Lake Worth Florida Invocation

[Colorful]

[video=youtube;8PyyY1Z8fg0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PyyY1Z8fg0[/video]

This is the prayer that went down in the Lake Worth Florida City Council meeting:

Mother Earth, we gather today in your redeeming and glorious presence to invoke your eternal guidance in the universe, the original creator of all things. May the efforts of this council blend the righteousness of Allah with the all knowing wisdom of Satan. May Zeus, the great god of justice, grant us strength tonight. Jesus might forgive our shortcomings while Buddha enlightens us through his divine affection.


We praise you Krishna for the sanguine sacrifice that freed us all. After all, if almighty Thor is with us, who can ever be against us? And finally for the bounty of logic, reason and science, we simply thank the atheists, agnostics, humanists, who now account for one in five Americans and growing rapidly.


In closing. Let us above all, love one another, not to obtain mythical rewards for ourselves now, hereafter or based on superstitious threats of eternal damnation, but rather embrace secular-based principles of morality, and do good for goodness sake.


And so we pray, so what?

It left me with a series of questions and I'd love everyone's opinion.

1.) Considering freedom of speech and the right to pray at the City Council meeting, would you allow prayers like this to continue to go on so that Christian prayers, too, could be had there? Or would eliminating prayer from City Council meeting so that neither Christian prayers as well as the prayers similar to Lake Worth would be permitted? Would God rather us put up with prayers like Lake Worth so that we can continue to (at least a majority of the time) continue to pray to Him in these types of meetings?

2.) How do you personally feel about atheists and theists of other faiths having to be subjected to the Christian God all over the states in City Council meeting? To me, a prayer to my Creator, in the name of Jesus Christ, is very sacred and special to me. I can completely understand people NOT liking this prayer (because it isn't a prayer to the God of Israel), but doesn't this give us better perspective of what non-Christians go through?

3.) Do we not essentially do the same exact thing to atheists and people of other faiths when we pray to the God of Israel in most other City Council meetings throughout the states? We can't just simply say, "Well, the difference is our God is the one true God and theirs isn't!" as justification for doing it because I'm sure other faiths feel the same about their God(s). The government shouldn't pick winning Gods should they?

4.) What would be the negatives, if any, if we take (ALL) prayer to (ALL) God(s) out of our City Council meetings (or anything government related that isn't already forbidden)? Would this eliminate people's sensitivity (and rightfully so... our relationship with God ought to be sacred) towards being subjected to other God/Gods?

[Side note: I don't want to restrict people's opinions and responses, I just want to preemptively state that just because some (or even all if you believe) the founders of this nation were Christian, does little to warrant favoritism to our God, the God of Israel.]

 

[Colorful]

Don't all type at once!

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

This is the prayer that went down in the Lake Worth Florida City Council meeting... It left me with a series of questions and I'd love everyone's opinion.

1.) Considering freedom of speech and the right to pray at the City Council meeting, would you allow prayers like this to continue to go on so that Christian prayers, too, could be had there? Or would eliminating prayer from City Council meeting so that neither Christian prayers as well as the prayers similar to Lake Worth would be permitted? Would God rather us put up with prayers like Lake Worth so that we can continue to (at least a majority of the time) continue to pray to Him in these types of meetings?

Oh goodness, that's a good question. To eliminate prayer altogether would be an act of intolerance, and perhaps a violation of the first amendment. Personally? I would opt for the former: allow prayer of any kind. While this particular prayer seems to insist upon itself (not to mention appears intentionally snarky), it's their prerogative to express it.

2.) How do you personally feel about atheists and theists of other faiths having to be subjected to the Christian God all over the states in City Council meeting? To me, a prayer to my Creator, in the name of Jesus Christ, is very sacred and special to me. I can completely understand people NOT liking this prayer (because it isn't a prayer to the God of Israel), but doesn't this give us better perspective of what non-Christians go through?

Subjected to? That makes it sound like a punishment. I can see it as something of an eye opener; there's not much empathy these days. Still, I'm of the mind this prayer was deliberately composed to insult religion.

3.) Do we not essentially do the same exact thing to atheists and people of other faiths when we pray to the God of Israel in most other City Council meetings throughout the states? We can't just simply say, "Well, the difference is our God is the one true God and theirs isn't!" as justification for doing it because I'm sure other faiths feel the same about their God(s). The government shouldn't pick winning Gods should they?

Sshh, 'they're' listening...do you want your door busted down?!

4.) What would be the negatives, if any, if we take (ALL) prayer to (ALL) God(s) out of our City Council meetings (or anything government related that isn't already forbidden)? Would this eliminate people's sensitivity (and rightfully so... our relationship with God ought to be sacred) towards being subjected to other God/Gods?

This is already being seen to, slowly but surely. Our relationship with God = sacred? What exactly do you mean by that? I ask partially because you used the word subjected again, which has a negative undertone to it.

[Side note: I don't want to restrict people's opinions and responses, I just want to preemptively state that just because some (or even all if you believe) the founders of this nation were Christian, does little to warrant favoritism to our God, the God of Israel.]

