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Yes, they have ceased. Miraculous signs were for a certain time and purpose (bring about the completed word of God and confirmation of that word) which has long been fulfilled with the word being completed with John writing Revelation before the end of the first century. There is no reason or purpose for them today.
Jesus healed thousands at the beginning of His ministry. He ceased from healing at the end of His ministry.
There is a gift of healing that is given to the person who is infirmed. There is little evidence that the gift of healing is given to a "healer" as some would have us to believe. Perhaps the reason the counterfeiter is able to cause so much confusion in the church today.
If folks desired Christ more than gifts we would change the world.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
There is a gift of healing that is given to the person who is infirmed. There is little evidence that the gift of healing is given to a "healer" as some would have us to believe. Perhaps the reason the counterfeiter is able to cause so much confusion in the church today.
If folks desired Christ more than gifts we would change the world.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I am not charismatic nor Pentecostal . . . and I believe that the manifestation of the Spirit is still for today and today's believers. Scripture says that the "manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man [believer] to profit withal." The three "things" in 13:8 are NOT gifts but are part of the gift of holy spirit - there are nine manifestations of the one gift. [12:7-10] And if "word of knowledge" has ceased then we CANNOT be led by the Holy Spirit.
I agree that a lot of what we see today in some churches regarding the manifestation of the Spirit is more based on an "emotional" experience and misapplied and really somewhat ridiculous - these things termed "dance in the Spirit", "laughing in the Spirit", "slain in the Spirit", even "barking in the Spirit" are a complete degradation of the manifestation of the Spirit, causing confusion and probably why no one believes in the power given to us via the gift of holy spirit.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
I agree that a lot of what we see today in some churches regarding the manifestation of the Spirit is more based on an "emotional" experience and misapplied and really somewhat ridiculous - these things termed "dance in the Spirit", "laughing in the Spirit", "slain in the Spirit", even "barking in the Spirit" are a complete degradation of the manifestation of the Spirit, causing confusion and probably why no one believes in the power given to us via the gift of holy spirit.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
I am not charismatic nor Pentecostal . . . and I believe that the manifestation of the Spirit is still for today and today's believers. Scripture says that the "manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man [believer] to profit withal." The three "things" in 13:8 are NOT gifts but are part of the gift of holy spirit - there are nine manifestations of the one gift. [12:7-10] And if "word of knowledge" has ceased then we CANNOT be led by the Holy Spirit.
I agree that a lot of what we see today in some churches regarding the manifestation of the Spirit is more based on an "emotional" experience and misapplied and really somewhat ridiculous - these things termed "dance in the Spirit", "laughing in the Spirit", "slain in the Spirit", even "barking in the Spirit" are a complete degradation of the manifestation of the Spirit, causing confusion and probably why no one believes in the power given to us via the gift of holy spirit.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
I agree that a lot of what we see today in some churches regarding the manifestation of the Spirit is more based on an "emotional" experience and misapplied and really somewhat ridiculous - these things termed "dance in the Spirit", "laughing in the Spirit", "slain in the Spirit", even "barking in the Spirit" are a complete degradation of the manifestation of the Spirit, causing confusion and probably why no one believes in the power given to us via the gift of holy spirit.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
The church is powerless because men covet power that is not theirs to possess. There are very few hearts inn which the Holy Spirit can minister. So many think they can minister in their own strength and fail to see that apart from Christ they can only serve themselves.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Exactly. We are to test the spirits. Hebrews 5:14 says it all - ...who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. We need to discern what's right and wrong and there is right and wrong on both sides.
I forget who it was that mentioned a church that does on one corner and a church the doesn't on the other. I look at that picture and see a divided Church, a divided Body of Christ. And I picture an invitation to both to come together, and the combined numbers congregate in the middle of the street between the two edifices.
dcon, I hear ya, there are fakes, there are over-sellers, there are blasphemers, all of them among the group Paul told to put a leash on it. But he didn't say stop. Proper place, proper time. Proper place, proper time. That is what the church needs to learn today.
