islam and the pope

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S

sealabeag

Guest
#23
Hizikyah I was responding to Straightshot and saying that I am "born again" and also a loyal Catholic. :)
P.S That doesn't mean I'm looking for an argument. :p
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#24
Hizikyah I was responding to Straightshot and saying that I am "born again" and also a loyal Catholic. :)
I know. I was asking that because to be Catholic one would accept the dictates of the Pope as administered by the Universal Church and thus; is the Pope your father and Mary is your mediator?
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#25
Today's Popes are pushers of ecumenicism; the "we all worship the same God" theme

This view is false for many reasons and particularly when it is applied to Isalm

There is no mixing of true bibical Christianity and Koranic Islam

Witnessing to a Muslim with the facts is one thing, but appeasement never works .... one must tell what the Muslim needs to hear, not what they want to hear

The current Pope's "church" is dwindling in numbers ..... Islam on the other hand is growing rapidly

So his adventure is most likely a folly, Catholics and Muslims simply do not mix .... never have, and will not ....oil and water

I doubt that he will make much gain other than attraction by the news media .... let's watch and see
There will be an alliance between radical Islam and the apostate pope (False Prophet) from the Vatican. We are just witnessing another prophesy in the making. Radical Islam will basically be the "enforcers" for the unholy trinity.
 
Nov 3, 2014
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#26
Correct above about Mary

Mary is one of the dead in Christ, unless she abrogated, and she is waiting for the Lord to call for His true ecclesia which is still pending

All of the RCC tradition about her was made up and there is no biblical support for this ruse
 
Nov 3, 2014
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#27
"There will be an alliance between radical Islam and the apostate pope (False Prophet) from the Vatican. We are just witnessing another prophesy in the making. Radical Islam will basically be the "enforcers" for the unholy trinity"


I would have to say no ... both have no mix .... like oil and water

Satan's beast by Islam will hunt down and destroy the other [even if not true Christians]

This has already begun in the Middle East today

The idea that the pope and his RCC are beast oriented is bogus
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#28
"There will be an alliance between radical Islam and the apostate pope (False Prophet) from the Vatican. We are just witnessing another prophesy in the making. Radical Islam will basically be the "enforcers" for the unholy trinity"


I would have to say no ... both have no mix .... like oil and water

Satan's beast by Islam will hunt down and destroy the other [even if not true Christians]

This has already begun in the Middle East today

The idea that the pope and his RCC are beast oriented is bogus
You may want to read up on Revelation because the False Prophet will likely be a defector from the RCC. He will slit the RCC and basically created a World Church that will eventually worship the Antichrist. It's all there in the Book of Revelation for you. Sorry, it is a reality in black & white. I find it hard to believe that you missed the point.
 
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Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,048
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#29
I consider a Muslim a sinner in need of a savior. Muslims consider me an infidel in need of death. What more can we say?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
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#30
"There will be an alliance between radical Islam and the apostate pope (False Prophet) from the Vatican. We are just witnessing another prophesy in the making. Radical Islam will basically be the "enforcers" for the unholy trinity"


I would have to say no ... both have no mix .... like oil and water

Satan's beast by Islam will hunt down and destroy the other [even if not true Christians]

This has already begun in the Middle East today

The idea that the pope and his RCC are beast oriented is bogus
You may read Avro Manhattan Book, three best seller author, was Catholic himself and expert in Catholic.

Catholic and muslim work together in yugoslavia during holocaust.

