God did not establish the church!

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Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
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#1
The word church appears about a hundred times in the word. The translators wanted to convey the idea of a building, not the people. Ekklesia means called out ones. That's people called unto Christ, not stone edifices and cathedrals called unto Christ. How dumb can it get.
Because of this mis translation, untold damage has been done to the body of Christ. Buildings patterned after the pagan temples of old. A seated audience with a hierarchal priesthood.

Jesus removed stone from a top of stone of the Jerusalem church building in 70ad by Titus and a roman army. You'll note that He did not tell His disciples to start building church buildings with podiums, pulpits and hierarchy control freaks. Never happened. That was totally satans idea and there were no shortage of aspiring men to take the unholy task on.

This very hour most christians believe that a brick building is the church. If not then what's this language 'where do you go to church?' And 'I go to such and such church' and 'we are building a new and bigger church'. Hocus pocus and Barnum and bunkum.

God does not dwell in buildings made by hands, He dwells in us. We are His temple of residence. Remember, He destroyed the old ways of doing things along with Solomons idea of a building.

'Neither in this mountain church or in the church in Jerusalem shall men worship God,'He told the Samaritan woman.
'But they that would worship God will worship Him in spirit and in truth.' Is it any wonder that in our man made buildings, little Spirit and little truth can be detected?
 
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maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,261
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#2
The word church appears about a hundred times in the word. The translators wanted to convey the idea of a building, not the people. Ekklesia means called out ones. That's people called unto Christ, not stone edifices and cathedrals called unto Christ. How dumb can it get.
Because of this mis translation, untold damage has been done to the body of Christ. Buildings patterned after the pagan temples of old. A seated audience with a hierarchal priesthood.

Jesus removed stone from a top of stone of the Jerusalem church building in 70ad by Titus and a roman army. You'll note that He did not tell His disciples to start building church buildings with podiums, pulpits and hierarchy control freaks. Never happened. That was totally satans idea and there were no shortage of aspiring men to take the unholy task on.

This very hour most christians believe that a brick building is the church. If not then what's this language 'where do you go to church?' And 'I go to such and such church' and 'we are building a new and bigger church'. Hocus pocus and Barnum and bunkum.

God does not dwell in buildings made by hands, He dwells in us. We are His temple of residence. Remember, He destroyed the old ways of doing things along with Solomons idea of a building.

'Neither in this mountain church or in the church in Jerusalem shall men worship God,'He told the Samaritan woman.
'But they that would worship God will worship Him in spirit and in truth.' Is it any wonder that in our man made buildings, little Spirit and little truth can be detected?
You're starting with a very strong supposition about the intents of translators with nothing to back up your assertion.

Even in a modern dictionary you'll find that the word "church" has multiple meanings, and doesn't just mean a building.
You're drawing very strange conclusions.

It's not the fault of the translators if some readers are too stupid to understand a simple word.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
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#3
Doesn't take much then to sway dumb sheep...does it? Suppose satan figured that? It worked, didn't it?
 
May 15, 2013
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#4
Jesus didn't establish His kingdom. When He had enter Jerusalem which I believe that it was the day of the tabernacle because everyone has brought their branches for their little hut to sit down and dine with the lord to eat the fruits of their labor. But Jesus couldn't dine with them because it has turn into a den of thieves.

Judaism 101: Sukkot
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
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#5
But Jesus couldn't dine with them because it has turn into a den of thieves.

? but He did sit down to eat..

When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve.
And while they were eating, he said, “
Truly I tell you, one of you will betray me.
(Matthew 26:20-21)


and He indeed establishes His 'ekklesia' .. ?

For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

(Ephesians 2:18-22)
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#6
The word church appears about a hundred times in the word. The translators wanted to convey the idea of a building, not the people.
Hogwash.

(Why don't you tell us what you think, Elin.)
 

1joseph

Senior Member
Dec 14, 2014
590
12
18
#7
The word church appears about a hundred times in the word. The translators wanted to convey the idea of a building, not the people. Ekklesia means called out ones. That's people called unto Christ, not stone edifices and cathedrals called unto Christ. How dumb can it get.
Because of this mis translation, untold damage has been done to the body of Christ. Buildings patterned after the pagan temples of old. A seated audience with a hierarchal priesthood.

Jesus removed stone from a top of stone of the Jerusalem church building in 70ad by Titus and a roman army. You'll note that He did not tell His disciples to start building church buildings with podiums, pulpits and hierarchy control freaks. Never happened. That was totally satans idea and there were no shortage of aspiring men to take the unholy task on.

