Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

[elf3]

When we stand before God what does He see that is covering us? If we have truly accepted Christ and we truly have the saving faith in Christ, God will see one thing covering us. The blood of Christ. God won't be looking for water He will be looking for blood.

Now yes I do believe that Christians should be baptized as a public sign of their faith but it's not water that saves us but blood.

 

[1joseph]

I agree. We are only saved through Christ's sinless blood. Nothing else is needed. If not, Christ could not have told the thief on the cross, "This day you will be with me in paradise." Through Christ we are clothed in righteousness.

 

[ELECT]

I personally believe one can accept Christ by believing in Him, turning from our sin, and confessing His name to others. In other words: believe, repent, confess. Then God commands that you then be baptized to show you have accepted him. I personally left the Church of Christ this year and now attend a Baptist Church. The reason being is that I read in the Bible in Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 2:8, Rom. 5:1, Rom. 3:24, and there are many other verses that tell us that we are saved/justified through our faith in Jesus Christ. Read Acts 10:43 as well as Acts 2:38. You will see that in Acts 10:43, Peter never mentioned baptism when he was speaking to Cornelius about Jesus Christ. "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." As you can see it is clear that baptism is not essential for salvation. Anyone is welcome to comment/debate on this topic.

Why did Jesus say ye must be born again of the water and the Spirit ?

 

[ELECT]

I agree. We are only saved through Christ's sinless blood. Nothing else is needed. If not, Christ could not have told the thief on the cross, "This day you will be with me in paradise." Through Christ we are clothed in righteousness.

The theif was born again

 

[eternally-gratefull]

acts 2: 38 does not even say one has to get baptized to receive the gift of the spirit. the verse literally is a command from peter to everyone in attendance to repent, for the gift of the spirit, then a secondary command given to those who received remission of sin to get baptised. the greek language did not pass very well to the english in this text.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why did Jesus say ye must be born again of the water and the Spirit ?

because one has to be born of water to get physical life (flesh) and one has to be born of the spirit to receive spiritual life (spirit)

that which is born of flesh Iwater0 is flesh, that which is born of spirit is spirit.

as Jesus said..

[SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind bloweth where it will, and thou hearest the voice thereof, but knowest not whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

it is not a physical act, or because of a physical act, it happens and we do not even feel it or know where it comes from, if it occures only at baptism (which many claim) then we know exactly where it came from.

Your born of the spirit by John 3: 16, not by water baptism.

 

[1joseph]

You are born of water at your physical birth (your birthday). You must be born again unto salvation, the second birth, by the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[1joseph]

Yes, he was born again on the cross when he asked Christ to receive him into His kingdom. He had already been born of water at his physical birth.

 

[Jackson123]

Water baptism is symbol, If the person that receive water baptism not serious and purely love the Lord, it will not make any different. Only if person immersed in the name of Father, Son and Holy spirit, will change that person.

Ritual baptism it self doesn't have the power to forgive sin.

 

[1joseph]

Yes, I agree. The water baptism was a symbolic show of renewal, not a requirement for renewal.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I like what most of our brothers and sisters in Christ have said so far, but I would remind all that through baptism is how we are born again. Buried in His death, and risen to a new life with a spiritual mindset.
The other thing I would pose to people is you must follow the greatest command to enter into heaven;

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Then our Lord Jesus said that if you believe in Him, and love Him you will do what He said, not just hear, and He commanded baptism;

John 14:15
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Luke 6:47
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them,

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


Then we have James and Paul telling us that if we fail to do something, or use being under grace as an excuse to do or not do something then it is sinful;

James 4:17
Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

Galatians 5:13
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
( Also read Romans 6 )

So by what we see James and Paul saying we can see that we are not to use grace as an excuse to sin, and we also are not to use other examples as Peter when he denied Christ to say we can to at hard times. And definitely not use the thief on the cross for a reason to not be baptized, for the thief did not have the time to get baptized, plus he is not an example of the new covenant as it was not issued in tell after Jesus crucifixion.

Hebrews 9:16
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

I agree. We are only saved through Christ's sinless blood. Nothing else is needed. If not, Christ could not have told the thief on the cross, "This day you will be with me in paradise." Through Christ we are clothed in righteousness.