[SIZE=+3]The Role of the Catholic Church in Yugoslavia's Holocaust
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[SIZE=+3]Seán Mac Mathúna[/SIZE][TABLE="width: 100%"]
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[TD="width: 18%, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]VATICAN BANK CLAIMS:
Restitution & justice for concentration camp survivors of Serb, Jewish, and Ukrainian background and their relatives
What are the charges against Archbishop Stepinac?
A vow of silence: Did gold stolen by Croatian fascists reach the Vatican?
What Is The Vatican Hiding? The Vatican's Complicity in Genocide in Fascist Croatia: The Suppressed Chapter of Holocaust History. by Barry Lituchy
The Real Genocide in Yugoslavia: "Independent" Croatia of 1941 Revisited by Srdja Trifkovic
Working for the Nazis: The Mufti of Jerusalem
[h=4]Federal Republic of Yugoslavia[/h][h=4]Government of the Republic of Croatia[/h][h=4]Republic of Slovenia[/h][h=4]Government of the Republic of Macedonia[/h]Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina - Administration[/TD]
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[h=4]The Nazi collaborator Archbishop Stepinac (right) and the Vatican representative to fascist Croatia, Abbot Marcone (left). Croatia has recently renamed a village in Krajina after Stepinac. Marcone was Pavelic's confessor and Stepinac was convicted of war crimes after the war. Several members of his clergy were involved in the genocide at Jasenovac - notably the Franciscan priest, Pater Miroslav Filipovic, who was one of the commandants of the camp.[/h]​
During the Second World War in Yugoslavia, Catholic priests and Muslim clerics were willing accomplices in the genocide of the nations Serbian, Jewish and Roma population. From 1941 until 1945, the Nazi-installed regime of Ante Pavelic in Croatia carried out some of the most horrific crimes of the Holocaust (known as the Porajmos by the Roma), killing over 800,000 Yugoslav citizens - 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Roma. In these crimes, the Croatian Ustasha and Muslim fundamentalists were openly supported by the Vatican, the Archbishop of Zagreb Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac (1898-1960), and the Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini. Many of the victims of the Pavelic regime in Croatia were killed in the war's third largest death camp - Jasenovac, where over 200,000 people - mainly Orthodox Serbs met their deaths. Some 240,000 were "rebaptized" into the Catholic faith by fundamentalist Clerics in "the Catholic Kingdom of Croatia" as part of the policy to "kill a third, deport a third, convert a third" of Yugoslavia's Serbs, Jews and Roma in wartime Bosnia and Croatia (The Yugoslav Auschwitz and the Vatican, Vladimar Dedijer, Anriman-Verlag, Freiburg, Germany, 1988).
On April 6th 1941, Nazi Germany invaded Yugoslavia. By April 10th, Croatian fascists led by Ante Pavelic were allowed by Hitler and his ally Mussolini to set up a "independent" puppet state of Croatia. Hitler granted "Aryan" status to Croatia as his fascist allies carved up Yugoslavia. Pavelic had been awaiting these developments whilst under the auspices of Mussolini in Italy who had granted them the use of remote training camps on a Aeolian island and access to a propaganda station Radio Bari for broadcasts across the Adriatic. As soon as the new fascist state of Croatia was born, and campaign of cold-blooded terror began, as noted by John Cornwell in his book Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII(Viking, London, UK, 1999):
"(It was) an act of 'ethnic cleansing' before that hideous term came into vogue, it was an attempt to create a 'pure' Catholic Croatia by enforced conversions, deportations, and mass exterminations. So dreadful were the acts of torture and murder that even hardened German troops registered their horror. Even by comparison with the recent bloodshed in Yugoslavia at the time of writing, Pavelic's onslaught against the Orthodox Serbs remains one of the most appalling civilian massacres known to history" (p 249)
Furthermore, as Cornwell notes, Pius XII had not only "warmly endorsed" Croat nationalism, he had, before the war in November 1939, described the Croats in a speech as an "the outpost of Christianity" of whom "the hope of a better future seems to be smiling on you". Pavelic and Pope Puis XII "frequently exchanged cordial telegrams" according to Dedijer, one on New Year's Day 1943, saw the Pope give his blessing to Pavelic:
Everything that you have expressed so warmly in your name and in the name of the Croatian Catholics we return gracefully and give you and the whole Croatian people our apostolic blessing (Dedijer, p 115).
On April 25th 1941, following his seizure of power, Pavelic decreed that all publications, private and public, of the Cyrillic script was banned. In May 1941, anti-Semitic legislation was passed, defining Jews in racist terms, preventing them from marrying "Aryans". One month later all Serb Orthodox primary and preschools were closed. As soon as Pavelic had taken power, the Catholic Church in Croatia began compelling Orthodox Serbs to convert to the Catholic religion. But this was, as pointed out by Cornwell, a highly-selective policy: the fascists had no intention of allowing Orthodox priests or members of the Serb intelligentsia into the religion - they were to be exterminated along with their families. However, for those Serbs who were forced to convert, there was no immunity or protection from the Catholic church when the "crazed bloodletting" of the Ustashe began, as indicated by the speech made by the Croatian Nazi Mile Budak, who was a Minister in the Ustasha regime in Gospic, Bosnia during July 1941:
