Being clean physically and spiritually

[Blain]

Ok so have you ever noticed how when you havent taken a decent shower in a long time like say you are homeless and can't bathe or say you are drenched in sweat and you reek from either work or sports and then you take a shower. You know how amazing it feels to be clean? Like it's really an amazing feeling that makes you feel refreshed. I think God intended our bodies to love feeling and being clean because that is how he wants us to be inwardly too. I mean when your dirty inside you are full of anger, and even sin itself makes you feel bad. I can't tell how how dirty I feel inside when I do certain things and it's never comfortable.

Ezekiel 36:25


"Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
Psalms 24:4


He who has clean hands and a pure heart, Who has not lifted up his soul to falsehood And has not sworn deceitfully.

Now honestly I only like to use scripture to encourage others but I am tired of certain ppl harassing me because I don't post scripture with most of my post here. Honestly If a Christian cannot use scripture to how he feels he is called to without being badgered then something is wrong

 

[Hizikyah]

Amazing and humbling thing.

And im not afraid to say it, when I disobey Yahweh I feel terrible because I want to make Him proud of me, and when I choose the right path that Yahweh has set before me I do take joy because I know it what He wants, it is what is right, and its whats best for all. Not for any self worth or self gratification, but so my soul may be in the right state so Yahweh may look upon me with joy and gladly say im His child.

Praise and glory be to Yahweh! may Your will be so!

Isayah 59:1-3, "Behold, Yahweh's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; nor His ear heavy, that it cannot hear. But your own iniquities have separated you from your Father; and your own sins have caused Him to hide His face from you, so He will not listen. For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; sin. Your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perverseness."

1 Kepha 3:12, "For the eyes of Yahweh are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers; but the face of Yahweh is against those who do evil."

Proverbs 15:29, "Yahweh is far from the wicked, but He hears the prayer of the righteous."

 

[maxwel]

Blain, I'm not entirely understanding your point.

Could you just expand it a bit, or clarify it for me?

Thanks.

 

[Blain]

Blain, I'm not entirely understanding your point.

Could you just expand it a bit, or clarify it for me?

Thanks.

My point is I find it fascinating how our bodies love the feeling of being clean because God has always commanded us to be clean inside and it's like our bodies reaction to feeling clean is a direct outcome of his will for us to be clean spiritually.

 

[p_rehbein]

Being physically cleansed......flesh.........causes one to feel refreshed/regenerated......natural/earthly response......

Being spiritually cleansed causes one to feel refreshed/regenerated........reconciled to God......

Jesus spoke of this when he taught about those who cleanse the outside of the cup but leave the inside of the cup dirty....not cleansed......

Yes the two are similar...........even in their effects upon us...........BUT......one is of FAR GREATER importance than the other.

 

[4enlightment]

My point is I find it fascinating how our bodies love the feeling of being clean because God has always commanded us to be clean inside and it's like our bodies reaction to feeling clean is a direct outcome of his will for us to be clean spiritually.

But there are some that can't relate to the feeling of having a clean body.

2 Peter 2:22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”

 

[kennethcadwell]

But there are some that can't relate to the feeling of having a clean body.

2 Peter 2:22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”

This scripture has nothing to do with having a clean body.
It is referring to those who were once washed by their faith in the Lord, but then return to a life of willful sin.
They start obeying the sins in their lusts, instead of obeying the Lord. Now their ending will be worse, for they should have stayed in the faith instead of turn their back on Him.

 

[4enlightment]

This scripture has nothing to do with having a clean body.
It is referring to those who were once washed by their faith in the Lord, but then return to a life of willful sin.
They start obeying the sins in their lusts, instead of obeying the Lord. Now their ending will be worse, for they should have stayed in the faith instead of turn their back on Him.

