Christmas

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Dec 16, 2012
1,483
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#1
Pagan Origins

It's interesting to realise that December 25th (Christmas) in the Roman Empire and prior - was the day people celebrated the birthdays for these idols / demons / pagan gods:



Apollo, Attis, Bacchus, Dionysus, Helios, Hercules, Horus, Jupiter, Mithras, Perseus, Sol Invictus and Tammuz.

If you investigate the ancient religions - you find that almost all of them have origins with Nimrod. The bible doesn't say much about him - but mentions him (Genesis 10:8, 1 Chronicles 1:10, Micah 5:2).



Nimrod's birthday was also celebrated on December 25th by many. According to the ancient Babylonians, Semiramis (who was believed to be both Nimrods mother and wife - also known as Astarte, Asherah, Ashtoreth, Isis, Ishtar and Easter) made the claim that after Nimrod died, an evergreen tree sprang up overnight from a dead tree stump. Semiramis claimed that Nimrod visited the evergreen tree and left gifts each year on the anniversary of his birth (December 25th). These beliefs were in circulation well before Jesus entered the scene of human history. Does this sound familiar?



Jeremiah - one of Gods prophets, who lived between 600-500 BC wrote of these pagan rituals saying (Jeremiah 10);


Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them, for the customs of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move.


For the first 300 years of Church history - Christmas didn't exist. No one celebrated Jesus birth. However, many believers (though not under obligation) did celebrate the festival / feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles).

It's almost unanimously agreed among scholars that Jesus was not born on December 25th. The bible describes how the sheep were in the fields (Luke 2) at the time of Jesus birth. This didn't happen in the middle of winter when it snows. Some have tried to calculate Jesus birth based on various details in scripture, alongside historical information and speculate that it's likely he was born during the feast of Tabernacles (which makes sense).

Speculating Jesus Birth Date


Elizabeth (John the Baptist's mother) was six months pregnant when Jesus was conceived (Luke:1:24-26). John's father - Zacharias was a priest serving in the division of Abijah in Jerusalem's temple (Luke:1:5). Based on the priestly division cycles - Zacharias service would have been around mid June in that year. After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (Luke:1:23-24). If John's conception took place towards the end of June, then we add nine months and it brings us to the end of March. If we add six months it brings us to the end of September.

We don't know for certain when Jesus was born - but we can arrive at an approximate time period. What we do know, is that it wasn't December 25th!


Charles Spurgeon's Thoughts On Christmas

Charles Spurgeon, the famous preacher from the 1800's said this about the observance of Christmas:


"We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and, secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Saviour; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. Superstition has fixed most positively the day of our Saviour's birth, although there is no possibility of discovering when it occurred. Fabricius gives a catalog of 136 different learned opinions upon the matter; and various divines invent weighty arguments for advocating a date in every month in the year. It was not till the middle of the third century that any part of the church celebrated the nativity of our Lord; and it was not till very long after the Western church had set the example, that the Eastern adopted it. Because the day is not known, therefore superstition has fixed it; while, since the day of the death of our Saviour might be determined with much certainty, therefore superstition shifts the date of its observance every year. Where is the method in the madness of the superstitious? Probably the fact is that the holy days were arranged to fit in with heathen festivals. We venture to assert, that if there be any day in the year, of which we may be pretty sure that it was not the day on which the Savior was born, it is the twenty-fifth of December. Nevertheless since, the current of men's thoughts is led this way just now, and I see no evil in the current itself, I shall launch the bark of our discourse upon that stream, and make use of the fact, which I shall neither justify nor condemn, by endeavouring to lead your thoughts in the same direction. Since it is lawful, and even laudable, to meditate upon the incarnation of the Lord upon any day in the year, it cannot be in the power of other men's superstitions to render such a meditation improper for to-day. Regarding not the day, let us, nevertheless, give God thanks for the gift of his dear son."​


Christ Mass

The Roman Catholic Mass (which is where the mass in Christmas comes from) itself is evil in the sense that it adds to the completed work of Christ on the cross! Mediation is made by a human priest between men and God, in contradiction to the clear teachings of the New Testament which tells us that there is one mediator between God and man the Lord Jesus Christ. Scripture teaches that the Spirit of Christ dwells in us when we are born again, and that we need no man to mediate between us and Christ. We can come boldly before the throne of grace through the power of Gods Holy Spirit in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus to find mercy and grace in our time of need! God can hear our prayers! We don't need a ritual to get right with God. Additionally, I'd like to point out that there are many ancient pagan and occult symbols that have been adopted and re-branded within the Catholic tradition and Church (which we won't speak about now) as well as the merging of false deities that were renamed to saints - which to this day are prayed too within the Church. There are many problems with Catholicism - we'll leave those for another day. This article is about Christmas.