And wow. That guy who thinks this world no longer needs healing and wisdom and discernment et al... wow. Ephphatha!
I forget who it was that mentioned a church that does on one corner and a church the doesn't on the other. I look at that picture and see a divided Church, a divided Body of Christ. And I picture an invitation to both to come together, and the combined numbers congregate in the middle of the street between the two edifices.
dcon, I hear ya, there are fakes, there are over-sellers, there are blasphemers, all of them among the group Paul told to put a leash on it. But he didn't say stop. Proper place, proper time. Proper place, proper time. That is what the church needs to learn today.
And wow. That guy who thinks this world no longer needs healing and wisdom and discernment et al... wow. Ephphatha!
1 Corinthians 13:8-10 Where there are prophesies they will cease, where there are tongues they will be stilled, where there is knowledge it will pass away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when completion comes the imperfect disappears.
Understand the verse. When completion comes the imperfect disappears. When will tongues not be necessary? When will a word of knowledge and a word of wisdom and discernment of spirits and healings not be necessary. When we are finally with God. Think about it. We will never get sick...why would we need healing? We won't need to discern between spirits if we are in Heaven. We won't need a word of Knowledge... there is an entire library. We won't need a word of wisdom, God would depart all the wisdom we need. We won't need the gift of tongues for we would understand all tongues. When the completion comes, there would be no longer any need for those gifts, save for faith, hope and love. Which is what is written.
But while we are still on earth and the end hasn't come and the new earth isn't established. We will still get sick and need healing. We would still need prophecy to edify, rebuke and encourage. We would still need words of wisdom and knowledge. We would still need tongues as we do not all speak the same language. We definitely need the discernment of spirits and these last days.
The Spirit is not given in measure, therefore these gifts must be present. Jesus said that the gifts of power must be present in presenting the Gospel. We see it is written that Paul says one must sow seed and another must water. Sower seed is spreading the word, watering is using the gifts given by God to show the reality of God.
If you say to a non believer God is a caring healing God. He can and might even except it. But if you show him his 8 year old daughter gets healed in front of his eyes. He believes in God, regardless what anybody else says for the rest of his life. He needs nothing more. That's why Jesus said to His disciples if you go to a place and they accept you not, shake the dust from your shoes, because that would even witness against them. It seems harsh, but if you put it into context it makes sense.
Jesus said to Jerusalem that if the same miracles (watering) took place in Sodom that took place in Jerusalem it would not have perished. That is how important He regarded it.
Now I've got a question. If Jesus who knew everything regarded that so important and took 3 and a half years to teach His disciples HOW to do it. Why on earth would it cease the moment that the disciples breath their last. Would they not also train others as was instructed? And even if a lot of it might have been forgotten, is it not written about the Holy Spirit that He will teach us and remind us?
So the simple answer to your question. No. The gifts have not ceased for the end has not come yet.
Understand the verse. When completion comes the imperfect disappears. When will tongues not be necessary? When will a word of knowledge and a word of wisdom and discernment of spirits and healings not be necessary. When we are finally with God. Think about it. We will never get sick...why would we need healing? We won't need to discern between spirits if we are in Heaven. We won't need a word of Knowledge... there is an entire library. We won't need a word of wisdom, God would depart all the wisdom we need. We won't need the gift of tongues for we would understand all tongues. When the completion comes, there would be no longer any need for those gifts, save for faith, hope and love. Which is what is written.
But while we are still on earth and the end hasn't come and the new earth isn't established. We will still get sick and need healing. We would still need prophecy to edify, rebuke and encourage. We would still need words of wisdom and knowledge. We would still need tongues as we do not all speak the same language. We definitely need the discernment of spirits and these last days.
The Spirit is not given in measure, therefore these gifts must be present. Jesus said that the gifts of power must be present in presenting the Gospel. We see it is written that Paul says one must sow seed and another must water. Sower seed is spreading the word, watering is using the gifts given by God to show the reality of God.
