Which Commandments?

[john832]

so do you believe the law still condemns you? yes or no?

Don't even start, I have said that over and over and over. Yes the Law condemns us when we break it. That is what grace is about, free, unearned, undeserved forgiveness for BREAKING that Law. So, because I believe that sin is the breaking of the Law, and that paying the penalty for my sins required the DEATH of Christ, it is very important for me to strive NOT to break the Law.

I do and when I do, I go to God in humble repentance, ask for the forgiveness of my sins (breaking the Law) and then am washed clean again by the sacrifice of Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't even start, I have said that over and over and over. Yes the Law condemns us when we break it. That is what grace is about, free, unearned, undeserved forgiveness for BREAKING that Law. So, because I believe that sin is the breaking of the Law, and that paying the penalty for my sins required the DEATH of Christ, it is very important for me to strive NOT to break the Law.

Strive, thats your own power. Which should scare you. But that is not even the point I am trying to make.

That is all well and good. But do you not see that any person you look at, you are just as cursed as they are by the law? it does not matter who it is, and what they have done? Can you admit that?

I do and when I do, I go to God in humble repentance, ask for the forgiveness of my sins (breaking the Law) and then am washed clean again by the sacrifice of Christ.

So you lose salvation, then get saved again, lose salvation, then get saved again. when does it all end? When does God say enough is enough, I am sick of saving you over and over, you think you can go out and do as you wish, just because you come to me and say your sorry?

So your salvation is not based on the blood of Christ, but on how well you are at KNOWING everytime you sin, and then being able to come to God and ask for forgiveness.?

is that not the power of self to salvation, and not the power of God, who removed the curse from us, thus once the schoolmaster did its job, we are no longer under the schoolmaster (curse)?

 

[Hizikyah]

You are?

So you believe that your salvation is secure in the blood of the lamb and can never be lost?

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."

1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."

1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

so your not justified freely by the grace of God? and you claim you are not trying to save yourself.

Salvation to you is not a gift of God, but a reward for good works. even though the law condemns you.

thanks, you just proved something, The law has not done its job in you, Because you do not agree with God that the law still curses you.

Yes everyone will be judged on what they do.

a child of God will be judged at the bema seat, And recieve reward, or suffer loss (yet still be saved)

the non believer will be judged at the great white throne, and be cast to outer darkness because they have rejected the gospel of Christ. All their good deeds will be for nought!

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

simple. simply, "turn to Yhvh, for His kingdom is at hand" (i.e. repent , and be immersed in Yeshua).

after repenting, so simple then, yet with tribulation on earth,

the instructions of Yhvh haven't evaporated.

after repenting and being immersed in Yeshua, continue to follow Him and to do as He says (HE IS ALIVE !) and IT IS WRITTEN. (best).

not, repent and be immersed and you shall be saved, then party and do what is right in your own eyes.

obey Yhvh no matter what condition , no matter what time, no matter anything else,

because once in the grave, nothing can be done , no work, no praise, no door of salvation .....

Yeshua is the door of life, the door to the Father.

keep it simple. and people everywhere still mess up and die in their sin. Yhvh did all that was necessary, HE provided the Way ... a few find it....

yet again,

If you have not come to God, and admitted you have failed, are failing, and will continue to fail in the just requirment of the law.

These things will give you great blessing on earth, may even prolong your life. But will do NOTHING to help you get to heaven.

what good is it if a man or woman obey God on earth, is blessed on earth, and prolongs his life on earth because he did not run the redlight, or stand in front of a train. yet spends eternity in hell, because he has not come to God and cried out for his mercy? because you have not admited.

1. There is non good but God (according to the law)
2. That anyone is who does not obey ALL THE THINGS WRITTEN IN THE LAW, are under a curse.?

 

[Hizikyah]

So I posted this:

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."

1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

and you replied with this... you dont understand those do you? How could you accuse me of bad doctrine when I posted 3 VERSES?

so your not justified freely by the grace of God? and you claim you are not trying to save yourself.

Salvation to you is not a gift of God, but a reward for good works. even though the law condemns you.

thanks, you just proved something, The law has not done its job in you, Because you do not agree with God that the law still curses you.

Yes everyone will be judged on what they do.

a child of God will be judged at the bema seat, And recieve reward, or suffer loss (yet still be saved)

the non believer will be judged at the great white throne, and be cast to outer darkness because they have rejected the gospel of Christ. All their good deeds will be for nought!

John 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

 

[john832]

Strive, thats your own power. Which should scare you. But that is not even the point I am trying to make.

/quote]

Oh no, that does not scare me at all...

Christ said this...

Luk 13:24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Oh my, there is that dirty word.

Paul put it this way...

Php 3:13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,
Php 3:14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

I notice that nowhere in the New Testament does it EVER say, oh just drift along and don't really try, after all, if you try, you are doing it on your own power.

What it does say is this...

