Christ's Commandments

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#21
All commandments are Christ's for He is the Word. Is this not the entire truth?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#22
Yup Jaume..............that's why we have the Holy Bible.......don't need a list prepared by some other human to check off "commandments..........." :)

THE HOLY BIBLE...................(works for me)
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
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#23
Continued From Post #2

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CC: 7-14

7) Rom 12:3 . . Be honest in your estimate of yourselves, measuring your
value by how much faith God has given you.

Christians of little faith have little value; while Christians of great faith have
great value; but should be careful not to let their great value go to their
heads; if you know what I mean.

8) Rom 12:6 . . If God has given you the ability to prophesy, speak out
when you have faith that God is speaking through you.

The koiné Greek word for "prophesy" in that verse is from propheteia (prof
ay-ti'-ah) which encompasses predictions. Predictors were common in the
early church; for example Agabus' predictions at Acts 11:27-28 and Acts
21:10-11. Hunches don't count as God speaking through you. You have to
really know it. Don't ask me how to really know it because I don't have the
gift.

9) Rom 12:7a . . If your gift is that of serving others, serve them well.

"serving well" implies serving conscientiously and whole-heartedly rather
than half-baked and/or hit and miss.

One of my biological brothers has been a construction foreman for decades
and one of his perpetual complaints is that he never knows from one day to
the next whether some of the men he hires on jobs will show up. In other
words: they aren't reliable-- he can't count on them. What I'm saying is: if
you're thinking about becoming helpful in some way, don't do it unless
you're willing to commit to the long haul because people need to know that
they can depend on you to stay the course.

10) Rom 12:7b . . If you are a teacher, do a good job of teaching.

I had a Sunday school teacher once who worked as a maintenance man in a
public swimming facility. One Saturday he had to work very late repairing
some equipment at the pool and had no time to prepare his lesson plan for
Sunday morning so he just threw something together. It stunk; and my wife
and I got nothing out of it. In contrast, I once knew a pastor who took all
week long to prepare his Sunday morning sermons; rather than just
Saturday night. Now there was a guy who knew what it means to "do a good
job of teaching".

11) Rom 12:8a . . If your gift is to encourage others, do it!

You know who really benefits from encouragement in a big way? Little kids.
Thoughtless grown-ups can break a growing child's fragile spirit by criticizing
them all the time and never once giving them an "atta boy" or a single vote
of confidence. A fitting word spoken at just the right moment can really beef
up somebody's resolve to meet life head on. If you're good at that sort of
thing, then watch for opportunities to do so.

12) Rom 12:8b . . If you have money, share it generously.

There are some people barely making ends meet who nevertheless make an
effort to include charities in their budgets, while others loaded with dough
are misers in that they only give what they have to and nothing more. The
"extra mile" is foreign to their concept of what it means to be generous.

13) Rom 12:8c . . If God has given you leadership ability, take the
responsibility seriously.

A natural aptitude for church management doesn't count. It has to be God
given; that is: a legitimate Spirit-endowed ability. (cf. Rom 12:3-8, 1Cor
12:4-11, 1Cor 12:27-30). There are far too many people sitting on church
boards merely because they're a success in business. Well; if your church is
a business; then maybe you should think about finding another one.

14) Rom 12:8d . . If you have a gift for showing kindness to others, do it
gladly.

That would probably correspond to incidents like the one depicted in the
parable of the man attacked by road agents in Luke 10:30-36. In that
instance, a passerby had the skills and the wherewithal to provide care for a
total stranger in need. Personally, I'm not much at First Aid and/or
emergency medical services. But what we're getting at here is that should
you find yourself in circumstances where you can be of genuine, effective
assistance; don't lend a hand grudging. It ought to make Christians happy to
be of assistance instead of getting irritated and grumpy about an unexpected
inconvenience.

==========================================
 

Chopper

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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#24
Very informative posts! This has turned out to be a good topic indeed!
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#25
So, have you ever read a deed? It is a covenant with provisions. When the owner of the property dies, do all the provision of that deed just go away? If you own some property, why don't you try that in a court of law? They will very quickly inform you that the death of the owner does not abrogate the provisions. Christ's death did not abrogate the provisions of the Old Covenant (the Law) in fact, He said this about the Law...
Well, we are talking about a Covenant made by God here and not mere humans. The parallel is just to help to illustrate that the Testament (i.e. the New Testament) did not go into force until the Testator died. Meaning, the New Testament began with Christ's death.

You also have to keep reading, too.