This very hour most christians believe that a brick building is the church. If not then what's this language 'where do you go to church?' And 'I go to such and such church' and 'we are building a new and bigger church'. Hocus pocus and Barnum and bunkum.

God does not dwell in buildings made by hands, He dwells in us. We are His temple of residence. Remember, He destroyed the old ways of doing things along with Solomons idea of a building.

'Neither in this mountain church or in the church in Jerusalem shall men worship God,'He told the Samaritan woman.
'But they that would worship God will worship Him in spirit and in truth.' Is it any wonder that in our man made buildings, little Spirit and little truth can be detected?
I know where you're coming from. I'm a Christian who hasn't attended "church" regularly in many years. I wear my belief and faith on my sleeve, so I am often asked, "Where do you go to church." I reply with something like, "I'm in church right now, sharing with you." I may follow up with, "I understand your question but I don't attend a 'church.' I have grown more in the Spirit since being away from the 'church,' but would never tell anyone not to go to church." (I only grew in him because I spent time reading his Word and talking and listening to him. And I certainly know that many people do grow while in church. I just didn't feel led by the Spirit to go, myself.) The conversation goes from there according to how the other person is responding.

Since I walk with the Lord each day references to him just naturally come out in my conversations. Once it's out there I stay in tune with how the other person is responding and if the holy Spirit is prompting me or not. If I do not feel the holy Spirit prompting me to continue speaking of him then I focus on whatever topic(s) are brought up. If I do feel him prompting then I continue with him in our conversation, knowing the Spirit is moving. When I first began doing this many years ago I have to say I was nervous and unsure of myself. But as I continued in it I saw how the holy Spirit was really the one speaking, not me, because I could see the positive effect on the person he was speaking to. Then I was able to relax and pretty much just put myself on cruise control and watch the Spirit work. I love watching him work!

So, even though I do not attend a church I do believe they serve a purpose in the holy Spirit's work. But, to me, most of what goes on in churches is not of the holy Spirit.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#8
I agree with much of the OP, but not the title. That's just heresy.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#9
You're starting with a very strong supposition about the intents of translators with nothing to back up your assertion.

Even in a modern dictionary you'll find that the word "church" has multiple meanings, and doesn't just mean a building.
You're drawing very strange conclusions.

It's not the fault of the translators if some readers are too stupid to understand a simple word.
He's correct. I don't have to look up the word to know that it means the body of believers and not buildings. God is not in buildings made with human hands.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#10
He's correct. I don't have to look up the word to know that it means the body of believers and not buildings. God is not in buildings made with human hands.
He also has a history of hating the organized church. Where two or three are gathered together I am there in the midst. Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as is the manner of some.

How does this edify the church? How does this help those who are new or weak in the Lord? How does this help the needy in Spirit and the poor, destitute, the hungry?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jun 4, 2014
1,849
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#11
He also has a history of hating the organized church. Where two or three are gathered together I am there in the midst. Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as is the manner of some.

How does this edify the church? How does this help those who are new or weak in the Lord? How does this help the needy in Spirit and the poor, destitute, the hungry?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
How can you give the answer to your own question and dismiss it? Where 2 or 3 are gathered in agreement, He is there. So that means all it takes is another person. This can and does happen everyday. Why do I have to go pay the bills of another man? That is the way of the nicolaitans.

You are deceived from top to bottom. The blind leading the blind in written programs of organized "worship".

Look around you. People are homeless and starving! Let's fix this first!The heads of all these denominations you all adhere to are millionaires! The way of Balaam!
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#12
Yet complaining about the Church? I've never seen this before. :p
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#13
How can you give the answer to your own question and dismiss it? Where 2 or 3 are gathered in agreement, He is there. So that means all it takes is another person. This can and does happen everyday. Why do I have to go pay the bills of another man? That is the way of the nicolaitans.

You are deceived from top to bottom. The blind leading the blind in written programs of organized "worship".

Look around you. People are homeless and starving! Let's fix this first!The heads of all these denominations you all adhere to are millionaires! The way of Balaam!
Sorry your understanding is very shallow.

Believers have fellowship together and with the Lord.

Your tone is such that you will be alone often.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Sep 16, 2014
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#14
He's correct. I don't have to look up the word to know that it means the body of believers and not buildings. God is not in buildings made with human hands.
Great. You nailed it first!

"Church" in the Greek means one thing, the assembly, in the case of Christians being coming togehter to adore Jesus the Christ sent by God. It never meant "building", The first two centuries of Christian believers meant worshiping the Lord in places like underground crypts of the dead where Jews wouldn't venture and discover them. They had no "church" buildings for centuries. Until Emperor Constantine they had no safe haven in public view.

