Yes, RIGHTEOUSNESS comes through FAITH, but …

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A

AtonedFor

Guest
#1
.
Right now, I am mostly concerned about refuting “once saved, always saved” (OSAS).

Born-again Christians (BACs) are responsible for doing certain things to maintain
their salvation. When one is born-again, he/she has not received a free ticket to heaven!

Scripture indicates that salvation is a life-long co-operation with God,

which is a process I call “sanctification unto holiness”.

The recent thread,
“The BAC must endure in the faith to the end of life to be saved”
has about 15 verses that prove the thread title is true. And here’s another verse:

“… imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.” (Heb 6:12)

So, connected with this, we may say: If you lose your faith, you lose everything!
You lose your justification … you lose your righteousness … You lose your salvation!


The new believer initially receives the imputed righteousness of Jesus
But, read these verses with a continuing belief-faith in mind:
“his (the one who believes) faith is accounted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5)
“For with the heart one believes unto righteousness” (Romans 10:10)
the righteousness which is from God by faith” (Philippians 3:9)
“(Noah) became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.” (Heb 11:7)

What does “having faith” mean scripturally?
Intellectual faith? ... Faith mixed with works? ... What is "saving faith"?

The believer needs to discover his part in maintaining his righteous standing before God

“… whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.” (Acts 10:35)

“… we, having died to sins, might live for (the practicing of) righteousness” (1 Peter 2:24)

“… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

“… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7)

“But you, O man of God, flee these things (sins) and pursue righteousness” (1 Timothy 6:11)

“Pursue ... holiness, without which no one will see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14)

“All Scriptureis profitable for … instruction in (practicing) righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16)

••• “In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
Whoever does NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God” (1 John 3:10)

Paul warned these BACs: they have the CHOICE to be slaves of sin or slaves of obedience!
“(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness
… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness” (Romans 6:16-19)
3 times in 8 verses: Paul warns them that the wages of sin is eternal death (Romans 6:15-23).

“… so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life ...” (Romans 5:21)
Here we see that one’s grace hinges on one’s righteousness!
God’s grace remains in those who practice righteousness!


“Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:8-10)

Notice that righteousness is one of the fruits of the Spirit of the “children of light”.

A major part of MAINTAINING righteousness

"But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
(1 John 1:7—2:1)
Notice that BACs who “walk in the light” can be cleansed from all unrighteousness!
Notice that BACs who sin can call on their Advocate, Jesus Christ the righteous,
and confess and repent of their sin!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#2
Galatians chapters 1 and 3 refute Faith + works to gain, keep or facilitate salvation....

A gospel of a different KIND...no power to save or keep saved and is double cursed to hell!

NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to HIS MERCY has HE SAVED US (past tense)

In the grace you are, having been saved out of FAITH, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES it is the GIFT of GOD..NOT OF WORKS lest any man should BOAST.

He who believes on the son HAS EVERLASTING LIFE
HE WHO BELIEVES ON THE SON has ETERNAL LIFE
WHOSOEVER believes on HIM should not PERISH, but IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE

Your works for salvation will take you to a liquid deprived place with higher than normal temps.......!
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#3
Titus 1:16, "They profess that they know Yahweh, but by their works they deny Him--being abominable, disobedient, and to every righteous work, reprobate."

2 Timothy 3:5, "Having a form of holiness, but denying the authority of it--from such turn away!"

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Faith + no works = dead

Works + no faith = dead

We need faith and works, AND OUR FAITH HAS TO BE POINTED AT THE RIGHT DIRECTION
 
A

AVoice

Guest
#4
.
Right now, I am mostly concerned about refuting “once saved, always saved” (OSAS).

Born-again Christians (BACs) are responsible for doing certain things to maintain
their salvation. When one is born-again, he/she has not received a free ticket to heaven!

Scripture indicates that salvation is a life-long co-operation with God,

which is a process I call “sanctification unto holiness”.

The recent thread,
“The BAC must endure in the faith to the end of life to be saved”
has about 15 verses that prove the thread title is true. And here’s another verse:

“… imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.” (Heb 6:12)

So, connected with this, we may say: If you lose your faith, you lose everything!
You lose your justification … you lose your righteousness … You lose your salvation!


The new believer initially receives the imputed righteousness of Jesus
But, read these verses with a continuing belief-faith in mind:
“his (the one who believes) faith is accounted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5)
“For with the heart one believes unto righteousness” (Romans 10:10)
the righteousness which is from God by faith” (Philippians 3:9)
“(Noah) became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.” (Heb 11:7)

What does “having faith” mean scripturally?
Intellectual faith? ... Faith mixed with works? ... What is "saving faith"?

