Free will,devine nature,or choice.

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storms4me

Junior Member
Nov 22, 2014
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#1
Does anyone have constructive views on free will,I am certainly open to discussion? Please feel free to share your biblical views.
 
May 15, 2013
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#2
Does anyone have constructive views on free will,I am certainly open to discussion? Please feel free to share your biblical views.
Free-will is the freedom to choose or having your own desires. But a son has the same desires like his father.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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#3
free-will means you can do what you want when you want how you want. but, there is consequences for those decisions. that is the part people just ignore until it is often too late.
 
N

Nicee

Guest
#4
No one in the world has absolute free will. Only God has absolute free will.He can do anything without consequences or having to justify his actions. Ask Job. He knows alot about that.
 
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May 15, 2013
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#5
Here's some examples of free-will.

Philippians 1:22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know!

James 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

1 Peter 4:3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.
 

storms4me

Junior Member
Nov 22, 2014
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#6
Hmm, interesting views thank you. I find that free will is also for the believer in so far as to say, God's people have the choice each day to follow the will of the Father,or not. This will cause a rift in the intimacy we have with God if not fixed.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#7
Hmm, interesting views thank you. I find that free will is also for the believer in so far as to say, God's people have the choice each day to follow the will of the Father,or not. This will cause a rift in the intimacy we have with God if not fixed.
Free will especially applies to the believer. The unbeliever's will is twisted according to it's fallen nature, that is why the new nature is a must in order for there to be freedom.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#8
Does Man Have Free Will?

Free will is defined in a few different ways. Here is one of it's definitions.

Free will (Noun) - The ability to act at one's own discretion.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...sh/free%2Bwill

In fact, the origin of the word "will" is especially important to look at, too. It says this..

Will (Verb) - To wish, desire, want, to will, or to choose.

Online Etymology Dictionary

Now, how can you have the desire for anything or to choose differently if you did not have the free choice (i.e. free will) to choose or to not to choose in the first place?

Anyways, here is a list of the different types of Free Will that I hope you shall consider.

The Three different types of Free Will:

#1. Man's Limited Slave to Sin Type Free Will.
#2. Man's Limited Redemptive Type Free Will.
#3. God's Limited to Doing Only Good Type Free Will.


And the hypothetical Free Will that does not exist for any being within our universe.
Which is...

#1. Ultimate or Absolute Free Will.


A. Man's Limited Slave to Sin Free Will:
All non-believers or people who have not genuinely accepted Christ as their Savior are slaves to sin in some way. Now, this does not mean that unbelievers are not capable of making limited free will choices that are correct or good for their own well being (like choosing not to murder, steal, fornicate, or do drugs). However, on the other hand they are limited in their free will in the sense that they are slaves to sin and will have some type of sin within their life that separates them from God. They are also incapable of repentance unless God grants it to them based upon His Foreknowledge of their free will choice if they will genuinely choose Him or not.

B. Man's Limited Redemptive Type Free Will:
All true believers in Christ or those who genuinely accept Jesus as their Savior are set free from being a slave to sin. This gives the believer a higher level of free will than that of a non-believer who is incapable of not sinning habitually. Now, does this mean that the believer does not have the free will to no longer sin anymore? No, most certainly not. It just means that they are no longer bound to sin anymore and are given a higher status of limited free will (or limited choices). They are also not forced against their free will to have a continued salvation or to still be a believer in Christ if they decide to change their minds, too. They still must choose each day to serve the Lord or to not serve the Lord. For a believer can forfeit his or her salvation if they do not live for Christ and become a new creature; Thus, showing that they were born again.

C. God's Limited to Doing Only Good Type Free Will:
God is limited to doing only that which is good and right. For God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. God is love and in Him is no evil. He is the very embodiment of all that is Holy, just, perfect, and good in this life. For there is none good but God. In other words, God is incapable of doing any type of evil or sin. He is perfect and good in every way. His limitation is that He can only do that which is good and right. Which of course is a good limitation to have. So praise be to our God for being all that is loving and good.

D. Ultimate or Absolute Free Will:
No being in the universe has absolute or ultimate free will. For if absolute free will existed, then there would have to be a being who could do whatever they wanted whether good or evil with no restrictions or consequences attached whatsoever. In other words, this concept of Free Will is purely imaginary because no being possesses this type of Free Will type characteristics.

