark 7:17, " But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable."

Mattithyah 15:15, "But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us."

Kepha is Peter, so if all foods were cleansed why did Kepha years later still not eat unclean food?

Acts 10:14, "But Kepha said; By no means, Ruler, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."

Because Mark 7 & and Matt 15 were not about food but a pharisee hand washing ritual as the parable is explained here:

Mattithyah 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

As Acts 10 was not about food either:

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

So in Mattithyah the parable is fully explained, yet in Mark it is not, is it possibe that is why those false words were added to Mark 7:19? If they were added to Mattithyah 15, it would have been a contradiction, but Mark having not being fully explained, it left the door open?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#31
You know we are no longer under that? Many still preach it today.
If one breaks a Law concerning intercourse can they not catch an STD and pass it on in their DNA?

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#32
You know we are no longer under that? Many still preach it today.
Thank God, something we agree upon.

I don't know why people preach it today. I think it has to do with the fact they don't understand the NEW Covenant that Jesus made with His people.

Here are the scriptures that show its been done away with:

Jeremiah 31
[SUP]29 [/SUP]In those days they shall say no more:‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’

[SUP]30 [/SUP]But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.
[h=3]A New Covenant[/h][SUP]31 [/SUP]“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— [SUP]32 [/SUP]not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[SUP][a][/SUP] says the Lord. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. [SUP]34 [/SUP]No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#33
Thank God, something we agree upon.

I don't know why people preach it today. I think it has to do with the fact they don't understand the NEW Covenant that Jesus made with His people.

Here are the scriptures that show its been done away with:

Jeremiah 31
[SUP]29 [/SUP]In those days they shall say no more:‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’

[SUP]30 [/SUP]But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.
A New Covenant

[SUP]31 [/SUP]“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— [SUP]32 [/SUP]not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[SUP][a][/SUP] says the Lord. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. [SUP]34 [/SUP]No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
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#34
If Hizikya wants to be under the law - so be it. It is a burden to carry though. I'll take the yoke of Jesus, "Come unto me, and I will give you rest. My yoke is easy...". I'll take the gift of His Righteousness, as Isaiah so wonderfully called Him Our Righteousness.

Also, if someone thinks they have a generational curse bothering them, then it surely doesn't hurt for them to pray that it be broken. They don't have anything to lose. I choose to believe that I am a new creature IN Christ with a new Spirit -the Holy Spirit living in me!

It really boils down to what you have faith for. I take the easy road. Some never do.
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#35
If Hizikya wants to be under the law - so be it. It is a burden to carry though. I'll take the yoke of Jesus, "Come unto me, and I will give you rest. My yoke is easy...". I'll take the gift of His Righteousness, as Isaiah so wonderfully called Him Our Righteousness.

Also, if someone thinks they have a generational curse bothering them, then it surely doesn't hurt for them to pray that it be broken. They don't have anything to lose. I choose to believe that I am a new creature IN Christ with a new Spirit -the Holy Spirit living in me!

It really boils down to what you have faith for. I take the easy road. Some never do.
Romans 2:12, "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."
 
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
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#36
You know we are no longer under that? Many still preach it today.

Ok Next question was Paul under the law? or did paul concider it dung?

7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
First question,....... "You know we are no longer under that?"(generational curses),......
Right, see this verse.......


Ezekiel 18:20

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Second question and third question....... Paul was not under the law (by the letter) but Paul lived by the law of faith which establishes the law. Allow me to show this with scripture.......

Third question first,.......

Paul says the law (by the letter) is good (not considered dung) if a man use it lawfully and that the law (by the letter) was made for the lawless and disobedient. He also says that by the deeds of the law (by the letter) no flesh will be justified in God's sight.

1Timothy 1:8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Romans 3:19

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Second question....... Paul was not under the law (by the letter) mentioned above. He was living by the law of faith
which establishes the law.

Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#37
Also, if someone thinks they have a generational curse bothering them, then it surely doesn't hurt for them to pray that it be broken.
Just for the record, I was just using "family heart disease" as as example, no family history of it here. I have no personal stake in the view.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#38
the law of faith which establishes the law
I think it all can be summed up in this.

I agree with those Scriptural views 100% IF. If, "the law of faith which establishes the law" is in accordance with the Law of Yahweh. One can not walk in the Spirit and go against everything the Spirit says, it is impossible. If this faith which establishes the Law makes ones heart desire the same things that are in the written Law, then it is true and right.

On the other hand if the "the law of faith which establishes the law" leads to the justification and/or acceptance of sinful acts then it is of a false spirit.

If you agree with this then the only question would be, what is a sin?
 
May 15, 2013
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#39
You know we are no longer under that? Many still preach it today.
If you have a murderer down in your bloodline, then there's a chance that you will become one as well. But when you believe in the word as the whole truth, then when those thoughts comes into your mind, the word will remind you of what it is written about murderers. The more you keep the word in your mind, the more you'll become like the word and which that is grafting yourself onto the word and disconnecting from your old nature.
 
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
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#40
I think it all can be summed up in this.

I agree with those Scriptural views 100% IF. If, "the law of faith which establishes the law" is in accordance with the Law of Yahweh. One can not walk in the Spirit and go against everything the Spirit says, it is impossible. If this faith which establishes the Law makes ones heart desire the same things that are in the written Law, then it is true and right.

Amen.


Brother Hizikyah,
The Spirit in us that have received the "Promise" through faith in Jesus Christ, is one with the will of the Father (El Abba) and the Son (Yahoshua Messiah). The law (by the letter and by faith) is written on our hearts. We can not go against what the Spirit says.

Jeremiah 31:33

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:7
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 6:17
Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: 18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: 19Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; 20Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
 
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