The doctrine I don't want to believe-eternal fire

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Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,177
2,539
113
#1
So as any true person who studies scripture and desires to know and the learn the truth from God you have to be open minded and be a teachable child and have to be willing to not just throw down what you thought you knew but be willing to accept what you don't want to believe.

The debate on eternal damnation has popped up here and there lately, many say that a loving father such as God would never make someone suffer for eternity. I myself did not want to believe this and I still don't, I do not wish that any person would have to endure the fires of all for all eternity but I also understand that just because I don't want to believe it just because it doesn't seem right or fair to me doesn't matter for out thoughts are not his thoughts and he is a righteous and fair God.

True enough he is a very loving father but he is not a tame God he does have a righteous anger and judgement. He is not a teddy bear and is to be feared as well as adored. I was reading mathew today not even sure what I was looking for when I came across mathew 25:45-46 which states: then he will answer them saying assuredly I say to you in as much as you did not do it unto the least of these you did not do it to me and these will go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into eternal life. The word everlasting caught my attention and I said to myself well the nkjv says everlasting I wonder what the niv says? and the niv said eternal and the new living translation also says eternal. but I never make my interpretation from one scripture alone so I searched the rest of the word and here is what I found concerning the matter.

Daniel 12:1-2

At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt

Matthew 25:31-46

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” . . . Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. . . . And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


2 Thessalonians 1:5-10

This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering—since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.


Jude 7

Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.


So As I read and found these the scriptures appear to be very clear on an eternal fire or eternal suffering or eternal punishment, and I read from different translations and they all say the same thing. So yes I know it seems unfair to some I know that to some they cannot see a loving Father who throws ppl into eternal fire and sadly it is this very subject that repels many ppl from following God and even turns some into an atheist but we also have to remember that there are many things we do not and may never understand about God. Yes he is a very tender and loving God but at the same time is a mighty God who hates sin and judges with a fair righteous and mighty hammer. As I said before he is not a teddy bear and is not a tame God
 
Last edited:
Nov 30, 2012
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#2
We don't want to believe it, but it is the only one that makes sense and truly fulfills God's justice. For infinite debt and infinite crime the punishment can only be infinite. Take no pleasure in it, but glorify at the God of Justice and Mercy who even thought it wise to make a way for us to escape the fire.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#3
You forgot....

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosever recieveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstones.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15 And death and HELL were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And WHOSOEVER was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
#4
... the scriptures appear to be very clear on an eternal fire or eternal suffering or eternal punishment, and I read from different translations and they all say the same thing.
Teachers have always said that Jesus talked more about Hell than He talked about Heaven,
but I cannot vouch for that ... because I've never gone through the gospels and counted them.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#5
The thing we must realize though is that in some of the scriptures we look at is referring to the punishment some face will be eternal and last forever, others are just saying that the fires or place of punishment last forever not all who goes there.

We can see this in other scriptures were it says that people who are sent to eternal punishment are judged by their works, and punished as such. If they all burned for eternity they would all face the same punishment.
Then Lord Jesus Himself said that some will be beaten ( punished ) more than others, and even a disobedient servant ( hearer but not a doer/goat ) will be placed with the unbelievers to be punished and will be punished more then somebody who never believed. ( Luke 12 )

Then we have Malachi 4:3 where it says we will walk on the ashes of those who were burnt up, showing that the punishment was a eternal punishment. Meaning there spirit will not exist anymore, not even in punishment.


Just like believers get different rewards for how obedient they were, unbelievers and the disobedient will be given different lengths of punishment......
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#6
Hell was not created for man but for the devil and his angels. Mat 25:41

Gods wrath is upon sin not upon men. If man will not give up his sin he will receive the wrath of God upon sin. This will because of the nature of God be an eternal destruction.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God. Gods wrath burns white hot on sin, all sin. According to mans reasoning there are different levels of hell and when I consider the popes and other apostates who knowingly lead souls into hell I'm inclined to agree but really any level is so terrible I cannot imagine it makes any difference.

One of the most severe torments of hell is the complete separation from God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#7
Hell was not created for man but for the devil and his angels. Mat 25:41

Gods wrath is upon sin not upon men. If man will not give up his sin he will receive the wrath of God upon sin. This will because of the nature of God be an eternal destruction.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God. Gods wrath burns white hot on sin, all sin. According to mans reasoning there are different levels of hell and when I consider the popes and other apostates who knowingly lead souls into hell I'm inclined to agree but really any level is so terrible I cannot imagine it makes any difference.