For Hebrews 10:1 says,
For the Law having a shadow of the good things to come, and NOT the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Verse 9 then clarifies that the Old Testament is taken away so that the second Testament (i.e. the New Testament) would be established:

"Then said he, Lo, come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second." (Hebrews 10:9).

The taking away of the first is in reference to the "first testament" spoken of in the previous chapter (See Hebrews 9:15, 18, 19); And the New Testament is referred to as a contrast to the "first testament" in verse 15 and is called the "New Testament." (Which would obviously be the second or second testament).

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Now perhaps you can explain to me why Christ's plain statements here are not really true?
When you read Matthew 5:18, you have to also read the verse that is right before it. Verse 17 makes reference to the "Law and the Prophets." This is what verse 18 is referring to when it uses the word "Law." In other words, the word "Law" refers to the Law AND the Prophets (i.e. the Old Testament writings). The Law was fulfilled with Christ's death. But there are still prophecies (Which is a part of what is called the Law) in the Old Testament that Christ needs to still fulfill. Luke 16:17 says the same thing. Look at verse 16 before it. The word "Law" in verse 17 is in reference to the words "Law and the Prophets" in verse 16.
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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#26
The taking away of the first is in reference to the "first testament" spoken of in the previous chapter (See Hebrews 9:15, 18, 19); And the New Testament is referred to as a contrast to the "first testament" in verse 15 and is called the "New Testament." (Which would obviously be the second or second testament).
Edit Correction:

For clarification, the bolded text should say,

"And the "New Testament" (Which is mentioned in Hebrews 9:15) is a contrast to the "first testament" (Which is also referenced in Hebrews 9:15)."​

In other words, this ties in with the point made later in Hebrews 10:9 about the "first" being taken away, so that the "second" could be established. Meaning the Old Testament was taken away so that the New Testament could be established.
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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#27
Have you ever wondered why the King James says in Colossians 2:17 says "but the body is of Christ" ?

Colossians 2:17 KJV
"Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Well, God's Word Translation helps to clarify this point as to why the holy days and sabbaths of the Old Testament are just shadows. For

Colossians 2:17 GWT says,
"These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body [that casts the shadow] belongs to Christ."

Meaning the Old Testament Laws and rituals were all just a shadow of Jesus Christ's body. For as Hebrews 10:1 says, the Law was just a shadow of things and it was not the very image of the things. For it is saying that those sacrifices of the Old could never make anything perfect. Only Jesus Christ's sacrifice makes an atonement for our sin.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#28
Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Yahshua says these are the greatest Commandments, NOT THE ONLY! If that werent enough He clearly states all the Law hang on these 2.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

All as in even the ones he didn't list...

Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#29
You either believe Hebrews 10:9 that is in reference to Hebrews 9:15 or you don't believe it.

The Old Testament was taken away (i.e. the first) and the second was established which was the New Testament (Hebrews 10:9). This means we are no longer under the Law. But under grace. Meaning we walk by faith in Jesus Christ and follow those Commands in the New Testament. Not so as to be saved. But because we are saved. Granted, a believer will not abide in horrible sins such as murder, theft, hate, lusting, drunkenness, and lying, etc. For Paul and John warn us about such sins and how we will not inherit the Kingdom of God if we do such things. But salvation is not in what you do. Salvation is the result of being born again and being regenerated by the Holy Spirit so that you won't want to sin against the Lord; In fact, the good works are done by God thru you (Philippians 2:13).
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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#31
Hey Jas ... Hope you have better luck here than at the last one.
There is no such thing as luck. Luck is a concept of "Chance" which is Evolutionism.
And any favor God gives to me in reaching others is not really me but it is all God talking to a person's heart. I am nothing. Christ is everything. I am just the messenger. So please kind to the messenger.
 

Chopper

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
402
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#32
Kinda hard to believe someone is still trying to say the commandments were done away with when it was shown all the 10 commandments and appointed times were re-established in the NT.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? By no means: yea, we establish the law.
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
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#33
Continued From Post #23

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15) Rom 12:9a . . Don't just pretend that you love others.

Webster's defines "pretense" as fiction, make-believe, and/or simulation.
Ironically, pretense is foundational to ordinary civility and common courtesy.
But when it comes to love; Christians should never put on a front. In other
words: don't lead someone on to believe you're fond of them when in reality
you aren't. That's not only dishonest; it's cruel.

16) Rom 12:9b . . Hate what is wrong.

Hating evil is second nature to God-fearing people.

†. Ps 97:10 . .You who love Yhvh: hate evil!

†. Job 1:1 . . In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This
man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.