Santa Claus



As adults we can overlook the serious problems of Santa because they don't necessarily effect us directly. But what about our Children? Children are taught that he is a real man, who knows when they are naughty and nice, he knows when they are sleeping and awake. Does this characteristic sound familiar? God alone enjoys omniscience. This is a unique characteristic of God. Santa in one night travels the globe, stops time, and delivers gifts. He carries with him eternal like characteristics. Children write letters to Santa and communicate with this person they believe will answer their requests!

For a child - they genuinely believe in him. This is IDOLATRY! Not only do parents lie to their children, but they set up an idol for them to in a sense worship. There is no real difference between the relationship Santa has to a child, and the Hindu gods have to their worshipers. God tells us not to lie, yet many feel that Christmas is a time they will be overlooked, alongside Easter with the Easter bunny, or the Tooth Fairy.

Jesus didn't hide from controversy, but rejoiced in the truth, which is why I am going to say this... Santa Claus is demonic!


Christian Response

The big question is - should we remember and celebrate Jesus birth on December 25th? Well firstly - it's clear that we are under no obligation to celebrate Jesus birth! Likewise - we are under no obligation not too! But what shouldn't we do? We shouldn't practice paganism. Just as God wouldn't like us to practice Yoga (a form of Hinduism), or wear pentagrams and occult symbols around our necks, or participate in demonic rituals - he doesn't want us to join in with the evergreen ritual associated with Nimrod and Semiramis, or lie to our Children about Santa.

I don't believe there is anything wrong with giving gifts to people, having a meal, and remembering Jesus birth. But as we do it - let's not give any special reverence to the day itself, or to the pagan elements practiced by those around us (Christmas tree, Santa etc.)
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#2
Christmas must be soon! I can tell because its another one of these "Christmas is pagan" threads, like we really need ANOTHER one.

[video=youtube;s0-EgjUhRqA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-EgjUhRqA[/video]
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
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#3
​You do realize there's like a million threads here on this subject? *sighs wearily*
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,313
16,301
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Tennessee
#4
We already covered this earlier today. And yesterday. And the day before that.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
216
63
#5
We already covered this earlier today. And yesterday. And the day before that.
One new thread for each of the 24 days leading up to Christmas tourist!
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
34
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#6
Com'on guys. Don't be mean. There's always room for another Christmas bashing thread.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
216
63
#7
Com'on guys. Don't be mean. There's always room for another Christmas bashing thread.
I couldn't help but laugh, sorry....and no bashing going on, I received the same type of "playful" comments on MY Christmas bashing thread. (on the first day of Christmas, I think it was?) I feel for her.
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
895
18
18
#8
Pagan Origins

It's interesting to realise that December 25th (Christmas) in the Roman Empire and prior - was the day people celebrated the birthdays for these idols / demons / pagan gods

Apollo, Attis, Bacchus, Dionysus, Helios, Hercules, Horus, Jupiter, Mithras, Perseus, Sol Invictus and Tammuz.
:
*sigh* Another one. There's a half dozen of these threads in the last day or two.

In short, no. Christmas was not the birthday for those gods. Sorry.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
34
48
#9
*sigh* Another one. There's a half dozen of these threads in the last day or two.

In short, no. Christmas was not the birthday for those gods. Sorry.
It's Laura's right to ruin the party and joy of others. Sorry.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,313
16,301
113
69
Tennessee
#10
Pagan Origins

It's interesting to realise that December 25th (Christmas) in the Roman Empire and prior - was the day people celebrated the birthdays for these idols / demons / pagan gods:


Apollo, Attis, Bacchus, Dionysus, Helios, Hercules, Horus, Jupiter, Mithras, Perseus, Sol Invictus and Tammuz.
December 25th is their birthday's too? What are the odds of that?
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
216
63
#11
tourist--
Might I suggest, with your pull around CC, that you start a "The Ultimate Christmas Bashing Bump Thread" ...and maybe the first 5-6 posts can be the cliche responses to those Christmas type threads? That way no one can start a new one, we bump it until Christmas is over, and it will save anyone (like me) the embarrassment of starting a new one
.......and everyone the embarrassment of wasting their time posting " oh no, not this thread again..."
 