We will kill one part of the Serbs, the other part we will resettle, and the remaining ones we will convert to the Catholic faith, and thus make Croats of them (Dedijer, p 130).
Budak was talking about something that had already started: In an example of savage butchery carried out in the village of Glina on May 14th 1941, hundreds of Serbs were brought to a church to attend an obligatory service of thanksgiving for the fascist state of Croatia. Once the Serbs were inside, the Ustashe entered the Church armed only with axes and knives. They asked all present to produce their certificates of conversion to Catholicism - but only two had the required documents, and they were released. The doors of the church were locked and the rest slaughtered.
Like with the Jews, who had to wear the Star of David in public, the Serbs were forced to wear a blue band with the letter "P" (i.e., Orthodox) on their sleeve. The Nazi regime decreed that the Roma were to be "treated as Jews" and they were forced to wear yellow armbands. (A History of the Gypsies of Eastern Europe and Russia, David M. Crowe, St. Martin's Griffin, New York, USA, 1994).
[h=3]Stepinac blesses the puppet Nazi regime in Croatia[/h]When the Nazi's installed the puppet Ustashi regime in May 1941, Stepinac immediately offered his congratulations to Pavelic, and held a banquet to celebrate the founding of the new nation. After the opening of the Ustasha Parliament, Pavelic attended Zagreb cathedral, where Stepinac offered special prayers for Pavelic and ordered a solemn "Te Deum" to be sung in thanks to God for the establishment of the new regime. In May 1941, Stepinac also arranged to have Pavelic received personally by Pope Pius XII in Rome in the Vatican, where on the same occasion, he signed a treaty with Mussolini. Once Pavelic was in power, Stepinac issued a Pastoral Letter ordering the Croatian clergy to support the new Ustasha State. Stepinac alter recorded in his diary on 3rd August 1941 that "the Holy See (the Vatican) recognized de facto the independent State of Croatia". In the same year, Stepinac himself declared:
"God, who directs the destiny of nations and controls the hearts of Kings, has given us Ante Pavelic and moved the leader of a friendly and allied people, Adolf Hitler, to use his victorious troops to disperse our oppressors... Glory be to God, our gratitude to Adolf Hitler and loyalty to our Poglavnik, Ante Pavelic."
The involvement of Catholic clergy either in active participation or in blessing the Ustashi involvement in the Holocaust is well-documented. Stepinac himself headed the committee which was responsible for forcible "conversions" to Roman Catholicism under threat of death, and was also the Supreme Military Apostolic Vicar of the Ustashi Army, which effected the slaughter of those who failed to convert. Stepinac was known as the 'Father Confessor' to the Ustashi and continually bestowed the blessing of Catholic Church upon its members and actions.
Right from the very beginning, the Vatican knew what was happening in Croatia, and certainly known to Pius XII when he greeted Pavelic in Vatican - jus four days after the massacre at Glina. On this visit, Pavelic had a "devotional" audience with Pius XII, and the Vatican granted de-facto recognition of fascist Croatia as a "bastion against communism" - despite the fact that the Vatican still had diplomatic ties with Yugoslavia. Cornwell observes that right from the start it was known that Pavelic was a "totalitarian dictator", a "puppet of Hitler and Mussolini", that he had passed racist and anti-Semitic laws, and that he was "bent on enforced conversions from Orthodox to Catholic Christianity". Effectively, on behalf of Hitler and Mussolini, the Pope was "holding Pavelic's hand and bestowing his papal blessing" to the new puppet state of Croatia. Thus, it can argued, that the Catholic Cardinals in the Vatican were accomplices of the Holocaust in Yugoslavia and the extermination of the countries Jews, Serbs and Roma citizens. Indeed, many of members of Croatian Catholic clergy took a "leading part" in the Holocaust.
One leading member of the Catholic church in Croatia was the Nazi collaborator Archbishop Alojzije Stepinac. When he met Pavelic on April 16th 1941, he later noted that he had promised that he would "not show tolerance" to the Orthodox Serbian church - which gave Stepinac the impression that Pavelic "was a sincere Catholic". By June 1941, when German army units were reporting that the "Ustashe have gone raging mad" killing Serbs, Jews and Roma, Catholic priests, notably Franciscans took a leading part in the massacres, as pointed out by Cornwell:
"Priests, invariably Franciscans, took a leading part in the massacres. Many, went around routinely armed and performed their murderous acts with zeal. A Father Bozidar Bralow, known for the machine gun that was his constant companion, was accused of performing a dance around the bodies of 180 massacred Serbs at Alipasin-Most. Individual Franciscans killed, set fire to homes, sacked villages, and laid waste the Bosnian countryside at the head of Ustashe bands. In September of 1941, an Italian reporter wrote of a Franciscan he had witnessed south of Banja Luka urging on a band of Ustashe with his crucifix." (p 254).
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B