†. Prv 8:13 . .The fear of The Lord is to hate evil. Pride and arrogance and
the evil way, and the perverted mouth, I hate.

†. Matt 5:6 . . Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after
righteousness

17) Rom 12:9c . . Stand on the side of the good.

Christian CEOs on the boards of multi-national corporations have my
sympathy. Good luck complying with item #17.

I recently watched a very interesting documentary on NetFlix that analyzed
corporations; and they found that corporations, as a personality, typically
exhibit all five of the psychopathic behaviors listed below.

• Callous unconcern for the feelings of others.

• Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.

• Reckless disregard for the safety of others.

• Deceit and dissembling; viz: repeated lying, suppressing information,
stretching the truth, and conning others for profit.

• Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors.

One of corporate America's more shameful management practices is the
exploitation of foreign poverty, cheap labor, defenseless employees, minimal
safety requirements, and hardly any environmental regulations in order to
keep costs down and the bottom lines of quarterly reports up. It's all about
profits with corporations; while the human suffering exploited to obtain them
is collateral damage, so to speak; and nowhere has that been more
prevalent than garment-industry sweat shops.

Another of corporations' rather annoying behavior is their lack of patriotism.
They have a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders which supersedes any
wish they may have to pay their fair share of the tax burden imposed on
their fellow citizens. Thus they contribute relatively little towards the Federal
Government's ability to pay its bills in comparison to regular people.

A popular corporate tax-saving dodge, which is perfectly legal, is the moving
of their corporate headquarters offshore to countries where tax rates on
profits are much lower than here in the USA; where they have a permanent
haven just so long as they don't bring those profits into the country; which is
really a shame because those profits could otherwise be invested here at
home to create more jobs for Americans and thus strengthen the economy.

18) Rom 12:10a . . Love each other with genuine affection

Real affection is easy to imitate, but not so easy to duplicate. Going through
the motions is just not the same as feeling the feelings.

19) Rom 12:10b . . Honor others over yourselves.

Most and alpha achievers would have trouble with that one. I mean. why be
a winner if not so everyone can kiss your derriere, turn green with envy,
admire your success, treat you like a celebrity, open doors for you, get out
of your way, and grant you bragging rights and accolades? The alpha
achiever's motto is: It's not enough to succeed: everyone else must fail.

==================================
 
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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,363
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#34
Well, we are talking about a Covenant made by God here and not mere humans. The parallel is just to help to illustrate that the Testament (i.e. the New Testament) did not go into force until the Testator died. Meaning, the New Testament began with Christ's death.

You also have to keep reading, too.

For Hebrews 10:1 says,
For the Law having a shadow of the good things to come, and NOT the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
OK, since you brought up Hebrews 10, let's read it in context and see what it is discussing...

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

What is being shadowed here is revealed in the very first verse. The subject is the animal sacrifices performed by the Aaronic Priesthood. And what about those sacrifices?

"can never...make the comers thereunto perfect."

So the subject is sacrifices. If the subject in a newspaper article was about crime in the Lower East Side of New York would you try to apply it to the Ebola outbreak in Monrovia? The subject is animal sacrifices not the Ten Commandments.

So let's read on...

Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

So reading up to verse 9, what is the author (I believe this to be Paul but YMMV) writing about? What is the subject matter?

Obviously animal sacrifices.

Now let's read verse 9 in context...

Verse 9 then clarifies that the Old Testament is taken away so that the second Testament (i.e. the New Testament) would be established:

"Then said he, Lo, come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second." (Hebrews 10:9).

The taking away of the first is in reference to the "first testament" spoken of in the previous chapter (See Hebrews 9:15, 18, 19); And the New Testament is referred to as a contrast to the "first testament" in verse 15 and is called the "New Testament." (Which would obviously be the second or second testament).
No, he is not jumping back to the previous chapter, although, if you really want to reference chapter 9, please read it...

Heb 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

Whoa, here we are again referencing the fact that animal sacrifices could not make whom? The High Priest, verse 7, perfect, nor was he the Sacrifice and High Priest that was to come. The High Priest was a type, a shadow of the coming of the true High Priest: Christ.

This passage is not speaking of the replacement of the Old Covenant. We do not reach that point until we read verses 15 on. Now, with some context in mind, let's read the remainder of chapter 9...

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Heb 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

And what we are reading here is that Christ became the payment for sin. Sin still is the transgression of the Law...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

And there is no sin without Law...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.