One of the most severe torments of hell is the complete separation from God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes, and like I said by using Luke 12 Jesus clearly says in this chapter about how some people will get punished more then another, and the thing that people really don't like about this chapter is it even says if you believe in Him ( mere belief ) but are a disobedient servants that continues to serve themselves ( fleshly sin ) and not serve Him will also be given a place in punishment with the unbelievers.
He says that a person who never believed in Him will be punished less then somebody who did, yet still refused to be obedient to Him.
So this goes to tell me that if a person lived a good life, but never believed in Him will be burned up immediately.
But a person who know of Him, and continued to do their evil sinful deeds over and over again will face a long punishment.
Then those as the man of sin and false prophet will burn ( punished ) for eternity as the scripture says.....
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#8
Yes, and like I said by using Luke 12 Jesus clearly says in this chapter about how some people will get punished more then another, and the thing that people really don't like about this chapter is it even says if you believe in Him ( mere belief ) but are a disobedient servants that continues to serve themselves ( fleshly sin ) and not serve Him will also be given a place in punishment with the unbelievers.
He says that a person who never believed in Him will be punished less then somebody who did, yet still refused to be obedient to Him.
So this goes to tell me that if a person lived a good life, but never believed in Him will be burned up immediately.
But a person who know of Him, and continued to do their evil sinful deeds over and over again will face a long punishment.
Then those as the man of sin and false prophet will burn ( punished ) for eternity as the scripture says.....
You always find a way to complicate a simple truth by adding to it things that are not so. Saved is saved and saved forever. Christ is the Servant of the saved. Christ constantly ministers to us our salvation.

Hell remains the domain of the diabolical one who constantly rejects God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
216
63
#9
Teachers have always said that Jesus talked more about Hell than He talked about Heaven,
but I cannot vouch for that ... because I've never gone through the gospels and counted them.
Very much so.
My guess?--a warning is much more of an important issue for a loving God, than explaining a gift?
I don't think with our current human flawed thinking ,will ever begin to understand or grasp a punishment so final and sad.
He is just- and I trust.

*Commas are are friend brother Blain.:D*
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,177
2,539
113
#10
The thing we must realize though is that in some of the scriptures we look at is referring to the punishment some face will be eternal and last forever, others are just saying that the fires or place of punishment last forever not all who goes there.

We can see this in other scriptures were it says that people who are sent to eternal punishment are judged by their works, and punished as such. If they all burned for eternity they would all face the same punishment.
Then Lord Jesus Himself said that some will be beaten ( punished ) more than others, and even a disobedient servant ( hearer but not a doer/goat ) will be placed with the unbelievers to be punished and will be punished more then somebody who never believed. ( Luke 12 )

Then we have Malachi 4:3 where it says we will walk on the ashes of those who were burnt up, showing that the punishment was a eternal punishment. Meaning there spirit will not exist anymore, not even in punishment.


Just like believers get different rewards for how obedient they were, unbelievers and the disobedient will be given different lengths of punishment......
I think you misunderstand. Yes it is true that there will be some whose punishment in hell is less than others and I would know because I have been to hell. I saw some ppl who were being thrown into the lake of fire while others were not but were punished in a different way. The scriptures clearly say hell is eternal but just because it is eternal doesn't mean that since its eternity the punishment is the same.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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#11
Teachers have always said that Jesus talked more about Hell than He talked about Heaven,
but I cannot vouch for that ... because I've never gone through the gospels and counted them.
If that captures your attention then probably you should read it through to verify.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,261
2,386
113
#12
I think you misunderstand. Yes it is true that there will be some whose punishment in hell is less than others and I would know because I have been to hell. I saw some ppl who were being thrown into the lake of fire while others were not but were punished in a different way. The scriptures clearly say hell is eternal but just because it is eternal doesn't mean that since its eternity the punishment is the same.
Blain,

You really need to stop this.

You say angels visit you all the time, take you to heaven, take you up in the rapture, tell you this, tell you that, and now you've been on little excursion trips to hell... all of these completely ridiculous things.

You've also admitted you have severe brain damage, and you're on 9 different kinds of medication.
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
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#13
The thing we must realize though is that in some of the scriptures we look at is referring to the punishment some face will be eternal and last forever, others are just saying that the fires or place of punishment last forever not all who goes there.

We can see this in other scriptures were it says that people who are sent to eternal punishment are judged by their works, and punished as such. If they all burned for eternity they would all face the same punishment.
Then Lord Jesus Himself said that some will be beaten ( punished ) more than others, and even a disobedient servant ( hearer but not a doer/goat ) will be placed with the unbelievers to be punished and will be punished more then somebody who never believed. ( Luke 12 )

Then we have Malachi 4:3 where it says we will walk on the ashes of those who were burnt up, showing that the punishment was a eternal punishment. Meaning there spirit will not exist anymore, not even in punishment.


