Undeniable Evidence That A.) There is a God, and B.) Jesus is God.

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Dec 16, 2012
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#1
Prophecy

God is by definition, supernatural. That is to say, he is beyond nature. What is nature? Nature is time, space and matter. Therefore God by definition is beyond time, space and matter.

The question you may be asking is; ‘How can you prove that there is a God?’

1.) If the bible is able to predict extremely complex events over and over again, to a degree of 100% accuracy, thousands of years before they occur, the author must be beyond the boundaries of time itself.
2.) Soon, I will show how the bible has demonstrated its ability to predict extremely complex events thousands of years in advance, over and over again.
3.) If I am able to prove this, it demonstrates that the author of the bible is beyond the boundaries of time itself, and is therefore, by definition – supernatural.

Prophecy Explained

The bible is a collection of 66 books, penned by approximately 40 authors, over a period of between 1500-2000 years. The claim of the bible is that all scripture is God breathed. That is to say, inspired by the Holy Spirit of God.
In order to prove that the bible predicts extremely complex events before they occur, we first have to prove that the book containing the prophecy was written before the events actually happened.

You may have heard of a man called ‘Alexander the Great’? He was undefeated in battle and is considered one of the most successful commanders of all time. After his death in 323 BC his kingdom was divided. A Macedonian General of his, called ‘Ptolemy’ received Egypt, and after his death he passed the kingdom on to his son Ptolemy II Philadelphus.
You might be asking; ‘what does this have to do with proving God?’ Watch closely.

Ptolemy II Philadelphus sponsored the translation of the Hebrew Old Testament into the Greek language. The Hebrew Old Testament, originally called the Tanakh, consists of books ranging from Genesis to Malachi. The translation into Greek was called the Septuagint. This translation occurred in the 3rd century BC, King Ptolemy gathered 72 Elders. He placed them in 72 chambers, each of them in a separate chamber, without revealing to them why they were summoned. He entered each one's room and asked them to translate the Tanakh into Greek.

Citations and manuscripts of the Septuagint translation of the bible are found in the 2nd century BC.

So what does this have to do with anything?

The Tanakh foretells a coming savior of the world of whom it gives many titles. Some of these are the ‘Messiah’, the ‘Son of God’, the ‘Son of man’ or the ‘Anointed One’.

The claim of the New Testament is that Jesus is this Messiah. The Septuagint translation of the Tanakh undeniably proves that these texts were written at least 200 years before Jesus was born.

If these texts that are contained in the Septuagint translation of the Tanakh, detail in advance extremely complex situations and events concerning the life of Jesus, to a degree that is from a human perspective impossible, the author must be beyond the boundaries of time itself.

Go Deeper

We have now established that the entire Tanakh was translated from Hebrew into Greek before 200 BC. Among the books in the Tanakh is the book of Daniel. In the year 597BC, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. Daniel was taken from Jerusalem to Babylon, and later Jerusalem was entirely destroyed.


In the book of Daniel, Daniel writes that an Angel came to him. This Angel said; “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death.”

So what does that mean?

In the English language – the word ‘decade’ refers to a period of Ten Years. The word used for week in Hebrew is שָׁבוּעַ, which in English means heptad, or a period of 7 years.

If someone approaches you and said; “in 8 decades time, I predict that the soil in my garden will be infertile.” We immediately understand that 8 decades is 80 years. In the same way this angel says that from between one event, and another event there will be, 7 heptads, and 62 heptads. The normal Jew understood this to be 69 heptads, which is 483 years. The biblical year is exactly 360 days, which equates to 173880 (69 * 360) days.

So an Angel appears to Daniel and essentially says; “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the Messiah, the Son of God, the ruler, comes, there will 173880 days. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. After the 173880 days, Messiah will be put to death.”

Remember that when this was written, Jerusalem was no longer a city, it had been destroyed.

Looking at secular history, we need to find the date when the command was given to restore and build Jerusalem, specifically with streets and a trench, and in troublesome times. From that date we can count 173880 days, and find the date of the supposed ‘Anointed One’. When did this event occur? King Artaxerxes Longimanus gave this command on March 14, 445 BC. So what date is 173880 days after March 14 445 BC? April 6, 32 A.D.

Jesus he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, presenting himself as King on April 6, 32 A.D.

This is humanly impossible. But for a God outside the boundaries of time itself, it is possible.

Not only did Jesus fulfill this prophecy perfectly. He also fulfilled over 300 others. As we have just demonstrated, all of these 300 prophecies were translated at least 200 years before Jesus was even born.

So what are some of these prophecies?

The prophet Zechariah writes concerning the coming Messiah; “Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion! Shout, Daughter Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and victorious, lowly and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”

Jesus fulfilled this on this same day.

If Jesus was merely a man, he could have no control over the place in which he was born.

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”
Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

The prophet Hosea explains that the coming Son of God would come out of Egypt, saying; “When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.” When Jesus was a child he travelled to Egypt.