When you read Matthew 5:18, you have to also read the verse that is right before it. Verse 17 makes reference to the "Law and the Prophets." This is what verse 18 is referring to when it uses the word "Law." In other words, the word "Law" refers to the Law AND the Prophets (i.e. the Old Testament writings). The Law was fulfilled with Christ's death. But there are still prophecies (Which is a part of what is called the Law) in the Old Testament that Christ needs to still fulfill. Luke 16:17 says the same thing. Look at verse 16 before it. The word "Law" in verse 17 is in reference to the words "Law and the Prophets" in verse 16.
Uh, that is not what Matthew 5 says, that is what you wish it said. Don't tell us that it says one thing but really means something else, what it really says is just what it says...

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Maybe the NKJV helps here...

Mat 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Not a jot or tittle will pass from the Law until heaven and earth pass away. Now, I am not sure what parallel universe you live in but the one I live in still has heavens and an earth.

The problem of sin and the payment for sin is not solved by doing away with the Law. That is an affront to Christ who DIED to pay the penalty for transgressing the Law. If He came to do away with the Law, and He is the Lawgiver...

Jas 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

The simple solution would be to simply do away with the Law. He chose rather to pay the penalty for breaking the Law. If the Law is done away and you believe Rom 4:15 and 5:13, then there is no sin and you don't need a Savior, there is no sin to save you from.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#35
Technically, there is no such thing as jumping back to the previous chapter actually. We say this sometimes because these things exist within our Bibles today. However, chapter and verse numbers are not a part of the original text. I just showed you the context of what the surrounding text says, if you choose not to see it, then that is your choice. But my last post still stands.

First and Second is obviously in context to First Testament and the New Testament. For there is no other "first" mentioned on another topic in the surrounding text. The context is clear if you are open to seeing it, my friend.

Anyways, I ask that you pray over it and re-consider what the Bible plainly says.

In any event, peace be unto you.
And may God's love shine upon you.
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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#36
Yahshua says these are the greatest Commandments, NOT THE ONLY! If that werent enough He clearly states all the Law hang on these 2.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

All as in even the ones he didn't list...

Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah.

And try breaking the 4th Commandment and still be loving Yahweh.

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Mattithyah 19:17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. you shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your father and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:4, "He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
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#37
Uh, what OT Law says one regards all the days the same? I dunno. Maybe you can tell me.

In other words, I think you are just ignoring what Romans 14 plainly says. One man regards every day the same and some regard every day over another.

In fact, Colossians confirms this.

Colossians 2:16
"Let no man there fore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"
Hey mate,

I didn't say that what Paul says was Old Testament law, but what Jesus said.

I did a whole post on Romans 14 which includes Colossians 2.

In short however, It is mere assumption on your part that Romans 14 does away with the Sabbath. It does not specifically say that and you can not show that it does mean that by that text alone. (Romans 14).

SO rightly so you bring Colossians 2:16 in to the mix which is exactly what I would do because its still Paul speaking on a similar vain as He is in Romans 14.

However Colossians proves that Paul did not intend to say that the 7th day Sabbath was done away with. In fact the very next verse does so.

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Thus the things just mentioned by Paul were a shadow pointing to things that had not yet come. Eg Christ had not Yet come.

everything Paul mentions in verse 16 is connected to the sacrificial feasts of the Old Testament. Jesus being our true sacrifice does away with all of them. Those feast days had their own Sabbaths separate from the 7th day Sabbath written and spoken by God himself.

Plus if you examine the Commandant for the 7th Day you will soon see that it was designed to point back to creation.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The fact that God created the world has not changed. The Fact that Jesus died and resurrected does not change this fact either. In Fact it amplifies it because Jesus is the creator.

Paul clearly was not speaking of the 7th day Sabbath but rather to the problem of the Jewish converts trying to force the feasts etc on the Gentile converts.

blessings
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#38
Hey mate,

I didn't say that what Paul says was Old Testament law, but what Jesus said.

I did a whole post on Romans 14 which includes Colossians 2.

In short however, It is mere assumption on your part that Romans 14 does away with the Sabbath. It does not specifically say that and you can not show that it does mean that by that text alone. (Romans 14).

SO rightly so you bring Colossians 2:16 in to the mix which is exactly what I would do because its still Paul speaking on a similar vain as He is in Romans 14.

However Colossians proves that Paul did not intend to say that the 7th day Sabbath was done away with. In fact the very next verse does so.