Christ blood does cover us, but there are things that He commanded we follow to have His blood cover us.
And as I and others have posted before ( shown above ) the their is not an example of the new covenant, for it was not installed tell after Jesus died. Jesus granted him forgiveness before His death.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ blood does cover us, but there are things that He commanded we follow to have His blood cover us.
And as I and others have posted before ( shown above ) the their is not an example of the new covenant, for it was not installed tell after Jesus died. Jesus granted him forgiveness before His death.

God commanded us to do many things (including the still valid commands of the law)

You can not take one or two of those commands and make them salvic, and disregard the rst of them, You either obey them all for salvation, or admit you can not do them all, and let God save you.

it is all or nothing.

 

[ELECT]

Christ blood does cover us, but there are things that He commanded we follow to have His blood cover us.
And as I and others have posted before ( shown above ) the their is not an example of the new covenant, for it was not installed tell after Jesus died. Jesus granted him forgiveness before His death.

we must walk in the light to activate the power of the blood

 

[SeaBass]

I personally believe one can accept Christ by believing in Him, turning from our sin, and confessing His name to others. In other words: believe, repent, confess. Then God commands that you then be baptized to show you have accepted him. I personally left the Church of Christ this year and now attend a Baptist Church. The reason being is that I read in the Bible in Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 2:8, Rom. 5:1, Rom. 3:24, and there are many other verses that tell us that we are saved/justified through our faith in Jesus Christ. Read Acts 10:43 as well as Acts 2:38. You will see that in Acts 10:43, Peter never mentioned baptism when he was speaking to Cornelius about Jesus Christ. "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." As you can see it is clear that baptism is not essential for salvation. Anyone is welcome to comment/debate on this topic.

Why would you think one must believe, repent, confess to be saved but not be baptized?

If one did not have to be baptized to be saved then why must one believe, repent or confess? Did you read in Eph 1:13; Eph 2:8; Rom 5:1; Rom 3:24 that one must believe, repent, confess to be saved?

You posted "Then God commands you then be baptized..."

God commanding water baptism makes it necessary of for no other reason. Not obeying is sin. doing unrighteousness.
Doing what God commanded is righteousness and God saves those that work righteousness, Acts 10:35?

Peter did command Cornelius to be water baptized, Acts 10:47,48 and by obeying that command is how Cornelius would be working righteousness (Acts 10:35) and be accepted with God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

God commanded us to do many things (including the still valid commands of the law)

You can not take one or two of those commands and make them salvic, and disregard the rst of them, You either obey them all for salvation, or admit you can not do them all, and let God save you.

it is all or nothing.

Wrong, for the 10 commandments have God's moral law installed into them which we are still to obey and follow. But the written ordinances of the mosaic law was done away with. The punishments, sacrifices, rituals, and traditions from it.
Besides knowing what is sin and should not be done, the other commandments that we are held to is the one's given to us by our Lord under the new covenant.

Love Him, our neighbors, and our enemies; repent of sins; baptized; confession; love, forgiveness, mercy, and compassion.......

we must walk in the light to activate the power of the blood

Yes and to walk in light is to not walk in willful sin that is unrepented of, and not asked forgiveness of. And to walk in love for Him and everybody else including enemies, and obeying His teachings.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wrong, for the 10 commandments have God's moral law installed into them which we are still to obey and follow. But the written ordinances of the mosaic law was done away with. The punishments, sacrifices, rituals, and traditions from it.
Besides knowing what is sin and should not be done, the other commandments that we are held to is the one's given to us by our Lord under the new covenant.

Love Him, our neighbors, and our enemies; repent of sins; baptized; confession; love, forgiveness, mercy, and compassion.......

No, I am not wrong. For even paul says the law is not done away with. or made of no effect

And again, even if we agreed this is true, you would have to do ALL of those things 100 percent to be saved (you forgot quite a few, like communion, giving to the poor, going to church, making disciples of all nations, studying to show ourselves approved. etc etc.

Paul made it clear, if your going to add one command, your indebted to keep every command,

my part about the sacrifices was to prove to you we can not do what you demand, For where the law made a demand to sacrifice, Your making a demand to repent Well once a year you would have to come up with some way on the day of atonment to take care of all your unrepentant or unknown sins,

can you explain how that law foreshadowed the NT? what part of the NT is a fulfilment of that part of the law?

 

[1still_waters]

The thing is, the command to be baptized is such a simple command.
It's not as difficult as loving your neighbor or enemy.

I don't understand why so many resist it.
If someone is resisting such a simple command, doesn't it follow they'll have major issues submitting to more difficult commands like loving your neighbor, or loving your enemy?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The thing is, the command to be baptized is such a simple command.
It's not as difficult as loving your neighbor or enemy.