Well, they had forgotten or didn't pay any attention about the feeling of being clean, or else they wouldn't have had went back to their own filthiness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This scripture has nothing to do with having a clean body.
It is referring to those who were once washed by their faith in the Lord, but then return to a life of willful sin.
They start obeying the sins in their lusts, instead of obeying the Lord. Now their ending will be worse, for they should have stayed in the faith instead of turn their back on Him.

I must disagree.

It is talking about a Dog, WHo tried to act like a different creature, but since it was not changed on the inside, it returned to what it always was.

It was never saved, It is like th eold saying, You can teach a dog a new trick, and it can act different, but will always go back to doing what it knows.

As this thread is a topic of internal cleansing, thay dog was never internally cleaned, it has an outward appearance, as it was trying to learn new things, but it will always be a dog, thus go back to what it really is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, they had forgotten or didn't pay any attention about the feeling of being clean, or else they wouldn't have had went back to their own filthiness.

Yes, because to them, it was not filthy, it was a delicacy. thats why they went back to it, because it tastes food to them.

 

[maxwel]

Uhhhh....

2Peter 2:22 is referring to a verse in Proverbs.
Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

This has nothing to do with outward cleansing, inward cleansing, or any other kind of cleansing.

In the OT, certainly animals like dogs and pigs were metaphors for lost men... people without God.
In Proverbs, the term "fool" is also used for a lost man... someone without God.

This verse is simply using the metaphor of a dog, and showing us how a lost man acts.

There is no cleansing going on... it's just giving us wisdom... showing us how a lost man acts, and why.

(It IS possible for a saved person to ACT like a lost person... but it isn't what God expects of us.
This verse in Proverbs is strictly there to impart wisdom to us about lost men... so we understanding HOW and WHY lost men behave the way they do.)

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well, they had forgotten or didn't pay any attention about the feeling of being clean, or else they wouldn't have had went back to their own filthiness.

I must disagree.

It is talking about a Dog, WHo tried to act like a different creature, but since it was not changed on the inside, it returned to what it always was.

It was never saved, It is like th eold saying, You can teach a dog a new trick, and it can act different, but will always go back to doing what it knows.

As this thread is a topic of internal cleansing, thay dog was never internally cleaned, it has an outward appearance, as it was trying to learn new things, but it will always be a dog, thus go back to what it really is.

First, Jesus gives us the reasons why people either do not come to the faith, or then fall from the faith in Him in His parable about the sower and the seed.

Second, verse 20 of 2 Peter 2 states that they have escaped the defilement's of the world through Jesus. That means they had faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Only through Him can you escape ( be forgiven ) of the sins of this world. Then it goes on to say they are again entangled in worldly sins and overcome by them, meaning they give into them.

 

[4enlightment]

Uhhhh....

2Peter 2:22 is referring to a verse in Proverbs.
Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

This has nothing to do with outward cleansing, inward cleansing, or any other kind of cleansing.

In the OT, certainly animals like dogs and pigs were metaphors for lost men... people without God.
In Proverbs, the term "fool" is also used for a lost man... someone without God.

This verse is simply using the metaphor of a dog, and showing us how a lost man acts.

There is no cleansing going on... it's just giving us wisdom... showing us how a lost man acts, and why.

(It IS possible for a saved person to ACT like a lost person... but it isn't what God expects of us.
This verse in Proverbs is strictly there to impart wisdom to us about lost men... so we understanding HOW and WHY lost men behave the way they do.)

If you Baptize a swine, all it's going to do afterward, is to go back to their wicked ways. In order to return to its follies, it must of have once been in the opposing side. And so , what is the opposing side of dirty? In order for me to return back to my house, is that I'd must of had been out of the house.

 

[4enlightment]

First, Jesus gives us the reasons why people either do not come to the faith, or then fall from the faith in Him in His parable about the sower and the seed.

Second, verse 20 of 2 Peter 2 states that they have escaped the defilement's of the world through Jesus. That means they had faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Only through Him can you escape ( be forgiven ) of the sins of this world. Then it goes on to say they are again entangled in worldly sins and overcome by them, meaning they give into them.