biscuit

Guest
#31
@ Jackson123

And history will repeat itself. The RCC will play a MAJOR ROLE in the Tribulation Hour even though it will be split into two factions.
 
P

phil112

Guest
#32
There are born agasin catholics, not all hold to the "infallibility" of the Pope, especially the current one.................
Not if they are still going to catholic church. It is a false religion.

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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#33
[video=youtube;KRSkECZqQ8s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRSkECZqQ8s&list=UUTB0IZ3M3CnB9ocxYhUeMxQ[/video]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Pieczenik
Pieczenik was deputy assistant secretary of state under Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance and James Baker.[SUP][3][/SUP] His expertise includes foreign policy, international crisis management and psychological warfare.[SUP][7][/SUP] He served the presidential administrations of Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush in the capacity of deputy assistant secretary.[SUP][8][/SUP]
In 1974, Pieczenik joined the U.S. State Department as a consultant to restructure its Office for the Prevention of Terrorism
 
Nov 3, 2014
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#34
My comments


Will Muslims and Catholics dance together .... they have on occasion and do ..... but only as a matter of convenience .... and for different objectives

There will be no such dancing in the tribulation that is coming

Satan's beast in the little horn will use the Muslim religion for subduing those who will not submit to his "god" who is Satan [Daniel 11:36-45; Revelation 13]

All including those of professing Christianity will face death at the head cutting during his rule .... these will be among primary targets [Revelation 20:4]
 
May 21, 2014
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#35
Real TRUTH!! Folks are asleep like zombies to busy arguing with one another about religion beliefs instead of preparing to defend their rights. Slavery has never ended and there are many forms of slavery. Rome became Roman Catholic Church because when they were casting lots(not soldiers) religions over JESUS garment(Faith/Belief System). Rome won the battle from the Orthodox Church who shall reign as G_D/Vicar. To many folks are blind to the TRUTH or will not accept TRUTH and they shall be destroy by lack of Truth/Knowledge.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,338
2,427
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#37
Real TRUTH!! Folks are asleep like zombies to busy arguing with one another about religion beliefs instead of preparing to defend their rights. Slavery has never ended and there are many forms of slavery. Rome became Roman Catholic Church because when they were casting lots(not soldiers) religions over JESUS garment(Faith/Belief System). Rome won the battle from the Orthodox Church who shall reign as G_D/Vicar. To many folks are blind to the TRUTH or will not accept TRUTH and they shall be destroy by lack of Truth/Knowledge.
I have absolutely no idea what any of that meant.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#38
@ Jackson123

And history will repeat itself. The RCC will play a MAJOR ROLE in the Tribulation Hour even though it will be split into two factions.
Yup. Tribulation is about one world government .