Isaiah prophesies of the coming Son of God; “In that day the deaf will hear the words of the scroll and out of gloom and darkness the eyes of the blind will see”. Jesus supernaturally opened the ears of the deaf, and opened the eyes of the blind.

Isaiah writes; “This is what the LORD says-- the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel-- to him who was despised and abhorred by the nation”.

Jesus was despised and abhorred by the nation.

The Psalmist writes; “The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone”. Jesus was rejected by the rulers of the day.

“I am a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my own mother's sons”. Jesus was rejected by his own brothers before his death.

Zechariah prophesies that the Son of God will be betrayed for exactly 30 pieces of silver, and that those same pieces would then be thrown into the house of the LORD to the potter. “I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver.”

“When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. "I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood." "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility." So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners.”

These are just a few of over 300 prophecies that Jesus fulfilled perfectly. The majority of these if Jesus were a mere man only, he could not have fulfilled. If he were a man only, he could not have had any control over where he was born, when he was born, the nature by which he was betrayed, how he was buried etc.

Jesus undeniably, is the Son of God, the eternal creator of all that has been made.

When Jesus was on the earth, a member of the Jewish ruling council called Nicodemus came to him at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again”.
“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. “

Repent; believe in Jesus, he is the only name given among men whereby we must be saved. There is no condemnation for those in Jesus. God loves you so much, and he isn’t willing that any perish, but that all come to repentance. He desires all men to be saved.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#3
Someone writes a story about something that will happen in the future.

In the future someone else writes a story saying those things happened.

Would you agree that there is a slight possibility that the person who wrote the later story might have read the earlier one?
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
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#4
Someone writes a story about something that will happen in the future.

In the future someone else writes a story saying those things happened.

Would you agree that there is a slight possibility that the person who wrote the later story might have read the earlier one?
Not that I don't have some issues with the OP, but would someone writing a story about events that they believed had been previously predicted somehow invalidate their claim? I mean, surely the fact that they wrote about predicted events doesn't disprove that the events really took place.

There were economists who predicted a financial crisis prior to 2008, then in 2009 there were other people writing about how those events had taken place. That doesn't invalidate the actual occurrence of the crises though.
 
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Sep 14, 2014
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#5
Not that I don't have some issues with the OP, but would someone writing a story about events that they believed had been previously predicted somehow invalidate their claim? I mean, surely the fact that they wrote about predicted events doesn't disprove that the events really took place.
No it doesn't disprove it.

But there is a possibility that the person who wrote the later story may have been influenced by the earlier story.

It certainly is a possibility.. And therefore doesn't make it 'undeniable evidence' as proposed by the OP.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#6
There were economists who predicted a financial crisis prior to 2008, then in 2009 there were other people writing about how those events had taken place. That doesn't invalidate the actual occurrence of the crises though.
In the original film The Omen, it prophesises that when Damien becomes an adult he will be a man of great power.

In The Omen 3 (written by someone else) he became an adult in a position of power... Just like the prophecy said.

That doesnt mean it actually happened though.
 
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Sep 30, 2014
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#8
You're going to have to do better than that, read the whole thing, consider every point and go into a few sentences or paragraph to illustrate your points.
I posted on the "OP of evidence ", I'm sorry you didn't like it.. As for fulfilled prophecies, people will believe what they want... Until a prophet literally walks up to someone and says " your house will be ruined in a earthquake in a hour, get your family out of town "; they listen, come back to see a house in shambles ... They then believe. Some need physical evidence " in their life ". I was a heavy doubter myself, until I seen something with my own eye that I figured to be impossible to happen. Gods not here to prove Himself, that's why there's faith, but there's plenty of good and bad outside that anyone can see everyday. There's deception and truth every where, it's up to the individual to have a mind of their own, and just believe what their seeing.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#9
I rather say that I have been healed and my mother in law has been healed of brain cancer. That I have seen marriages restored and families restored. Wheel chairs sold and catheters thrown away and drunks set free and drug addicts become normal. What does science have your father is a monkey that promotes drug addiction and murder and stealing because if my father is a monkey then what do I care, Rob steal and kill who cares we just die and that's it.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#10
So you or mother in law didn't have any treatment of any kind?

Shame this nasty devilish science made it possible for you to even write these comments for the world to see.

Its very disturbing that the only thing stopping you from robbing and murdering is a mythical man in the sky.

Personally I would rather spend my life with the people I love and doing the things I enjoy... And not in a jail cell.

We've all got our motives for wanting to get along.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
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#11
Its very disturbing that the only thing stopping you from robbing and murdering is a mythical man in the sky.

Personally I would rather spend my life with the people I love and doing the things I enjoy... And not in a jail cell.
Bashing to be bashing huh?
Please enlighten us "misguided" ones from the book of "nothingness" that you all read from!
For we are idiots to look out into this world and believe a Creator did this...... it is much more logical that we came from nothing, out of nothing but nothing started nothing and luck had nothing to do with nothing, and nothing is nothing?