If you say to a non believer God is a caring healing God. He can and might even except it. But if you show him his 8 year old daughter gets healed in front of his eyes. He believes in God, regardless what anybody else says for the rest of his life. He needs nothing more. That's why Jesus said to His disciples if you go to a place and they accept you not, shake the dust from your shoes, because that would even witness against them. It seems harsh, but if you put it into context it makes sense.
Jesus said to Jerusalem that if the same miracles (watering) took place in Sodom that took place in Jerusalem it would not have perished. That is how important He regarded it.
Now I've got a question. If Jesus who knew everything regarded that so important and took 3 and a half years to teach His disciples HOW to do it. Why on earth would it cease the moment that the disciples breath their last. Would they not also train others as was instructed? And even if a lot of it might have been forgotten, is it not written about the Holy Spirit that He will teach us and remind us?
So the simple answer to your question. No. The gifts have not ceased for the end has not come yet.
I wouldn't expect a miracle to be accompanied with physical evidence, other then one had cancer and now they don't. The supernatural often doesn't come with evidence. Please don't take me wrong, I don't except the Benny Hinns of the world, nor have I ever spoke in tongues, but I have heard from other sincere and un-boastful Christians that they have, who I am to question it?
Acts 14:
8 And in Lystra a certain man without strength in his feet was sitting, a cripple from his mother’s womb, who had never walked. 9 This man heard Paul speaking. Paul, observing him intently and seeing that he had faith to be healed, 10 said with a loud voice, “Stand up straight on your feet!” And he leaped and walked.
So was this done during the time of Christ's ministry on earth?
8 And in Lystra a certain man without strength in his feet was sitting, a cripple from his mother’s womb, who had never walked. 9 This man heard Paul speaking. Paul, observing him intently and seeing that he had faith to be healed, 10 said with a loud voice, “Stand up straight on your feet!” And he leaped and walked.
So was this done during the time of Christ's ministry on earth?
The thing is, the miracles of the bible were witnessed by thousands and done publicly and had undeniable physical evidence. They were not done in controlled or remote circumstances in most cases. They had many witnesses. I think often we confuse God's providence with a miracle. A miracle, biblically defined, is something that defies nature and is undeniably God (i.e. seas parting, legitimately crippled persons instantaneously recovering, undeniably dead men coming to life, burning bushes that are not consumed, 3 people thrown in a fiery furnace and not being consumed, etc.). This is not what we see today, only hear about. In a digital age, i would expect a bonafide miracle to be massively published throughout the world with huge, credible sources as witnesses to it. This simply isn't the case.
Praying for healing and someone being healed over time (either naturally or through medical means) is not a miracle, but a work of God's own will and providence. I am not opposed to miracles by no means, but we tend to label things that are not miracles as miracles, when in reality it is just an act of providence. More specifically, I believe the sign-gifts have ceased according to evidence in Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 13, early church consensus, biblical warnings of end-time deceptions and delusions, and lack of credible witnesses in modern times.
To say the sign gifts are still in full operation is to deny the sufficiency of scripture and leaves the canon open. This is a dangerous prospect as it is abused worldwide by the Benny Hinn's of the world, and in a very cruel fashion. The church is being overrun by a circus and this is the major cause why.
Praying for healing and someone being healed over time (either naturally or through medical means) is not a miracle, but a work of God's own will and providence. I am not opposed to miracles by no means, but we tend to label things that are not miracles as miracles, when in reality it is just an act of providence. More specifically, I believe the sign-gifts have ceased according to evidence in Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 13, early church consensus, biblical warnings of end-time deceptions and delusions, and lack of credible witnesses in modern times.
To say the sign gifts are still in full operation is to deny the sufficiency of scripture and leaves the canon open. This is a dangerous prospect as it is abused worldwide by the Benny Hinn's of the world, and in a very cruel fashion. The church is being overrun by a circus and this is the major cause why.