In other words, It is not God's will or desire that you sin and reject Him. Yes, you are under His creation, sovereign rule, and divine plan (because the Lord can work both good and evil for His purposes), but God does not approve of someone doing evil as if it was His approved of will or desire for your life. God is good. Not evil.

For the moment you take away free will (not ultimate free will) is the moment you make God responsible for directly creating evil and sin. However, there is no darkness in God at all. God created free willed beings that made the decision to be evil and to sin. God did not force Adam and Eve to rebel. They had a choice to either choose life or to choose death. They chose death. Not because God wanted them to. It was because they wanted to choose death.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#9
Now, there are obviously things we can do nothing about. We cannot change death or the consequences of sin. We cannot choose to fly like superman or to shoot laser beams from our eyes at will. Just because we have predetermined perimeters upon our being does not negate the fact that we can still choose between life and death with each one having it's own unique consequences.

When Satan seduced Eve to buy into the lie that she would not die spiritually by eating of the wrong tree, she made a choice. Yes, it was a predetermined choice. But the choice still existed none the less! If she refused Satan and convinced Adam to do the same, then we would not be in the sinful world that we are living in now. God did not force Eve to eat of the wrong tree, nor did God prevent Eve in eating of it either. He gave her the free will choice to choose one way or the other.

For example:
If I put a tiger in a super tight cage to just fit it's body, he is not free to move about or even bend it's neck to get food to eat. He is trapped and confined to a very tight space. But if I put the tiger in a 100 acre land that was fenced in with wild game to feed upon, then he is free to move about naturally. Yes, he is still in a controlled area, but he is now free to move. The tiger has the free choice to now move or to not move of it's own will. But when it was in the cage, it did not have that choice.

Therefore, in conclusion:
God does not take away our free will to either accept Him or to reject Him. It is not an illusion. One choice will lead a person to Heaven and the other choice will lead that person to Hell. God does not force people to go to Heaven nor does He force people to go to Hell. It is that simple.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#10
Why Calvinists are wrong:

God does not create evil or do anything that is a mistake. God does not create people just so that they can burn. God created mankind with a free will to choose Him or to not to choose Him. The moment one claims that God forced people to go to Hell against their free will choice is to make God out to be evil (pure and simple). However, God is good and He is not evil. He is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance (2 Peter 3:19 KJV).

Why some Arminians are wrong:

Some Arminians are so die hard to defend "free will" that God plays no part in drawing someone to them and or giving them repentance. This is just not the case. Yes, we have the free will to choose God (Deuteronomy 30:19 KJV) but no man can come to the Father unless he draws them (John 6:44 KJV), and no man can repent for it is God that grants someone repentance (2 Timothy 2:25 KJV). Then how do we choose God of our own "free will" if it is God that draws us and grants us repentance? Because God is Eternal and is outside of linear time and knows the future "free will" choices of everyone. God knows those who will accept Him and who will reject Him. For in the Lord's love He gives the damned no excuse for their rebellion against Him because He offered freely the gift of salvation for all people. His loving arms were extended to them but they slapped them away. This way the person who rejects Jesus cannot say to the Lord at the Judgment, "You see, I was already damned because my sins were never paid for." However, this person's sins were paid for because Jesus is the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the entire world. They just refused to repent and accept Jesus (i.e. God's love gift) and have condemned themselves to die in their sins (For they refused the sacrifice for their life personally). So they are without excuse.

For the Elect are those who accept the Lord's free love gift of Jesus Christ of their own "free will" choice whereby they are forgiven of their sins against God. God merely knowing their future "free will" choice towards Him had drawn them to Him and granted them repentance. For God Elects us based on His foreknowledge (See verse 2 in: 1 Peter 1:1, 2). God does not make some people to go to Heaven and some people to go to Hell. God does not force anyone into being a certain way. For if God forced us to love Him, it would not longer be true love. It would be a forced love. So it is by free will choice. A free will choice that God is aware of since the beginning of linear time. For God has declared the End from the Beginning (Isaiah 46:10 KJV).

For we exist on a linear time line (within the present). God is Eternal and He exists outside of linear time (Which would place God's existence in living in the past, present, and future).
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#11
Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
(John 8:34-36)

But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
(Romans 6:17-18)

i see that we are all slaves, either to sin or to righteousness.
is the will of a slave truly "free" ?
or is his will bound to the will of his master?