The believer needs to discover his part in maintaining his righteous standing before God

“… whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.” (Acts 10:35)

“… we, having died to sins, might live for (the practicing of) righteousness” (1 Peter 2:24)

“… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

“… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7)

“But you, O man of God, flee these things (sins) and pursue righteousness” (1 Timothy 6:11)

“Pursue ... holiness, without which no one will see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14)

“All Scriptureis profitable for … instruction in (practicing) righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16)

••• “In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
Whoever does NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God” (1 John 3:10)

Paul warned these BACs: they have the CHOICE to be slaves of sin or slaves of obedience!
“(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness
… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness” (Romans 6:16-19)
3 times in 8 verses: Paul warns them that the wages of sin is eternal death (Romans 6:15-23).

“… so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life ...” (Romans 5:21)
Here we see that one’s grace hinges on one’s righteousness!
God’s grace remains in those who practice righteousness!


“Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:8-10)

Notice that righteousness is one of the fruits of the Spirit of the “children of light”.

A major part of MAINTAINING righteousness

"But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
(1 John 1:7—2:1)
Notice that BACs who “walk in the light” can be cleansed from all unrighteousness!
Notice that BACs who sin can call on their Advocate, Jesus Christ the righteous,
and confess and repent of their sin!
It is refreshing to rarely come across someone with understanding. You use the same terminology I use: the need to maintain what has been given. I use the analogy of the garden. They did not have to make that garden. They were given it freely. Their blessing was to maintain it, something that would give them pleasure to continue enjoying what had been freely given. A BAC finds himself not desiring the evil he once desired. He only feels shame for those things of the past but mixed with a thanksgiving and love to God for having been forgiven freely and for having been given a new heart. That willful staying away from sins of the past and that thankfulness has to be maintained by continuing to yield to the Holy Spirit and denying self daily. In Romans 5 we see that grace reigns through righteousness. The righteousness that has been imputed is actual real righteousness, the result of grace entering and changing us. As per the description of what grace does in a person; Titus 2:11-14, Eph 2:1-3,5.
Your post was excellent, thank you.
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
#5
Galatians chapters 1 and 3 refute Faith + works to gain, keep or facilitate salvation....
People like you always spout a favorite verse or 2,
but neglect the verses I present, which outnumber yours 10 to 1.


Again, I need to present a thread about ...
ALL of Scripture must somehow line up and agree!

Again, it needs to be explained HOW this is possible!

Or, can you guess what the very unpopular answer will be?
 
May 15, 2013
4,307
27
0
#6
It takes great faith to love your enemies if God had told you to do so.
 
A

AVoice

Guest
#7
Your works for salvation will take you to a liquid deprived place with higher than normal temps.......!
So if anyone asks you if they want to be saved do they need to repent, then you better say no. If they ask if they need to pray, you better say no. You must tell them they are trying to earn salvation, it is a sin to try to earn salvation by praying or repenting. You better tell them trying to mix repentance or prayer with salvation will take them to a place that has higher than normal temperatures.
 
J

jeff_peacemkr

Guest
#8
[h=3]Revelation 20 Commentary - The Judgment of the Dead ...[/h]They will die forever in the lake of fire. John has already told us who they are: "the inhabitants of the earth" who worshiped the beast and the dragon (13:8; 17:8).

just for comparison. those who die forever in the lake of fire..... (most of the population on earth according to Revelation)...
what COULD save any of them ???? --- in the same book- Revelation- who, if anybody, is saved from dying forever in the lake of fire ? one, two, 144,000, twelve ??? anyone? noone?

from Revelation. Who is saved ? How? -> could they save, or tell others before the others are dead, to save them from the lake of fire ?

again, just for comparison... and from what God's Word says, since He decides who goes in the lake and who don't.

to put this in perspective, as it is in a thread 'faith' or/and 'works' , kinda. were the ones Revelation talks about who die forever in the lake of fire, lacking faith? were they lacking works ? none of these, one of these, or both ?
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
#9
They will die forever in the lake of fire. John has already told us who they are:
"the inhabitants of the earth" who worshiped the beast and the dragon (13:8; 17:8).
Gee, I thought I had the best verse! Darn it anyway.

Revelation 21:
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Heads Up ... these verses could easily be referring to you, o peaceable one!