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Thus the things just mentioned by Paul were a shadow pointing to things that had not yet come. Eg Christ had not Yet come.

everything Paul mentions in verse 16 is connected to the sacrificial feasts of the Old Testament. Jesus being our true sacrifice does away with all of them. Those feast days had their own Sabbaths separate from the 7th day Sabbath written and spoken by God himself.

Plus if you examine the Commandant for the 7th Day you will soon see that it was designed to point back to creation.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The fact that God created the world has not changed. The Fact that Jesus died and resurrected does not change this fact either. In Fact it amplifies it because Jesus is the creator.

Paul clearly was not speaking of the 7th day Sabbath but rather to the problem of the Jewish converts trying to force the feasts etc on the Gentile converts.

blessings
I already explained what the passages mean. If you want to see things in the Bible about going back to the Law, I can't stop you from doing that. It is your choice to see what you want to see. I don't believe the Scriptures teach that the Law of Moses is still in effect anymore. I believe the Scriptures teach we are under grace within the New Testament.

Please do not take this the wrong way, my friend, but I am not interested in debating in folks going back to the Law or in them trying to save themselves by works. Such things would be placing yourself under the Law and not under Grace. Pure and simple.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#39
I already explained what the passages mean. If you want to see things in the Bible about going back to the Law, I can't stop you from doing that. It is your choice to see what you want to see. I don't believe the Scriptures teach that the Law of Moses is still in effect anymore. I believe the Scriptures teach we are under grace within the New Testament.

Please do not take this the wrong way, my friend, but I am not interested in debating in folks going back to the Law or in them trying to save themselves by works. Such things would be placing yourself under the Law and not under Grace. Pure and simple.
Its not about going back to the law. Grace is not a new testament teaching only, it is all through the Old Testament.

Faith, Grace, love, all Old Testament teachings that were current and active during that time. Yes we have the greater revelation through Jesus than they did. but salvation has always from he foundation of the world been the same.

They had sacrificial feasts, offerings and Sabbaths and holy days which all were about the coming one.
We have Jesus thus no need for feasts etc.

They had the law on stone,
We have the same law in the flesh of Jesus.

They had a high priest,
We have Jesus our High priest.

They had a a temple,
we look to the temple in heaven where Jesus is.

what is my point.

There is still a real heavenly temple.
There is still a real high priest.
There is still a real sacrifice.

Now all these things existed in the Old to show the way of salvation. but If you take away the 10 commandments then none of them have any reason to exist.

So why then do we still have them in heaven?
why is Jesus still a high Priest?
Why is there a temple in heaven which the earthly one was a symbol?
Why did Jesus sacrifice himself?

Why did John see the ark of the covenant in heaven which sole purpose was to hold the 10 commandments?

If the law/10 commandments is done away with then why is it in the heavenly temple?

What is it about the 10 commandments that are so offensive?

If it is not wrong to acknowledge God as creator and to have a day set aside to worship Him. then why is it wrong to do so on the day God stipulated? Does obedience to God = legalism?

Tell me what it is about a day that God blessed before sin entered the world, a day that he set aside by his own divine will before a savior was needed. what is it about this day that Jesus had to change? what is it about this day that Jesus had to die for?

Jesus died for our sins, sin is breaking the law. Jesus died for those who were not keeping it. So why now that he has died would he want us to not keep it again?

you see its not about works, they will never save. Its about the fruit of a regenerated heart, If you love me you will keep my commandments said Jesus. Its not about what we can do for God, its about what God has and can do for us.

I don't expect answers to these oodles of questions. Just some thoughts to ponder.

blessings friend, much love and Grace to you from Our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#40
I am aware that Grace is in the Old Testament. All men were justified by faith in the Messiah. Yes, the OT saint did not know the name of Jesus, but they were justified by faith in the Messiah or the Lord. The OT saint also had the indwelling of the Spirit, too. The OT saint also was regenerated spiritually, as well. That is the key to all this here. Regeneration. Not in the physical might of your arm or flesh. God is salvation. Salvation is not you and what you do. God has always changed his saints spiritually thru out all time so as to obey His Laws (See Ezekiel 36:26-27).

So I do not have a problem with God's Laws. They are always good. You can even obey the Saturday Sabbath. But it is no longer binding within the New Covenant or New Testament, though; And I am not against God's Commands. There are plenty of Commands for us to obey in the New Testament. There are 1,050 + Commands in the New Testament alone. But we are not justified by the Law. Meaning we are not saved in keeping OT Law. For do you keep everything prescribed in OT Law? For James says if you break one Law, you have broken them all. So if this is the case, then what can one do? The answer is Jesus Christ. For the Law was only a school master that brings us unto Christ.