[h=1]Vatican calls for One World Government. Really.[/h]By ROD DREHEROctober 24, 2011, 12:47 PM

Here is news about a new economic policy statement from the Vatican. Lots of good stuff in the document about abuses in the neoliberal world economy, and the need for reform. But then there’s this, from Reuters:
The Vatican called for the establishment of “a supranational authority” with worldwide scope and “universal jurisdiction” to guide economic policies and decisions.
Such an authority should start with the United Nations as its reference point but later become independent and be endowed with the power to see to it that developed countries were not allowed to wield “excessive power over the weaker countries”.
Here is the full text of the document. It’s actually worse than that news report. A direct quote; emphases mine:
In the same spirit of Pacem in Terris, Benedict XVI himself expressed the need to create a world political authority. This seems obvious if we consider the fact that the agenda of questions to be dealt with globally is becoming ever longer. Think, for example, of peace and security; disarmament and arms control; promotion and protection of fundamental human rights; management of the economy and development policies; management of the migratory flows and food security, and protection of the environment. In all these areas, the growing interdependence between States and regions of the world becomes more and more obvious as well as the need for answers that are not just sectorial and isolated, but systematic and integrated, rich in solidarity and subsidiarity and geared to the universal common good.
As the Pope reminds us, if this road is not followed, “despite the great progress accomplished in various sectors, international law would risk being conditioned by the balance of power among the strongest nations.”
The purpose of the public authority, as John XXIII recalled in Pacem in Terris, is first and foremost to serve the common good. Therefore, it should be endowed with structures and adequate, effective mechanisms equal to its mission and the expectations placed in it. This is especially true in a globalized world which makes individuals and peoples increasingly interconnected and interdependent, but which also reveals the existence of monetary and financial markets of a predominantly speculative sort that are harmful for the real economy, especially of the weaker countries.
This is a complex and delicate process. A supranational Authority of this kind should have a realistic structure and be set up gradually. It should be favourable to the existence of efficient and effective monetary and financial systems; that is, free and stable markets overseen by a suitable legal framework, well-functioning in support of sustainable development and social progress of all, and inspired by the values of charity and truth. It is a matter of an Authority with a global reach that cannot be imposed by force, coercion or violence, but should be the outcome of a free and shared agreement and a reflection of the permanent and historic needs of the world common good. It ought to arise from a process of progressive maturation of consciences and freedoms as well as the awareness of growing responsibilities. Consequently, reciprocal trust, autonomy and participation cannot be overlooked as if they were superfluous elements. The consent should involve an ever greater number of countries that adhere with conviction, through a sincere dialogue that values the minority opinions rather than marginalizing them. So the world Authority should consistently involve all peoples in a collaboration in which they are called to contribute, bringing to it the heritage of their virtues and their civilizations.
The establishment of a world political Authority should be preceded by a preliminary phase of consultation from which a legitimated institution will emerge that is in a position to be an effective guide and, at the same time, can allow each country to express and pursue its own particular good. The exercise of this Authority at the service of the good of each and every one will necessarily be super partes (impartial): that is, above any partial vision or particular good, in view of achieving the common good. Its decisions should not be the result of the more developed countries’ excessive power over the weaker countries. Instead, they should be made in the interest of all, not only to the advantage of some groups, whether they are formed by private lobbies or national governments.
More:
Globalization, despite some of its negative aspects, is unifying peoples more and prompting them to move towards a new “rule of law” on the supranational level, supported by a more intense and fruitful collaboration. With dynamics similar to those that put an end in the past to the “anarchical” struggle between rival clans and kingdoms with regard to the creation of national states, today humanity needs to be committed to the transition from a situation of archaic struggles between national entities, to a new model of a more cohesive, polyarchic international society that respects every people’s identity within the multifaceted riches of a single humanity. Such a passage, which is already timidly under way, would ensure the citizens of all countries – regardless of their size or power – peace and security, development, and free, stable and transparent markets.