It is because we doesn't has a heart like His, and which David asked for.

Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

pure (py

r)adj. pur·er, pur·est1. Having a homogeneous or uniform composition; not mixed: pure oxygen.
2. Free from adulterants or impurities: pure chocolate.
3. Free of dirt, defilement, or pollution: "A memory without blot or contamination must be . . . an inexhaustible source of pure refreshment" (Charlotte Brontë).
4. Free of foreign elements.
5. Containing nothing inappropriate or extraneous: a pure literary style.
6. Complete; utter: pure folly.
7. Having no faults; sinless: "I felt pure and sweet as a new baby" (Sylvia Plath).
8. Chaste; virgin.
9. Of unmixed blood or ancestry.
10. Genetics Produced by self-fertilization or continual inbreeding; homozygous: a pure line.
11. Music Free from discordant qualities: pure tones.
12. Linguistics Articulated with a single unchanging speech sound; monophthongal: a pure vowel.
13. Theoretical: pure science.
14. Philosophy Free of empirical elements: pure reason.

 

[kennethcadwell]

If you Baptize a swine, all it's going to do afterward, is to go back to their wicked ways. In order to return to its follies, it must of have once been in the opposing side. And so , what is the opposing side of dirty? In order for me to return back to my house, is that I'd must of had been out of the house.

Exactly, so to put this in the context of the bible;
These people like us all were against God. Then through faith in the Lord and repentance of their sins they are now part of the Lord's sheep. They then return to giving into willful sin of the world, and obeying the lust in their heart instead of obeying the Lord. They returned to their life of sin, instead of staying in the grace of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First, Jesus gives us the reasons why people either do not come to the faith, or then fall from the faith in Him in His parable about the sower and the seed.

In the parable of the sower and the seed, Only one seed grew roots which attached to the water source (the source of life) and were firmly engrained. The other were seed which never grew root with planted itself. so it faded and withered away, He was showing all the ways in which people try to come to God, and showing there is only one way, the rest will fade away to oblivian.

This is not talking about that, It is talking about a dog, always being a dog. it returned because it was not changed into a new creature.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

This did not happen to the dog, that is why they returned to their own vomit. a creature will always do what its natural tendancies are.

Second, verse 20 of 2 Peter 2 states that they have escaped the defilement's of the world through Jesus. That means they had faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Only through Him can you escape ( be forgiven ) of the sins of this world. Then it goes on to say they are again entangled in worldly sins and overcome by them, meaning they give into them.

No it does not mean they had faith. Many people come to church, walk with the body, and escape the pollution of this world just by being around those blessed by God. it does not mean they have ever accepted CHrist or been saved.

As paul said, those saved (in Christ) are made a new creation, they are not dogs, and would never return to their vomit, because they are made new.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly, so to put this in the context of the bible;
These people like us all were against God. Then through faith in the Lord and repentance of their sins they are now part of the Lord's sheep. They then return to giving into willful sin of the world, and obeying the lust in their heart instead of obeying the Lord. They returned to their life of sin, instead of staying in the grace of God.

No.

a swine is always a swine, a dog is always a dog.

if they were not changed from the INSIDE by being made a new creature, they can ACT like a new creation, but they will always RETURN to being what they naturally are.

A child of God has a new nature, their old has passed away, they would not return to what is natural to them, because what WAS notural to them, is now unnatural. and foreign to them, because they are no longer the creatures they were, they were made new.

I was a dog. God saved me, and made me a new creature, now I can not act like a dog, because they is no longer my nature. I am no longer a dog.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No.

a swine is always a swine, a dog is always a dog.

if they were not changed from the INSIDE by being made a new creature, they can ACT like a new creation, but they will always RETURN to being what they naturally are.

A child of God has a new nature, their old has passed away, they would not return to what is natural to them, because what WAS notural to them, is now unnatural. and foreign to them, because they are no longer the creatures they were, they were made new.

