Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

[Word_Swordsman]

Yet the disciples (including John) were to baptize (could only baptize) with water, ONLY JESUS could baptize with the Holy Spirit (and fire).

The apostles, and everyone today are commissioned to baptize with the baptism "authorized" by the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"(Matt 28:19), the Son does not need authorization for Holy Spirit baptism, the ones that need authorization are the disciples... the ONLY AUTHORIZED baptism is the baptism with water, the one and only authorized baptism of Eph 4:4.

Oops, there's something wrong with that!

Acts 19:2-7 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And all the men were about twelve.

They had already been water baptized by John. So which water baptism have you settled on, seeing you have pointed two of them. Now you have John baptizing unto repentance and manifesting Jesus to Israel, Jesus water baptizing and spirit baptizing, Jesus only "authorized" to do the spiritual, Jesus baptizing in His name, and Paul then according to you not "authorized" to do what he did, laying on hands unto filling of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues. Which is the "one".

I believe none of those save. The Romans 10 route saves. Believe and confess Jesus. The water baptism is a work that testifies to the brethren of what happened inside, a figure of the real, not to do with the cleansing of the "flesh", but of the heart. The spirit baptism empowers to service, very much distinct from all other baptisms.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Oops, there's something wrong with that!

Acts 19:2-7 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And all the men were about twelve.

They had already been water baptized by John. So which water baptism have you settled on, seeing you have pointed two of them. Now you have John baptizing unto repentance and manifesting Jesus to Israel, Jesus water baptizing and spirit baptizing, Jesus only "authorized" to do the spiritual, Jesus baptizing in His name, and Paul then according to you not "authorized" to do what he did, laying on hands unto filling of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues. Which is the "one".

I believe none of those save. The Romans 10 route saves. Believe and confess Jesus. The water baptism is a work that testifies to the brethren of what happened inside, a figure of the real, not to do with the cleansing of the "flesh", but of the heart. The spirit baptism empowers to service, very much distinct from all other baptisms.

Go and read my post #814 for I explained this passage in Acts.
Being baptized into Jesus in verse 5 was a separate act from the laying on of hands in verse 6.
They were done simultaneously as in first immersed in water in the Jesus name, being buried and resurrected into Him in the baptism, and then Paul did the laying on of hands for them to receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Great, we move on from milk to meat perhaps.

Romans 6:3-8 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

The act of being water baptized is not what saves us.

I am looking at the American flag. It symbolizes power and majesty. I have pledged to my country through saluting it. But that piece of cloth with ink on it is not the power of the U.S. of America. It is a figure of, a symbol of all Americans who make America great. It puts me in remembrance of how God ordained this nation to be great for Him. But if an enemy comes, holding that flag up before them won't affect them. They will be anticipating a fight for the principles behind that symbol. That is how God meant water baptism to be. In itself it has no power. The real power of God is demonstrated through spiritual baptism into Christ and the Holy Spirit. There are signs attending that baptism. Most people submitting to that symbol reject the power it represents. That power is within our spirit and soul realm, not at all involving the flesh body until our mind is conformed to the mind of Christ. There is no substitute for that spiritual blessing by stopping at a water baptism.

Being immersed in water does not put anyone into Christ or Christ into us. Our agreement with God that Jesus is Lord, the Son of God, the Christ risen from death is what God saves us by. Our "flag" representing that is John's water baptism.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

The scripture doesn't say "water" was involved. They already had the water experience. Are you saying John's water baptism was worthless? Those men, when they heard Paul's message, believe, and right then were baptized into Jesus by their belief.

Acts 2:38 (KJV) [SUP]38 [/SUP] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

None of John's disciples had received the Holy Spirit, though John was anointed by the Holy Spirit to minister. None of John's disciples had experienced anything like that. It ought to be obvious that the baptism Peter spoke of was beyond that of John's, for none of John's disciples are said to have spoken in tongues evidencing the gift of the Spirit at that time. The theatre had moved from John's platform to that of Jesus. That experience is modeled in the house of Cornelius receiving that gift of God as a cloak of power from God.

The Acts 19 case involved a baptism not like that of John's. Those men already had that decades ago. You will not find where John's water baptism looking TO the coming of Christ to water becomes a baptism INTO Christ post cross.

 

[SeaBass]

1 Pet 3:20,21 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

OT type:----------- saved by water (flood)
NT antitype:------ saved by water (baptism)


Acts 2:28 "... be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ..."
Acts 10:47,48 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, ....And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord."

The baptism of Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47,48 are the same water baptism in the name of the Lord.

Acts 8:38 "And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him."


Water baptism of Christ's great commission, in the name of Christ, for remission of sins/saves, is commanded, and was obeyed by the eunuch and is the one baptism of Eph 4:5.

 

[Kerry]

Yes the cross of Christ means nothing, He suffered and was nailed to cross and beaten till his bones showed and his blood ran down the cross and all the way that he carried it. But you must dunk your head under water by a priest in order to be saved. That's bible right there aint that what the preacher said.

 

[SeaBass]

The cross will mean nothing to those that will not do what Christ said, Lk 6:46. Christ's death does not mean automatic, unconditional salvation for every man, Heb 2:9. Christ's cross requires man's obedience, Heb 5:9.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The scripture doesn't say "water" was involved. They already had the water experience. Are you saying John's water baptism was worthless? Those men, when they heard Paul's message, believe, and right then were baptized into Jesus by their belief.