Just like believers get different rewards for how obedient they were, unbelievers and the disobedient will be given different lengths of punishment......
So where is "temporal" judgment described in the Bible? What is the precedent of anyone condemned to any degree of punishment in Hell coming back into God's fold to enjoy eternal bliss?
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
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#14
So this goes to tell me that if a person lived a good life, but never believed in Him will be burned up immediately.
But a person who know of Him, and continued to do their evil sinful deeds over and over again will face a long punishment.
Then those as the man of sin and false prophet will burn ( punished ) for eternity as the scripture says.....
The works,regardless of self-perceived value, will be burned up, but not the spirit of the foul-worker.
 
S

sveinen

Guest
#15
High Meets... choices, choices, outcome, outcome..
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,177
2,539
113
#16
Blain,

You really need to stop this.

You say angels visit you all the time, take you to heaven, take you up in the rapture, tell you this, tell you that, and now you've been on little excursion trips to hell... all of these completely ridiculous things.

You've also admitted you have severe brain damage, and you're on 9 different kinds of medication.
for the record an angel only visited me once and what you say is ridiculous could be the very thing someone here needed to read. God knows of my brain damage and knows of my medicine but more than once I have seen that even with all my physical and fleshly weaknesses such as you say he has used his spirit to replace. God is not limited to my damaged body. Do you know how bad my memory is? I can barely even rememeer how to do simple math I can't remember last Christmas even but I can remember every scripture I ever read I can remember every encounter I have had with the Lord. I have said before and I will say it again I am very weak in the ways of the world, I can't even remember to take my shots and have to be treated like a baby but I have always said that whatever ways I am weak in the world the Lord made me strong in his.


When I tell of my experiences my dreams and my visions I am attacked by many ppl but these dreams and visions these supernatural experiences are not to glorify me or make me seem special they are glorify God they are to be him speaking to me and then him speaking through these experiences to someone else here in cc. why exactly do you think this is ridiculous? do you not think God is the same today as he was yesterday? does he not still heal the sick? perform miracles? does he not still show dreams and visions as it was predicted when the scriptures say your young men will dream dreams and your old men shall see visions?
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
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#17
You always find a way to complicate a simple truth by adding to it things that are not so. Saved is saved and saved forever. Christ is the Servant of the saved. Christ constantly ministers to us our salvation.

Hell remains the domain of the diabolical one who constantly rejects God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I would add to that membership all the unrepentant by virtue of 1 John 3:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#18
So where is "temporal" judgment described in the Bible? What is the precedent of anyone condemned to any degree of punishment in Hell coming back into God's fold to enjoy eternal bliss?

I gave you two places in the bible that shows that some will be burnt up completely, including the spirit. For it says we will walk on their ashes, this is symbolic that nothing of them will remain.
In Luke 12 I gave shows clearly that unbelievers and the disobedient will face different amounts of punishment over others determining how they lived.
And when it comes to the believers their obedience by there actions is still judged to determine rewards that are given.
( 1 Corinthians 3 )
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#19
Yes, and like I said by using Luke 12 Jesus clearly says in this chapter about how some people will get punished more then another, and the thing that people really don't like about this chapter is it even says if you believe in Him ( mere belief ) but are a disobedient servants that continues to serve themselves ( fleshly sin ) and not serve Him will also be given a place in punishment with the unbelievers.
He says that a person who never believed in Him will be punished less then somebody who did, yet still refused to be obedient to Him.
So this goes to tell me that if a person lived a good life, but never believed in Him will be burned up immediately.
But a person who know of Him, and continued to do their evil sinful deeds over and over again will face a long punishment.
Then those as the man of sin and false prophet will burn ( punished ) for eternity as the scripture says.....

where do you get this stuff?

Hell is hell is hell.. who suffers more is who has an attitude, If I know I deserve it (in unbelief) I will suffer the same, yet be in lesser torment than those who had Gods truth in their hands, were so close to accepting it, but in the end decided he did not want it,, and find out that he was wrong.

to him it will be more torment, because he had Gods salvation on the tip of his fingers and let it go .

no place in scripture does it says ones life will be snuffed out completely. God made us eternal beings, we will be eternal. where we spend is up to how we react to the gospel.

we recieve it and trust it, we will be with God, we reject it, we will be apart from God (which is hell)
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
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#20
I think you misunderstand. Yes it is true that there will be some whose punishment in hell is less than others and I would know because I have been to hell. I saw some ppl who were being thrown into the lake of fire while others were not but were punished in a different way. The scriptures clearly say hell is eternal but just because it is eternal doesn't mean that since its eternity the punishment is the same.
I agree. Our JUST God could not lump a group of people that never heard the gospel of Christ in with those who heard and rejected it. But God inspired Paul to warn about the function of CONSCIENCE in a man, which will be examined to determine one's eternal sentence in the absence of amount of gospel received.