Another Heads Up ...
"the cowardly" could also be referring to you
-- if you run away from the horrific persecution of the antichrist,
which will be coming soon to a theater (er, street) near you
or
-- if you cave in and take the mark of the beast
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#10
So if anyone asks you if they want to be saved do they need to repent, then you better say no. If they ask if they need to pray, you better say no. You must tell them they are trying to earn salvation, it is a sin to try to earn salvation by praying or repenting. You better tell them trying to mix repentance or prayer with salvation will take them to a place that has higher than normal temperatures.
No offence, but this is just ignorance at best! Come back when you have something to say that is based on fact!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#11
People like you always spout a favorite verse or 2,
but neglect the verses I present, which outnumber yours 10 to 1.


Again, I need to present a thread about ...
ALL of Scripture must somehow line up and agree!

Again, it needs to be explained HOW this is possible!

Or, can you guess what the very unpopular answer will be?
Go argue with Paul as he wrote almost half of the N.T.....exactly how much did your write? Let me guess......NONE OF IT!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Galatians chapters 1 and 3 refutes Faith + works to gain, keep or facilitate salvation....
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
#12

This thread concerning the need to "practice righteousness"
was posted at Sophia's request, but her interest seems to have gone bye-bye!
 
Mar 28, 2014
4,300
31
0
#13
Galatians chapters 1 and 3 refute Faith + works to gain, keep or facilitate salvation....

A gospel of a different KIND...no power to save or keep saved and is double cursed to hell!

NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to HIS MERCY has HE SAVED US (past tense)

In the grace you are, having been saved out of FAITH, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES it is the GIFT of GOD..NOT OF WORKS lest any man should BOAST.

He who believes on the son HAS EVERLASTING LIFE
HE WHO BELIEVES ON THE SON has ETERNAL LIFE
WHOSOEVER believes on HIM should not PERISH, but IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE

Your works for salvation will take you to a liquid deprived place with higher than normal temps.......!

you still do not understand there is works of the law and works of faith...faith without works is dead.....He who believes on the son HAS EVERLASTING LIFE......
according to you devils have eternal life

James 2:19


Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#14
you still do not understand there is works of the law and works of faith...faith without works is dead.....He who believes on the son HAS EVERLASTING LIFE......
according to you devils have eternal life

James 2:19


Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Look NOBIRTH, your twist of scripture and what I say is evident to all.......it says noting about the devils believing in JESUS and having faith in what he has done.....so...go learn a little more and be born again and then you can name yourself NEWBIRTH rightfully!
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#15
Works are part of the fruit. God would rather us have fruits of the Spirit. Anyone can say they keep law, just like Pharisees boasted. But, fruits of the Spirit are a different thing and the law cannot and will not produce the fruit.

If any tree that bears bad fruit or no fruit shall be pruned and cast into the fire. So how do we produce good fruit? we can't. unless our faith is firmly placed in Christ and Him crucified. Then The Holy Spirit will work in us and through us producing good fruit, satisfying James statement that we must be doer's of the word. with our own willpower we will not be doer's only talkers or lip service. There is no other way.
 
Mar 28, 2014
4,300
31
0
#16
Look NOBIRTH, your twist of scripture and what I say is evident to all.......it says noting about the devils believing in JESUS and having faith in what he has done.....so...go learn a little more and be born again and then you can name yourself NEWBIRTH rightfully!
where is scripture twisted? you think devils don't know what Jesus did ?...they were there...they know exactly what took place...that is why they believe and tremble...you believe and do nothing....faith without works....devils have one up on you ...they tremble....you do nothing....faith without works


you still do not understand there is works of the law and works of faith...faith without works is dead.....He who believes on the son HAS EVERLASTING LIFE......
according to you devils have eternal life

James 2:19


Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
 
A

AVoice

Guest
#17
No offence, but this is just ignorance at best! Come back when you have something to say that is based on fact!
Repentance is a work. Then if we are not saved by works (as Eph 2:8,9 are taken out of context) then repentance cannot be a requirement. Only faith, no requirement to repent or pray or anything right?
Either accept that works are required, such as repentance and prayer, or stop taking Eph 2:8,9 out of context whereby it is asserted wrongfully that works do not have anything to do with being able to receive eternal life at the very end.
As shown in Matt 25, what people (Christians) did while alive determined where they went. Some will go to hell because their actions were not in line with abiding in Christ.
Will you also deny this?
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
175
63
35
#18
you still do not understand there is works of the law and works of faith...faith without works is dead.....He who believes on the son HAS EVERLASTING LIFE......
according to you devils have eternal life

James 2:19


Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
The fallen angels were not given a savior. Christ did not die for Satan, he died for us. We are given a way out of Gods wrath, it is clear satan does not. Why do you think they are angry, and coming to murder us?

Demons believe because they have experienced Him first hand. We are constantly being deceived by satan and by other men. I believe that that was written to remind us that both satan actually does fear God, and to remind us that merely believing isnt enough, that you do have to accept His will as yours. But we are not angels, and no where does the bible say they were given a savior. Only we were given one.