Teach me to do your will, for you are my God;
may your good Spirit lead me on level ground.
(Psalm 143:10)

if to righteousness, that willingly, as a son in love - and great love sets aside it's own will for the good of the one it adores. to willingly forsake my own will is freedom indeed! freedom even from myself :)



 
Dec 9, 2011
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#12
Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
(John 8:34-36)

But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
(Romans 6:17-18)

i see that we are all slaves, either to sin or to righteousness.
is the will of a slave truly "free" ?
or is his will bound to the will of his master?

Teach me to do your will, for you are my God;
may your good Spirit lead me on level ground.
(Psalm 143:10)

if to righteousness, that willingly, as a son in love - and great love sets aside it's own will for the good of the one it adores. to willingly forsake my own will is freedom indeed! freedom even from myself :)



what version is that?
I like the way it said what it said in the red.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#13
what version is that?
I like the way it said what it said in the red.
that's from the NIV -- i copied from biblehub.com -- pretty sure that site uses 1984 NIV specifically (there are a number of different " NIV's ")

:)
 
Sep 16, 2014
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#14
No one in the world has absolute free will. Only God has absolute free will.He can do anything without consequences or having to justify his actions. Ask Job. He knows alot about that.
God has bound Himself to perform His Word. He can't possibly defy that, nor will God take an action outside of holiness and justness.His words justify all He does because His word is immutable, that is, can't be changed once created. Not one of His laws can be changed, but His mercy allows some to be set aside, even abolished within another covenant, such as with the New Covenant in the blood of Jesus. The old depended on the shedding of animal blood, which is annulled due to the final prophesied sacrifice of Jesus, whose blood ratified the oath of God to the promised new covenant. He swore it by Himself.

It is sinful man that believes he can act without consequences or being accountable, justifying himself by his flesh.

Job isn't about that at all. There is no promise from God, no sworn oath, that He will keep His hand of blessing on any man He has not sworn to. Job exhibited a grave doubt in Job 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.


By doing that Job added "religion" to what he already had, already pleasing to God. It drew the attention of Satan, who always takes advantage of weakness. He had a right to demand that Job receive according to his confession. It was Job's choice to offer burnt sacrifices on the speculation his children might have sinned. None of that activity could possibly save one of them. At the end of Job comes the answer from God. The "friends" of Job were censured by God, and Job was restored to twice his former estate for speaking right of God.
 
May 2, 2014
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#15
Does anyone have constructive views on free will,I am certainly open to discussion? Please feel free to share your biblical views.
What exactly are you looking for? I be happy to discuss this subject.
 

storms4me

Junior Member
Nov 22, 2014
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#16
I guess the concept of predestination,how does free will key into this factor?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#17
I guess the concept of predestination,how does free will key into this factor?
What is your opinion?
How do YOU think free will keys into predestination?
 

storms4me

Junior Member
Nov 22, 2014
11
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#18
How do I view predestination,and free will. I believe it is being pulled toward a truth of such magnitude,that it is a choosing to freely give your will to a loving Father,and knowing that your key to grace lies within the very act of death upon the cross. Jesus was willing to die there,I am freely choosing, to believe through faith what he did.
 
M

Marian29

Guest
#19
Does anyone have constructive views on free will,I am certainly open to discussion? Please feel free to share your biblical views.
God has no problem at all to give us the free will, cause His Will will be made anyway. :) Isn't it amazing?...
God is God.
Different of us, as dependents of His Grace and Mercy, we need to think twice, three times... and pray for God enlightenment before taking an important decision...
Is not in vain Jesus said: forgive 7x70 times more. We're always hurting someone through words, gestures, hostile behaviours... To forgive is a gift from God.
I guess if only our free will would be done, we would already had being consumed by fire, like in the OT.

Matt. 6:10 "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as {it is} in heaven."
 
May 2, 2014
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#20
I guess the concept of predestination,how does free will key into this factor?
Predestination simply means to determine something before hand. Theologians have created a whole theological system, however, the word was simple everyday word that the people would understand. The Reformers took this and claimed that God had predestined some people to be saved, however, that is not what was predestined. God predetermined (predestined) certain people for certain purposes. One of the main passages that is used to claim people are predestined to salvation is Romans 8:28-30. It's used in conjunction with Ephesians 1 to claim that this predestination was determined before the foundation of the world. The problem is that both passages are taken out of context to make the argument. In Romans 8, Paul says that those who are predestined are those who love God. God had determined before hand that those who love Him would be conformed to the image of His Son.