A very critical difference between the old and new covenants

[AtonedFor]

.
In the language and mindset of the Hebrew followers of Yahweh,
belief and obedience are tied together. For example …

Deut 18:18-19 "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers,
and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him.
Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" … #8085 … שָׁמַע … shama {shaw-mah'} …
in the Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar):
1) to hear, listen to, obey

So, in the new covenant, the free gift of grace (unwarranted favor)
is initially given with the understanding that …
believers will do their very best to be obedient to the Lord.

In the old covenant …
Obedience to the Law was NOT to be done out of very much appreciation or love for God.
The Israelites constantly rebelled against God because they didn’t have a deep love for Him.

In the new covenant …
Obedience to Jesus IS to be done out of great appreciation and love for He and Father God.
Christians are able to be obedient to the Lord not only because of their great love for Him,
but also because they have a new nature, the indwelling Holy Spirit,
a personal relationship with Father God and Jesus, and God’s word!

Faith and grace …

After the initial free gift of grace through faith, it's all conditional.
The Key … Are God's grace and Jesus' enormous sacrifice
really appreciated enough for one to be obedient?

Because of man's inherited sinful nature,
and the many dozens of WARNINGS (some actually threaten loss of eternal life),
we understand that …
GRACE is simply that anyone at all has a chance of gaining heaven!
GRACE is the free unwarranted gift of OPPORTUNITY!

I just cannot see that all of these WARNINGS are concerning the gaining or losing of rewards!
To me, it's a matter of whether we are willing to ignore the Lord's warnings,
or worse yet, to call Him (and the epistle writers) bluffers, deceivers, or liars!
I am not.

 

[kennethcadwell]

This is a good post, and is true at what you say.
There are a lot of warnings in the bible to believers not to walk in willful sin, and not to return to a life of willful sin.
Those scriptures that speak about losing something, being cut off, become disqualified, being partakers of Christ and the Holy Spirit only if you continue to walk properly are not all speaking about rewards.

The bible says that the gift of salvation is a promise to us by God, but there is a condition to receive it;

Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

Now we see this, and to confirm if this is the truth that this is talking about salvation that you have to endure and do the will of God to get it. Then all we have to do is go to what Jesus said about being saved and salvation;

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.


You have two people here, our Lord and the writer of Hebrews saying the same thing. Now can we go to Paul, Peter, John, or James to see if they say the same? Yes we can, and we are also told by the bible if what we comprehend seems to say different then Jesus then it is our misunderstanding.

Here we will start off with what James said;

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.


Here we have another apostle that agrees with what Jesus said, you have to remain steadfast under trial ( endure ) to receive eternal life. I know some will say it is a reward because of the crown of life, but if you don't receive the crown of life you don't have eternal life.

Paul mentions that we have to remain in obedience to following Christ in our lives to get salvation, and he says this to Timothy;

1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.




He tells Timothy that he has to persist in the teaching ( endure ) and not waver, and by doing so he will save both himself and the people that hear him. Paul then goes on in Romans 11:19-22, and 1 Corinthians on talking about how we should walk and if we don't we will be cut off.
So now we see Jesus, Paul, James, the writer of Hebrews, and Timothy following Paul's instruction all in agreement. Well what about Peter, does he agree as well?

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”



Here you have Peter stating that those who repented and walked according to the Lord's teaching did not endure to stay in the sound teaching of the Lord, and returned to walking in the willful sin. These do not end up having salvation for they turned from walking in the commandment given to them by God to serving willful sin again.

God bless and I hope and pray that people will come to this realization.

 

[Jason0047]

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

Every saint thru out human history was justified by faith in the Messiah (And or the Lord). Yes, folks did not know the name of their Messiah, but the sins committed before hand in the Old Testament were paid for just as all sin was paid for at the cross (Romans 3:25). For it was impossible for the blood of goats and bulls to take away sin (Hebrews 10:4). Only Jesus perfect sacrifice could do that.

All believers had also had a spiritual regeneration and God lived within them, too. Nothing has changed. The Lord our God is the same God today as He was yestereday. For God is not a respector of persons. For the words "born again" are "circumcised in heart" in the Old Testament. That is why Jesus appeared to be surprised that Nicodemus did not know about being born again.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 talks about how God will give a person a new heart and put his Spirit within them so that they can keep His law. This passage was not just for us today, but it was written to the Israelite, too. For most folks read the Scriptures from a selfish ME perspective and they forget who this text was written to originally. In other words, read the passage in Ezekiel 36 as if you were an Israelite and see how that works.