There is a lot of hot debate on the subject of separation of church and state, but I don't see it as often as I'd expect to here, so I think you did well in making this thread, voicing your respect to others, and being respectful in your questioning.

Hopefully others see this and post!

 

[Colorful]

Oh goodness, that's a good question. To eliminate prayer altogether would be an act of intolerance, and perhaps a violation of the first amendment. Personally? I would opt for the former: allow prayer of any kind. While this particular prayer seems to insist upon itself (not to mention appears intentionally snarky), it's their prerogative to express it.



Subjected to? That makes it sound like a punishment. I can see it as something of an eye opener; there's not much empathy these days. Still, I'm of the mind this prayer was deliberately composed to insult religion.


Sshh, 'they're' listening...do you want your door busted down?!


This is already being seen to, slowly but surely. Our relationship with God = sacred? What exactly do you mean by that? I ask partially because you used the word subjected again, which has a negative undertone to it.


There is a lot of hot debate on the subject of separation of church and state, but I don't see it as often as I'd expect to here, so I think you did well in making this thread, voicing your respect to others, and being respectful in your questioning.

Hopefully others see this and post!

Thank you for your response! I really appreciate it!

About "subjected" to: For me personally, I don't take offense or even feel angered by this prayer nor would I walk out as some members of the Council did if I was there. I say "subjected" to because some people do have that "negative" undertone when put in a situation they don't care to participate to (you see several members of the Council leaving when they announce they are going to do the invocation). Likewise, I know atheists and non-Christian theists feel that same negative undertone when they either say prayers to the Christian God or even to saying the pledge of allegiance.

And yes, please, any and all readers, I'd love your opinions.

 

[crossnote]

It ain't Church, and most likely the politicians praying have no access to the true God through Jesus Christ...the only prayers that count because they get through to the true God.
Other groups praying will have as much success as the false prophets of Baal had before Elijah.

 

[JesusLives]

They lost me on praying to satan.....Really? Do I want to invite anything to do with satan into my life? I don't think so. Recently my husband who was my fiancée at the time and I worshipped in a Hindu Temple by mistake on a Sabbath and there were a bunch of idols representing deity's up front. With pews up against the walls lots of carpets (rugs) on the floor.

There was one older gentleman in the room and as I was walking into the room I noticed he did not have on any shoes so I asked him where we should put our shoes and he said outside the door so we promptly went and took our shoes off and returned. I explained it was our first time there and asked what we should do? He said pray before the deity and I asked is there a speaker he said no so then I asked do we meditate and he answered yes.

So we went and prayed, but we prayed to the living God and not to the idols and then went and sat down quietly for a while. While I sat there I was wondering and asking (God) what should I do next. I felt moved to offer the man a donation for his temple and to give him Christian literature that I carried in my purse with that donation. So I again approached him giving him the donation for his temple and saying these are for you handing him the literature which he took.

He then said a gift for you and we went up front where he offered us to drink a little green tea from our hands and then gave us each a piece of fruit and an Indian snack which we thanked him for and then left. As we were walking out I noticed that he was reading the literature I had given him.

Now I was in an area I was not familiar with and tourist had gotten the address of what we thought was a SDA church off the internet to go and worship, it was obviously wrong but who is to say that God did not set up this appointment to bring Jesus and the gift of salvation to that older gentleman that day? We did not worship the idols we prayed to God.

This prayer that the city council had I don't about that. Like I said they lost me on praying to satan that I don't think I could ever be able to tolerate politically correct or not......Elijah wasn't representing Baal that day He was representing God and a servant of God.... I think I would have to side that way myself.

I can't say I blame the folks for leaving the room as I might have been one of them, and then again if an atheist wanted to leave the room for a Christian pray then I would say be my guest nobody is stopping you. My 2 cents worth.

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

Thank you for your response! I really appreciate it!

About "subjected" to: For me personally, I don't take offense or even feel angered by this prayer nor would I walk out as some members of the Council did if I was there. I say "subjected" to because some people do have that "negative" undertone when put in a situation they don't care to participate to (you see several members of the Council leaving when they announce they are going to do the invocation). Likewise, I know atheists and non-Christian theists feel that same negative undertone when they either say prayers to the Christian God or even to saying the pledge of allegiance.

You bet!

Okay, that makes sense. I find intolerance intrinsically ironic. To each their own, of course. This subject reminds me of two passages from 'Life of Pi' by Yann Martel:

Atheists are my brothers and sisters of a different faith, and every word they speak speaks of faith. Like me, they go as far as the legs of reason will carry them -- and then they leap.

The pandit spoke first. "Mr. Patel, Piscine's piety is admirable. In these troubled times it's good to see a boy so keen on God. We all agree on that." The imam and the priest nodded. "But he can't be a Hindu, a Christian and a Muslim. It's impossible. He must choose."

"I don't think it's a crime, but I suppose you're right," Father replied.

The three murmured in agreement and looked heavenward, as did Father, whence they felt the decision must come. Mother looked at me.

A silence fell heavily on my shoulders.

"Hmmm, Piscine?" Mother nudged me. "How do you feel about the question?"

"Bapu Gandhi said, 'All religions are true.' I just want to love God," I blurted out, and looked down, red in the face.