I don't understand why so many resist it.
If someone is resisting such a simple command, doesn't it follow they'll have major issues submitting to more difficult commands like loving your neighbor, or loving your enemy?

have you ever known somebody to resist it?

I have een people scared of going into public (they would be scared to do ANYTHING in public, not just this) but I have never met anyone who resist it (for even these scared people have made the choice to overcome their fears after a time of seeing God being faithful in other aspects of their lives)

I am just asking, Not trying to argue..lol

 

[kennethcadwell]

No, I am not wrong. For even paul says the law is not done away with. or made of no effect

And again, even if we agreed this is true, you would have to do ALL of those things 100 percent to be saved (you forgot quite a few, like communion, giving to the poor, going to church, making disciples of all nations, studying to show ourselves approved. etc etc.

Paul made it clear, if your going to add one command, your indebted to keep every command,

my part about the sacrifices was to prove to you we can not do what you demand, For where the law made a demand to sacrifice, Your making a demand to repent Well once a year you would have to come up with some way on the day of atonment to take care of all your unrepentant or unknown sins,

can you explain how that law foreshadowed the NT? what part of the NT is a fulfilment of that part of the law?

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances ( Mosaic laws ) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

When Paul speaks of the law in one scripture he says we are not under the law, but then in others he says we should still obey the law. You must then break it down, and when you look at when Paul says to follow the law he always list what comes from the 10 commandments not any of the many mosaic laws. When he is talking about not being under the law, he is referring to the mosaic laws that consist of cleansing rituals, animal sacrifices, curses/punishments for sin, and so on......


Here I give you the covenants throughout the bible and how they apply and to who they apply to;

The Bible speaks of seven different covenants, four of which (Abrahamic, Palestinian, Mosaic, Davidic) God made with the nation of Israel. Of those four, three are unconditional in nature; that is, regardless of Israel's obedience or disobedience, God still will fulfill these covenants with Israel. One of the covenants, the Mosaic Covenant, is conditional in nature. That is, this covenant will bring either blessing or cursing depending on Israel's obedience or disobedience. Three of the covenants (Adamic, Noahic, New) are made between God and mankind in general, and are not limited to the nation of Israel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances ( Mosaic laws ) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

When Paul speaks of the law in one scripture he says we are not under the law, but then in others he says we should still obey the law. You must then break it down, and when you look at when Paul says to follow the law he always list what comes from the 10 commandments not any of the many mosaic laws. When he is talking about not being under the law, he is referring to the mosaic laws that consist of cleansing rituals, animal sacrifices, curses/punishments for sin, and so on......


Here I give you the covenants throughout the bible and how they apply and to who they apply to;

The Bible speaks of seven different covenants, four of which (Abrahamic, Palestinian, Mosaic, Davidic) God made with the nation of Israel. Of those four, three are unconditional in nature; that is, regardless of Israel's obedience or disobedience, God still will fulfill these covenants with Israel. One of the covenants, the Mosaic Covenant, is conditional in nature. That is, this covenant will bring either blessing or cursing depending on Israel's obedience or disobedience. Three of the covenants (Adamic, Noahic, New) are made between God and mankind in general, and are not limited to the nation of Israel.

The mosaic covenant stated that you have to obey these laws. if you fail to obey these laws (sin) you are condemned by the law.

Each time you break the law, a sin sacrifice was required. Otherwise the breaker of the law would be condemned by that law..

Each year, on the day of atonement, the high priest would enter the Holy of Holy's and make a sacrifice of atonement, to allow forgiveness of ALL sin the previous year, not only his own, but those of everyone in Israel. because no one could remember every sin, or even know every sin they have committed.

As Hebrews says, (as well as collision) Jesus took that penalty away from us, having become the high priest, who died one to permanently remove the penalty of sin (that is what paul is telling us, Jesus did not remove the law, he removed the PENALTY of the law)

so now you want to remove the animal sacrifice, and replace it with water baptism and repentance and whatever command you claim we must do?

I repeat. Either jesus paid it all, and has removed all sin (penalty) from those who are saved.

or you need to go back to animal sacrifice and obey the WHOLE law. not just one command, because your still dead in your sin. You can not add one command, and reject all the other commands. (not to mention baptism was a command of the law, for not only priest, but gentiles who were converting to the jewish faith) so it is not even just a new testament command.

The law still has not been your schoolmaster, because you still do not understand the law.