Anyways, the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament is that we will not be punished according to the Law of Moses for breaking the Law. Another difference between the Old and the New Covenants is that we no longer are under the Aaronic Priesthood order whereby we have to go to priest so as to temporarily cover our sins with animals sacrifices. Jesus is of a more perfect Priesthood. A priesthood after the order of Melchisedeck. Jesus is our Eternal Heavenly High Priest and Mediator between God the Father and man whereby we directly confess our sins and they are forever forgiven. Another difference between the Old and the New is that we do not have to adhere to the OT ordinances that were against us in observing the many many rituals and holy days or Sabbaths that were prescribed in the Law of Moses. Christ is our eternal Sabbath under the New Covenant and we find rest in Him.

The Law (i.e. the written Law) was added because of transgression (i.e. people's sins). For the Law was a schoolmaster which was to bring us to Christ.

 

[Elin]

Rewards are not about eternal life, they are about the quality of the born again's work.
Eternal life is not at stake in the rewards.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Rewards are not about eternal life, they are about the quality of the born again's work.
Eternal life is not at stake in the rewards.

Read my post #2, those scriptures have nothing to do about rewards and yet still show no salvation if obedience to the ways of the Lord are not followed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

there are quite a few differences

1. The old was the symbol, the new was the fulfilment

2. The old required obedience, and punishment for disobedience, And required perfect obedience, or a sacrifice had to be given to redeem for disobedience. the new acknowledges we have sinned, and allows us to cry out to God for salvation. for his one sacrifice paid the eternal penalty of sin,

3. The old had a flawed sacrificial system, the mediator was in sin himself. so could not make the sacrifice, The new had a sinless mediator, who sacrificed himself once, and sat down at the right hand of God.

4. The old showed us our sin (schoolmaster), the new shows us how to be obedient (seek after the things of the spirit)

5. The old was flawed, in that no one could live up to it, the new one is perfect in that Christ fulfilled the old, and thus didd what the old could not do

6. The old said stone to death adulterers and other punishments for sin, the new says we all have sinned, and have no right to cast any stone, or punish anyone. for we all need forgiveness.

7. The old said to pluck the splinter from our brothers eyes, the new says to remove the stump from our own first.

8. the old said this is sin, the new STILL says this is sin.

I can go on and on and on..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read my post #2, those scriptures have nothing to do about rewards and yet still show no salvation if obedience to the ways of the Lord are not followed.

how good is good enough? what is the cut off between an obedient slave, and a disobedient slave?

 

[Jason0047]

.belief and obedience are tied together.

No, more like...

#1. Belief & Godly sorrow = (or Produces):
#2. A Spiritual Regeneration & Salvation = (or Which then results in):
#3. Obedience of yielding to God so as to allow Him to do the good work within you.

For caterpillars do not fly because they make artifical wings so as to fly. Caterpillars will one day fly when they are transformed and become butterflies.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Rewards are not about eternal life, they are about the quality of the born again's work.
Eternal life is not at stake in the rewards.

amen..

1 Corinthians 3:15
If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

I do not want to be the one who is there with no reward, and watching them all turn to ashes. but I thank God even if I am, I will still be saved, as though escaping the fire with nothing, not even the clothes on my back.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No, more like...

#1. Belief & Godly sorrow = (or Produces):
#2. A Spiritual Regeneration & Salvation = (or Which then results in):
#3. Obedience of yielding to God so as to allow Him to do the good work within you.

For caterpillars do not fly because they make artifical wings so as to fly. Caterpillars will one day fly when they are transformed and become butterflies.

Faith and obedience do work hand and hand.
Through hearing the word and trusting in what it says comes your belief/faith in the Lord.
Then through that faith in the Lord, and the godly sorrow you fell about your sins that have separated you from God leads you to obey the first command to repent of your sins. Then through that obedience you get baptized, and stay firm in the faith confessing Him before others leading to salvation.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

A VERY CRITICAL DIFFERENCE - the day of Pentecost - when the gift of Holy Spirit became available. The new birth - the new creation - being born again of God's Spirit and having the Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ dwell within us via the gift of Holy Spirit - being sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. We are now the sons of God via the gift of Holy Spirit . . . etc.

[and everything that EG listed]

 

[kennethcadwell]

how good is good enough? what is the cut off between an obedient slave, and a disobedient slave?