Righteousness comes from faith in the One who the world and fallen angels hidden from sight are trying to pull us away from. But Christ did say we have to accept His will, the will of God, to be saved.

But righteousness comes through faith. No man is righteous, God makes us so.
And having true faith means not refusing His will. For example, being gay and calling it okay, while saying you believe in God. Its not works, its faith that God knows whats best :3
 

1joseph

Senior Member
Dec 14, 2014
590
12
18
#19
Repentance is a work. Then if we are not saved by works (as Eph 2:8,9 are taken out of context) then repentance cannot be a requirement. Only faith, no requirement to repent or pray or anything right?
Either accept that works are required, such as repentance and prayer, or stop taking Eph 2:8,9 out of context whereby it is asserted wrongfully that works do not have anything to do with being able to receive eternal life at the very end.
As shown in Matt 25, what people (Christians) did while alive determined where they went. Some will go to hell because their actions were not in line with abiding in Christ.
Will you also deny this?
Originally Posted by AVoice So if anyone asks you if they want to be saved do they need to repent, then you better say no. If they ask if they need to pray, you better say no. You must tell them they are trying to earn salvation, it is a sin to try to earn salvation by praying or repenting. You better tell them trying to mix repentance or prayer with salvation will take them to a place that has higher than normal temperatures.

AVoice, Repentance and prayer are not works. Work is physical action. Repentance and prayer are actions from the heart and mind, not the physical body.


  • Prayer: Speaking to/with God, aloud or in thought: (for a Christian, like yourself: to God, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) Without prayer there is no relationship with God.
  • Repentance: asking God for forgiveness of your sin(s). Without repentance there can be no salvation.

To simply say, "I have faith (believe) that He is God is not enough for salvation. Do not Satan and the fallen angels believe he is God? They know so. According to your thinking they would have salvation and be allowed back into heaven---into the presence of God's light.
 
T

The_highwayman

Guest
#20
.
Right now, I am mostly concerned about refuting “once saved, always saved” (OSAS).

Born-again Christians (BACs) are responsible for doing certain things to maintain
their salvation. When one is born-again, he/she has not received a free ticket to heaven!

Scripture indicates that salvation is a life-long co-operation with God,

which is a process I call “sanctification unto holiness”.

The recent thread,
“The BAC must endure in the faith to the end of life to be saved”
has about 15 verses that prove the thread title is true. And here’s another verse:

“… imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.” (Heb 6:12)

So, connected with this, we may say: If you lose your faith, you lose everything!
You lose your justification … you lose your righteousness … You lose your salvation!


The new believer initially receives the imputed righteousness of Jesus
But, read these verses with a continuing belief-faith in mind:
“his (the one who believes) faith is accounted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5)
“For with the heart one believes unto righteousness” (Romans 10:10)
the righteousness which is from God by faith” (Philippians 3:9)
“(Noah) became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.” (Heb 11:7)

What does “having faith” mean scripturally?
Intellectual faith? ... Faith mixed with works? ... What is "saving faith"?

The believer needs to discover his part in maintaining his righteous standing before God

“… whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.” (Acts 10:35)

“… we, having died to sins, might live for (the practicing of) righteousness” (1 Peter 2:24)

“… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

“… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7)

“But you, O man of God, flee these things (sins) and pursue righteousness” (1 Timothy 6:11)

“Pursue ... holiness, without which no one will see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14)

“All Scriptureis profitable for … instruction in (practicing) righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16)

••• “In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
Whoever does NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God” (1 John 3:10)

Paul warned these BACs: they have the CHOICE to be slaves of sin or slaves of obedience!
“(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness
… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness” (Romans 6:16-19)
3 times in 8 verses: Paul warns them that the wages of sin is eternal death (Romans 6:15-23).

“… so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life ...” (Romans 5:21)
Here we see that one’s grace hinges on one’s righteousness!
God’s grace remains in those who practice righteousness!


“Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:8-10)

Notice that righteousness is one of the fruits of the Spirit of the “children of light”.

A major part of MAINTAINING righteousness

"But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
(1 John 1:7—2:1)
Notice that BACs who “walk in the light” can be cleansed from all unrighteousness!
Notice that BACs who sin can call on their Advocate, Jesus Christ the righteous,
and confess and repent of their sin!
There is no BUT....you were made righteous at the cross, 2 Cor 5.21, you accept righteousness through faith given by the grace of God.

Righteousness is not personal perfromance, it is position that never changes, no matter what you do.

Salvation is not righteousness.