What stops you from murdering and robbing? Eat, drink be merry my friend, ...no consequences right? You live by "morals" I'm guessing? Who gave you those set of morals....society?....and on and on and on and on and on, goes the debate between you guys and us.

Let me help you--..because the next part is inevitable -now you will come back with something like "see?, I like to get a rise out of you guys"..or "you are all so judgmental, damning everyone to hell" " Show me proof Christ existed!!" My guess is since your type is the type that dives so deep into proving certain humans existed--you also demanded the same answers from your school teachers when they taught you about Michelangelo, Galileo, or Socrates?

.......Or do you bash Muslims and Buddhists or any other form of religion that "seeks peace" No? Why just the special disgust for Christ?

But you won't get a rise out of the true ones....because this dance has been done too many times man. I made a special exception for you and your bashing of another Christian. You see, there's a big diff between the Atheists and the Christians---we search for peace and truth, you search for us -to bash us BECAUSE we search for peace and truth. You all hit Christian forums, to why? Preach about "nothingness"? Too funny.

No? This forum must interest you then, because you seek answers? Which is good.:D
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#12
No it doesn't disprove it.

But there is a possibility that the person who wrote the later story may have been influenced by the earlier story.


It certainly is a possibility.. And therefore doesn't make it 'undeniable evidence' as proposed by the OP.
It comes closer to certainty though when the persons (John, Matthew, Peter) writing the 2nd story were eyewitnesses of the fulfillment of the first stories (prophecies) and were willing to die as martyrs for their testimony. ..

1 John 1:1-3
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#13
They were eye witness because the story said so. That doesn't make it a certainty it happened.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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#14
Bashing to be bashing huh?
Please enlighten us "misguided" ones from the book of "nothingness" that you all read from!
For we are idiots to look out into this world and believe a Creator did this...... it is much more logical that we came from nothing, out of nothing but nothing started nothing and luck had nothing to do with nothing, and nothing is nothing?

What stops you from murdering and robbing? Eat, drink be merry my friend, ...no consequences right? You live by "morals" I'm guessing? Who gave you those set of morals....society?....and on and on and on and on and on, goes the debate between you guys and us.

Let me help you--..because the next part is inevitable -now you will come back with something like "see?, I like to get a rise out of you guys"..or "you are all so judgmental, damning everyone to hell" " Show me proof Christ existed!!" My guess is since your type is the type that dives so deep into proving certain humans existed--you also demanded the same answers from your school teachers when they taught you about Michelangelo, Galileo, or Socrates?

.......Or do you bash Muslims and Buddhists or any other form of religion that "seeks peace" No? Why just the special disgust for Christ?

But you won't get a rise out of the true ones....because this dance has been done too many times man. I made a special exception for you and your bashing of another Christian. You see, there's a big diff between the Atheists and the Christians---we search for peace and truth, you search for us -to bash us BECAUSE we search for peace and truth. You all hit Christian forums, to why? Preach about "nothingness"? Too funny.

No? This forum must interest you then, because you seek answers? Which is good.:D
If you read Kerrys post before mine you'd see why I said what i did. It wasn't a bashing, it was a response.

I discuss and debate against all religions.

I've never preached about 'Nothing', I don't read from a 'Book of nothingness' and ive never said we came from nothing.

Straw man? More like an army!

Considering I didn't say most of what you said I did.. I wonder if that post was even directed at me.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
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#15
[
]If you read Kerrys post before mine you'd see why I said what i did. It wasn't a bashing, it was a response.

I discuss and debate against all religions.

I've never preached about 'Nothing', I don't read from a 'Book of nothingness' and ive never said we came from nothing.

Straw man? More like an army!

Considering I didn't say most of what you said I did.. I wonder if that post was even directed at me.
[/QUOTE]


No it's not , sorry if you thought it was. My mistake. Wrong post.......:)
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#16
They were eye witness because the story said so. That doesn't make it a certainty it happened.
Risk your eternity on skepticism but with so many witnesses the burden is on the skeptic to debunk it. No one said it was certain but it is more probable and approaching certainty than the previous hypothetical.
 
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Sep 14, 2014
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#17
Risk your eternity on skepticism but with so many witnesses the burden is on the skeptic to debunk it. No one said it was certain but it is more probable and approaching certainty than the previous hypothetical.
The burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim. The bible claims these things happened therefore that's where the burden of proof lays.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#18
The burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim. The bible claims these things happened therefore that's where the burden of proof lays.

Well that sucks because all the original people who made the claims are dead. Now what? I KNOW God is real because of the work He's done in my life, because of my strait up biblical conversion and miraculous, and unexplainable change. I have plenty of living witnesses that can support that claim but what you are asking for is kind of like when a scientist says "so and so is millions and millions of years old", and a creationist says "how do you know? Were you there? Or is your "proof" the proven unreliable radiation testing methods? I can prove my claims, but not theirs (the writers of the bible). So if what you need is the writers of the bible to shoulder the burden of proof, then there is no reason for a debate from your POV as they are all dead now. Also remember you said “burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim”.