World peace can be ours if we only submit to a one-world government that manages our lives and our finances. But who will lead this new international order to guarantee peace and prosperity? Who, oh who?
Lord have mercy. What was once only in the febrile prophetic imagination of Jack Chick and Hal Lindsey is now a press release from the Vatican. A friend (who is not Evangelical) writes:
This is going to FREAK the evangelicals out. But it makes me wonder what the heck is going on in the minds of these Vaticanites! Don’t they have a clue how the world will preceive this? One world authority? ? Really?
Count me with the Evangelicals. It freaks me out too, and will freak out many Orthodox Christians. I bet it has the same effect on not a few Catholics as well. Maybe Malachi Martin wasn’t such a conspiracy freak after all…
UPDATE: OK, let me take a second stab at this thing.
First, I don’t think there’s anything intentionally malicious about this document. It does not have magisterial authority, so it doesn’t set out the Church’s authoritative teaching on faith and morals. No Catholic is required to believe any of this.
Still, it is a deeply troubling document. Why? Because it attempts to ally religious authority to the creation of globally centralized political and economic power, with the idea that if only we rationalize our political and economic relationships, and put them under the authority of a wise Authority, we’ll all be better off. I can see how that would work in religious matters (hey, the Vatican is just that kind of authority), but in political and economic matters, it is a temptation to tyranny.
On a more practical level, it seems to me that they’re calling for the European Unionization of the planet at precisely the time when the EU is falling apart. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the EU designed to be precisely what the Vatican dreams of? I mean, it’s a federation of sovereign nations seeking to integrate its economic life for the common good, and for the sake of peace. But it hasn’t worked in part because the good intentions designed to respect even its weakest members works toward paralysis of the whole, and in part because the most economically responsible members (Germany) find themselves on the hook for the bad behavior of other members (e.g., Greece). If the EU is to be saved, Germany is going to have to hand over more of its economic sovereignty, and more of its money. Plus, it’s almost certainly true that any centralized fiscal authority absent centralized political authority cannot succeed. So, national political sovereignty will be further eroded for the sake of the supposed “common good” so lauded by the Vaticanistas.
Is this really what the world wants and needs replicated on a global scale? Are the American people, the Russian people, and the Chinese people (to name but three) really prepared to relinquish sovereignty for the Vatican’s vision of a global superstate? The question is risible. What is so troubling, at least to me, is that this vision is accepted as a good and noble thing for humanity by the men in the Vatican. The problems they point out with the current system are very real. But their proposed solution would be a nightmare.

 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#39
My comments


Will Muslims and Catholics dance together .... they have on occasion and do ..... but only as a matter of convenience .... and for different objectives

There will be no such dancing in the tribulation that is coming

Satan's beast in the little horn will use the Muslim religion for subduing those who will not submit to his "god" who is Satan [Daniel 11:36-45; Revelation 13]

All including those of professing Christianity will face death at the head cutting during his rule .... these will be among primary targets [Revelation 20:4]
I am not an expert of end time, but evaluate what apostle John said look like not a muslim.

1. Antichrist have been appeared in apostle John time. Muslim appeared 600 years after apostle John. And I understand in the last 3.5 years not only appeared but also rule the world/one world government.

2. They went out from us/christian but not one of us. Catholic is start from christian, but they make modification by worship Mary and saint, that why not one of us.

Muslim not start from christian at all.

I think these 2 attribute not match Islam.

1 John 2
18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists (1)have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19 (2)They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
 
Nov 3, 2014
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#40
You must read the Bible prophets for the correct rendering

They all identify Israel's virulent enemies round about in the Middle East during the coming tribulation period at the end of this present age

These surrounding populations are the Muslims of the region today

Once you get this, then rethink your view