I was a dog. God saved me, and made me a new creature, now I can not act like a dog, because they is no longer my nature. I am no longer a dog.

Then you deny what the scripture says, because it clearly says they escaped the defilement's of the world through Jesus Christ. Then only way to escape is to be forgiven of your sins.

As for the sower and the seed, one group He clearly says that they abide in Him for awhile but through a personal trial or tribulation in their life they fall away and turn back to the world and away from Him. To many people want to make the Holy Spirit that is now in them as a controller. Nowhere in the bible does it say He controls us, it says He is our helper and our guide. We do not become like puppets on a string.
Even Paul said that his fleshly body still has its lusts which war against his new spiritual mind. Meaning that one can still give into their lusts, instead of falling the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The scriptures concur this with all the warnings about returning to willful sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then you deny what the scripture says, because it clearly says they escaped the defilement's of the world through Jesus Christ. Then only way to escape is to be forgiven of your sins.

Not true, they escaped the defilement of the world by it being in the world. but in the body. A non believer who is in the body and around them escape the worlds influence, because they are not around it. You should understand this.

As for the sower and the seed, one group He clearly says that they abide in Him for awhile but through a personal trial or tribulation in their life they fall away and turn back to the world and away from Him.

of course, where is their faith? They are with him (the body) as long as things are good, then when tribulation comes, they prove their faith was not in God. for if their faith was in God, they would have done the work That James speaks of. and not be taken out. they would have done the work which proves their faith was real and not just merely belief.

To many people want to make the Holy Spirit that is now in them as a controller. Nowhere in the bible does it say He controls us, it says He is our helper and our guide. We do not become like puppets on a string.
Even Paul said that his fleshly body still has its lusts which war against his new spiritual mind. Meaning that one can still give into their lusts, instead of falling the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The scriptures concur this with all the warnings about returning to willful sin.

Who says he is a controller? No one is claiming this. He is a chasten-er, and teacher. who can withstand the chastening of God? You act as if someone can be chastened by God and continue to ignore this. The only thing I can guess is because you have never endured chastening from God. if you did, you would never believe as you do.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Not true, they escaped the defilement of the world by it being in the world. but in the body. A non believer who is in the body and around them escape the worlds influence, because they are not around it. You should understand this.




of course, where is their faith? They are with him (the body) as long as things are good, then when tribulation comes, they prove their faith was not in God. for if their faith was in God, they would have done the work That James speaks of. and not be taken out. they would have done the work which proves their faith was real and not just merely belief.



Who says he is a controller? No one is claiming this. He is a chasten-er, and teacher. who can withstand the chastening of God? You act as if someone can be chastened by God and continue to ignore this. The only thing I can guess is because you have never endured chastening from God. if you did, you would never believe as you do.

I do understand, but it is you that is still missing the point.
The defilement's of the world is sin, the only way to escape from sin is through Jesus Christ.

While you are still give into your fleshly desires, you are part of the defilement's of the world. The only way not to be a part of the defilement's of the world is to be in a spiritual mindset. That spiritual change is only done through repentance and having faith in Jesus as your Lord and Savior.


Wrong, I have been chastened by God and felt the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
But yes one can can refuse to listen to that conviction and chastening and continue to go the way of willful sin. They do not care about the consequences of their actions. Look at how many repeat offenders, that no matter how much worse the punishment becomes each time they commit a crime, continue to go out and do it again.
First time they get probation, second time they get 3 years in prison, third time they get 10 years, fourth time they get 20 years, get out and do again.

This then applies to a believers life. They continue down a dangerous road believing they can do what ever they want, and the Lord our God will only chasten them and punish them down here on earth but will continue to be saved. They use 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 for this because it says what they have done will be tested by fire and burned up, but they will still be saved. This however is misused for their right to keep sinning philosophy, that is also used in some OSAS churches.

I don't ignore scriptures, and they say that a believer can and some will fall back to willful sin which does not lead to salvation. They say that believers will fall away do to trials, tribulations, to false teaching, and deception.