Go to prayer to the Lord, and listen to what Jesus said in Matthew 25.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith and obedience do work hand and hand.
Through hearing the word and trusting in what it says comes your belief/faith in the Lord.
Then through that faith in the Lord, and the godly sorrow you fell about your sins that have separated you from God leads you to obey the first command to repent of your sins. Then through that obedience you get baptized, and stay firm in the faith confessing Him before others leading to salvation.

that is like adding law to grace, your trying to earn your salvation. you have it wrong.

Hearing the word leads to repentance, which leads to sorrow, which leads to seeking out how to get out of the predicament you are in (dead because of sin, guilty of sin, Separated from God) which leads you to Christ, which leads you to faith in what God says, which leads you to call out on the name of the lord to be saved.

Which makes you an adopted child. which makes you born again, which gives you the spirit of God to teach you all things and chasten you when you mess up.

Which leads you to WANT to follow God (because of what he has given you) which leads you to praise God to all men, Make an open testimony of your faith at baptism, Want o assemble yourselfs with those of like faith in the body of Christ, Want to give of yourself to others, and the more you take in the love of God, make you want to share the love of God, and love all others, which makes you less reliant on yourself. which makes you sin less, and serve more.

this is how it is done.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Go to prayer to the Lord, and listen to what Jesus said in Matthew 25.....

matt 25 does not tell me how good is good enough, It just tells me what Gods people will do.

they will trust God and increase the talents given to them, they will give food and drink to the hungry, give them clothes, visit them in prison.

I can do ALL of this, and still not be good enough to get to heaven..

so again, how good is good enough?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Wow, this is the first thread I've liked 100% so far.

There are many differences between those two covenants, and they are not the only Bible covenants as Jason pointed out. Also the Noahic covenant is an important one that is eternal.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

matt 25 does not tell me how good is good enough, It just tells me what Gods people will do.

they will trust God and increase the talents given to them, they will give food and drink to the hungry, give them clothes, visit them in prison.

I can do ALL of this, and still not be good enough to get to heaven..

so again, how good is good enough?

Agreed . . . Look at Ellen DeGeneres - she gives and gives but she is a confessed homosexual. [used as just as an example-not in any judgment]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Agreed . . . Look at Ellen DeGeneres - she gives and gives but she is a confessed homosexual. [used as just as an example-not in any judgment]

many people who reject God do those things.

people take talents given them by God and make a prophet, they give to the poor, they feed the poor, they visit people in jail.

those things do not mean anything, except Gods children WILL do those, only not out of need, but out of LOVE

In fact a true child of God can do those things, and it be sin, because the attitude in which they do them.

sin is an attitude, not an act, the act is a result of the attitude. A moral good deed can be sin if the attitude for which it is done is wrong.

 

[4enlightment]

[video=youtube_share;SOmvbXMbCcU]http://youtu.be/SOmvbXMbCcU[/video]

 

[peacefulbeliever]

many people who reject God do those things.

people take talents given them by God and make a prophet, they give to the poor, they feed the poor, they visit people in jail.

those things do not mean anything, except Gods children WILL do those, only not out of need, but out of LOVE

In fact a true child of God can do those things, and it be sin, because the attitude in which they do them.

sin is an attitude, not an act, the act is a result of the attitude. A moral good deed can be sin if the attitude for which it is done is wrong.

I just meant that even people who are not born again can give . . . can do good things . . . . so doing those things i.e. they give to the poor, they feed the poor, they visit people in jail. - does not guarantee or show that someone is born again nor saved. So "works" by themselves mean nothing - and it just goes to show that "works" do not "equal" salvation. Maybe I know what I mean but am not conveying it as I should -

But I do understand what you are saying and agree!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Agreed . . . Look at Ellen DeGeneres - she gives and gives but she is a confessed homosexual. [used as just as an example-not in any judgment]

Matthew 25 has three parables in it, and in those parables they talk about the same thing being ready and obedience.
You can not use an example of an unsaved person to justify good deeds mean nothing. They are not a true follower of Christ and therefore their deeds are done for self, not for love of God.
When it comes to a professing Christian, then obedience does matter and Jesus shows this by saying over and over again that if you love Him you will obey and keep all of His commandments and teaching. Not just some of what He said in the gospel. Then Paul in his letter to Titus confirms this;

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate


Your works are evident of if you are obedient or disobedient to the Lord, and if your works show disobedience like refusing to be baptized, refusing to help others in need, and denying the Holy Spirit's guidance then you are disrespecting Jesus and in turn disrespecting God. If you profess to know and love Jesus as your Lord and Savior, but your works show other wise then you are not saved.