The true Church is located in the hearts of believers.
 
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J

jeff_peacemkr

Guest
#15
after constantine, the ekklesia were murdered right and left, and Jewish faithful to Yahweh believers also, by the 'church'.
that wasn't an advance.
it was the enemy Jesus and Paul warned about so the ekklesia would understand when it happened.

it is still happening today. the brick and mortar churches are (for later description; not good!) killing the ekklesia all over the earth today. and have been for centuries.
and they have no been living the GOSPEL OF JESUS, nor honoring Yahweh the Creator nor honoring His Word.

yes, realizing the truth and stating it leads to being kicked out of all of man's groups. that is good. just exactly like Jesus.

as Jesus said would happen, so it has happened.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
2,987
1,014
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New Zealand
#16
church- ecclessia:

*called out assembly or congregation of saved baptised believers, covenanted together to carry out the great commission and commandment

This isn't the dictionary definition but the original Greek has it as a congregation or assembly.. and the New Testaments defines it as a New Testament christian assembly.

Local and visible.. but doesn't need a roof over their head.

'where two or three are gathered..' Matthew 18:20-- check the context. Context is about how church members are resolving sin issues (the sinning brother).
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
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#17
He also has a history of hating the organized church. Where two or three are gathered together I am there in the midst. Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as is the manner of some.

How does this edify the church? How does this help those who are new or weak in the Lord? How does this help the needy in Spirit and the poor, destitute, the hungry?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
You say I have a history of hating the church. Give me one example where I said that I hate God's people.
I hold a sincere Godly hatred for the traditions of men that cancel out Gods word there by hurting the body of Christ.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""for wolves in sheep's clothing which devour the sheep.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""for false prophets and false teachers whose only aim is to fill their coffers with the folks cash.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""for all the Diotrephes that lord it over His flock for a salary, stipends, a retirement plan, etc., etc..
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""for hirelings, charlatans, that feed themselves with the fat and clothe themselves with the wool!

Someone said that it was heresy that I said God did not establish a brick building as the church. Neither did He sanction the things I just listed and yet they are revered by most christians as gospel.
Someone said that my conclusions are going to hurt new believers. I submit that they'll suffer far more under falsehood than under truth. The truth can do what? Anybody? Jesus told the religious leaders of His day that they were all serpents.

Should He have kept His mouth shut for fear of discouraging new followers of Him? Paul warned about the religious serpents all day long. Maybe he should have kept his opinions to himself. After all ...some new converts may throw in the towel out of confusion.
Jesus never feared speaking the truth. Some even fell away at His words. Why? Because they didn't have the guts (a real want to) to seek after Him more fully. Therein lies the rub!

Ill wait for that one example where I said that I hate the body of Christ. I'll correct, exhort, and even rebuke, if need be, but that is out of genuine concern, not hate!
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
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#18
In 1604 King James commissioned a group of Hebrew and Greek scholars, under the lead of one, Richard Bancroft, to create an English version of the bible for the common folks. Bancroft, in cahoots with James, came up with 45 rules of translation.

The word church, which denotes the building with its clerical/laity construct already in place, was to be used in place of the word ekklesia which is congregation or assembly. There are 3 instances in Acts 20 where ekklesia was left as assembly.

James believed if 'no bishop, no king'. Bancroft was about to become the bishop of Cantebury, a controlling cleric in league with the state. James had a better control over the masses through the hierarchy of the church.

Other mistranslations were then in order so the controlling elite of the church could gain the obedience of the unwashed masses.

Example: Hebrews 13:17 reads 'Obey them that have the rule over you. Submit youselves unto them.....

To read that portion in the original Greek would be: Be persuaded by them that guide and teach you. Yield to their persuasion.

Go back and read the contrasts again..do you smell a skunk yet?

God did not sanction what we adoringly call 'church' today. We need to study .......rightly dividing the word of Truth.
orthotomeo: dividing: to handle correctly.
You say 'man twisted the scriptures'. Yep! Shore did! 'Twas prophesied! But we are told that we have need of no man to teach us but the Holy Spirit within will teach and show us all things. Throw in a hebrew and Greek concordance and we are then without excuse.
 
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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#19
Hebrews 12:15 ...lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you and thereby many be defiled.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
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#20
I just got done saying that. Anyone who challenges the status quo with the clear word of God may expect accusations.

Then was Jesus bitter? Was Paul? We're all the writers of letters bitter? I'm simply sounding what they warned about.
R we not to correct with the word when the word tells us to do so? If not, according to your stand, then why even bother to read the word.Why listen to teachers if we already have it perfect, no need for change or correction, or rebuke? Just turn the football game on and be done with it!