V

VioletReigns

Guest
#12
tourist--
Might I suggest, with your pull around CC, that you start a "The Ultimate Christmas Bashing Bump Thread" ...and maybe the first 5-6 posts can be the cliche responses to those Christmas type threads? That way no one can start a new one, we bump it until Christmas is over, and it will save anyone (like me) the embarrassment of starting a new one
.......and everyone the embarrassment of wasting their time posting " oh no, not this thread again..."
YAY!! I like it. :D
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#13
​You do realize there's like a million threads here on this subject? *sighs wearily*
A million....that is in itself is a miracle......as I didn't even realize there was a million threads on this site HAHAHAHHA!
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#14
Laura_charlotte, good information, and as we can see it is up to the individual as to what is done with it. Scripture tells us some never accept truth. I've wondered if it's because of fear.
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#16
there's a little too much happiness in this thread. :)

you guys make me laugh...and i need it.
thanks.

ps--no disrespect, Laura!
you've as much right to post as anyone. ♥
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#17
Pagan Origins

It's interesting to realise that December 25th (Christmas) in the Roman Empire and prior - was the day people celebrated the birthdays for these idols / demons / pagan gods:



Apollo, Attis, Bacchus, Dionysus, Helios, Hercules, Horus, Jupiter, Mithras, Perseus, Sol Invictus and Tammuz.

If you investigate the ancient religions - you find that almost all of them have origins with Nimrod. The bible doesn't say much about him - but mentions him (Genesis 10:8, 1 Chronicles 1:10, Micah 5:2).



Nimrod's birthday was also celebrated on December 25th by many. According to the ancient Babylonians, Semiramis (who was believed to be both Nimrods mother and wife - also known as Astarte, Asherah, Ashtoreth, Isis, Ishtar and Easter) made the claim that after Nimrod died, an evergreen tree sprang up overnight from a dead tree stump. Semiramis claimed that Nimrod visited the evergreen tree and left gifts each year on the anniversary of his birth (December 25th). These beliefs were in circulation well before Jesus entered the scene of human history. Does this sound familiar?


You do realise "The Two Babylons" is a load of nonsense and poor scholarship, don't you? I mean, I disagree with much of the Catholic faith, but it's just an anti-Catholic propaganda piece tied together with superficial, tenuous and sometimes made-up similarities between gods and goddesses. It's true that Nimrod likely began organised pagan religion but Semiramis lived at a completely different time period to Nimrod. Also, the so-called facts about her being both Nimrod's wife and mother are interesting stories, nothing more. So the connection between Mother Mary and baby Jesus doesn't even exist.
 
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Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,739
707
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#18
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Our war is against certain spirits, not the people those spirits control.

Christmas is the one time the world over revels in a singular spirit: The Christmas Spirit (a.k.a. The Holiday Spirit or "Holiday Cheer") all for their own reasons. It can - and most times does - enrapture anyone who will allow it, what with the classic music, decorations, tales, commercials, costumes, gifts, etc.

I wonder though...how many believe The Christmas Spirit is The Holy Spirit...or whether it even matters; whether The Holy Spirit is even thought about at all during this time. I think that would be an interesting poll. I know when I used to celebrate Christmas (for Christ) I never thought about the Holy Spirit at all, but I reveled in The Holiday Spirit. Interestingly enough, The power of the Holiday Spirit doesn't last but a few months...then the world's back to being as selfish as it was before. Whereas The Holy Spirit has staying power.

Scripture says to test every spirit to see if it's of God because there are many counterfeit spirits that can feel awfully like the genuine article. Christ said his words are his spirit, but if one doesn't even need Christ's words (i.e. the words of scripture) inside of them to receive The Holiday Spirit year after year, we probably should count it as suspect and definitely weight the entire event against scripture.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,213
2,549
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#19
Oh another thread about how evil Christmas is, yay.....
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#20
Do we care what the Creator says?