Acts 2:38 (KJV) [SUP]38 [/SUP] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

None of John's disciples had received the Holy Spirit, though John was anointed by the Holy Spirit to minister. None of John's disciples had experienced anything like that. It ought to be obvious that the baptism Peter spoke of was beyond that of John's, for none of John's disciples are said to have spoken in tongues evidencing the gift of the Spirit at that time. The theatre had moved from John's platform to that of Jesus. That experience is modeled in the house of Cornelius receiving that gift of God as a cloak of power from God.

The Acts 19 case involved a baptism not like that of John's. Those men already had that decades ago. You will not find where John's water baptism looking TO the coming of Christ to water becomes a baptism INTO Christ post cross.

John's baptism in water was not what was commanded and commissioned in Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16.

John's baptism was for remission of sins....................Through Jesus blood by the crucifixion we get the remission of sin

so now the new meaning for the baptism through water immersion is not to get remission of sins, but to receive remission of sins by the Lords blood by being buried in His death and resurrection (Romans 6:4-5) and for a clear conscious (1 Peter 3:21). Only the Lord baptizes us with the Holy Spirit, no man can or was commissioned to do that, which is why we see some receiving the Holy Spirit before baptism. Because it is only something He can administer to us, and put there to show the only one baptism (Ephesians 4:5) we can administer is in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by immersing in water. And Peter says it still saves us (1 Peter 3:21) because it is our answer to receive and follow the Lord openly in keeping His commands, as it is part of a believers life as Jesus showed in Mark 16:16.

 

[mailmandan]

1 Pet 3:20,21 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

OT type:----------- saved by water (flood)
NT antitype:------ saved by water (baptism)

Was Noah and his family literally saved BY the flood water or BY the ARK (Hebrews 11:7) THROUGH the flood water? 1 Peter 3:20 (NAS) - who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. *Note: ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE FLOOD WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.

 

[plaintalk]

To Becca4peace
After 81 years and I am still trying to figure it out. Recently, I came across John 1: 12, 13 (they were always there, but I just didn’t see it.)
But as many as received as received Him, to them he gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1: 12, 13) NASB
Many folks say that receiving Jesus by believing in His means that we have been saved but these verses appear to be saying something different. They say that receiving Jesus by believing in His name means two things, (1) we are given the right to become children of God, (2) we are begotten by God! We are on the right path, but not yet saved. When we become a child of God, IMO, we are saved. What do you think? This takes us to Acts 2: 37; three thousand souls heard Peter’s words and they believed; they were pierced to the heart by the thought that they had been complicit in the death of our Lord. They were begotten by God and given the right to become children of God! They asked, “Brethren, what shall we do?” (Acts 2: 37) Peter responded, “Repent and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 2: 38) If that is a fair understanding, we must ask is their support for this interpretation in other Scriptures?
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ. (Gal. 3: 26, 27) NASB
Through faith, we are baptized into Christ and clothed with Christ. Why is that important? Because all spiritual blessings are in Christ. (Eph. 1: 3) That includes forgiveness, life, salvation, righteousness and sonship and much more. Yes, since Jesus is the Son of God, when we are baptized into Him, we are adopted as children of God. What do you think?

 

[presidente]

I personally believe one can accept Christ by believing in Him, turning from our sin, and confessing His name to others. In other words: believe, repent, confess. Then God commands that you then be baptized to show you have accepted him. I personally left the Church of Christ this year and now attend a Baptist Church. The reason being is that I read in the Bible in Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 2:8, Rom. 5:1, Rom. 3:24, and there are many other verses that tell us that we are saved/justified through our faith in Jesus Christ. Read Acts 10:43 as well as Acts 2:38. You will see that in Acts 10:43, Peter never mentioned baptism when he was speaking to Cornelius about Jesus Christ. "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." As you can see it is clear that baptism is not essential for salvation. Anyone is welcome to comment/debate on this topic.

Peter still wanted to baptize them. He thought they should not forbid water to those who had received the Holy Ghost. Luke seems to focus more on receiving the Spirit as related to power and gifting. Paul emphasizes the Spirit in relation to salvation and walking in faith.

 

[plaintalk]

SeaBass
IMO it is really a stretch to apply Matt. 3: 10 to the apostles only rather than to the all the people who were coming out to be baptized by John in water. It seems to me that we find out who “you” is when we consider Luke 3: 16, a comparable passage. The “you” is all the people, “them all”. That coupled with the fact that Peter appeared to find reference to the Gentiles in Jesus’ promise to the apostles (Acts 11: 16), leads me to believe that the restrictive interpretation you give, may be too restrictive.
Then there is Jesus statement to Nicodemus that we must be born of both water and Spirit to enter the kingdom. How can you be born of water (come forth) if you have not first been immersed in water, and how can you metaphorically be born (come forth) of the Spirit unless you have been immersed in the Spirit.
1 Cor. 10: 2 tells us that Israel was baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the Sea. The cloud appears to be more than H[SUP]2[/SUP]0.
Cornelius was apparently baptized with the Spirit and then ordered by Peter to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus. (Acts 10: 44- 48)
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. (1 Cor. 12: 13) Marginal readings give “in one Spirit.”
The fact that the one spiritual birth (John 3: 5) is of two elements, water and Spirit, leads me to believe that the one baptism (Eph. 4: 5) is of two elements, water and Spirit. God bless.