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Notice it doesn't say just drift along, it says to FIGHT the GOOD FIGHT.

What really would scare me is the day that I became laissez-faire and said to myself don't worry, you have it made. Oh wait, Christ gave a parable about that, didn't He?

Luk 12:16 Then He spoke a parable to them, saying: "The ground of a certain rich man yielded plentifully.
Luk 12:17 And he thought within himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no room to store my crops?'
Luk 12:18 So he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build greater, and there I will store all my crops and my goods.
Luk 12:19 And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take your ease; eat, drink, and be merry." '
Luk 12:20 But God said to him, 'Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?'
Luk 12:21 "So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God."

Uh, I know that you know this is not a parable about agriculture.

 

[Hizikyah]

simple. simply, "turn to Yhvh, for His kingdom is at hand" (i.e. repent , and be immersed in Yeshua).

after repenting, so simple then, yet with tribulation on earth,

the instructions of Yhvh haven't evaporated.

after repenting and being immersed in Yeshua, continue to follow Him and to do as He says (HE IS ALIVE !) and IT IS WRITTEN. (best).

not, repent and be immersed and you shall be saved, then party and do what is right in your own eyes.

obey Yhvh no matter what condition , no matter what time, no matter anything else,

because once in the grave, nothing can be done , no work, no praise, no door of salvation .....

Yeshua is the door of life, the door to the Father.

keep it simple. and people everywhere still mess up and die in their sin. Yhvh did all that was necessary, HE provided the Way ... a few find it....

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Strive, thats your own power. Which should scare you. But that is not even the point I am trying to make.


Oh no, that does not scare me at all...

Christ said this...

Luk 13:24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

lol. so why then are you trying to enter by the wide gate, and have a gospel that 90 % of the world has, strive to obeg Gods commands, and if you fail, ask god for forgiveness. and he will save you?

Oh my, there is that dirty word.

Paul put it this way...

Php 3:13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,
Php 3:14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

I notice that nowhere in the New Testament does it EVER say, oh just drift along and don't really try, after all, if you try, you are doing it on your own power.

What it does say is this...

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Notice it doesn't say just drift along, it says to FIGHT the GOOD FIGHT.

What really would scare me is the day that I became laissez-faire and said to myself don't worry, you have it made. Oh wait, Christ gave a parable about that, didn't He?

Luk 12:16 Then He spoke a parable to them, saying: "The ground of a certain rich man yielded plentifully.
Luk 12:17 And he thought within himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no room to store my crops?'
Luk 12:18 So he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build greater, and there I will store all my crops and my goods.
Luk 12:19 And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take your ease; eat, drink, and be merry." '
Luk 12:20 But God said to him, 'Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?'
Luk 12:21 "So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God."

Uh, I know that you know this is not a parable about agriculture.

yet you say you are not trying to save yourself.

are you that blind you can not see it? Everything you post is about how hard you work to save yourself. yet you deny it.

I do all those things.

Like paul, I worry about being called a hypocrite (unqualified) and unable to teach others because of my sin (do as I say, not as I do)

but like paul. I do not worry one iota about where my eternal standing will be. If I had to worry about that, I would give up. because the law still condemns me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.

correct. they will not.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”

God said these words.

They still apply to myself, To you, and every man woman and child who walk the earth.

 

[john832]

That is all well and good. But do you not see that any person you look at, you are just as cursed as they are by the law? it does not matter who it is, and what they have done? Can you admit that?

Well, not really, you see I understand this passage and it applies to me...

Gal 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"),

Christ took the curse in my place.

So you lose salvation, then get saved again, lose salvation, then get saved again. when does it all end? When does God say enough is enough, I am sick of saving you over and over, you think you can go out and do as you wish, just because you come to me and say your sorry?

You apparently have not connected all the dots on sin and salvation. What did Christ say about sin and forgiveness...

Mat 18:21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
Mat 18:22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
Mat 18:23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
Mat 18:24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents.
Mat 18:25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made.
Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, 'Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'
Mat 18:27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.

Hmmm, happens every time. How often do we seek that forgiveness?

Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors.

Each time we pray, that is in the prayer outline and how often should we pray this?

Psa 55:17 Evening and morning and at noon I will pray, and cry aloud, And He shall hear my voice.

David set the example of three times a day.

Now this is one that I know you will not want to hear, but I didn't say it, Christ did. Forgiveness is contingent upon us doing something...

Mat 18:28 "But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, 'Pay me what you owe!'
Mat 18:29 So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'
Mat 18:30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt.
Mat 18:31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done.
Mat 18:32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me.
Mat 18:33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?'
Mat 18:34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
Mat 18:35 "So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses."

Our forgiveness is contingent upon us forgiving others. It is conditional, like it or not.

Another point about sin is that willful sin, choosing to sin, or continuing in sin without repentance brings the death penalty...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

So your salvation is not based on the blood of Christ, but on how well you are at KNOWING everytime you sin, and then being able to come to God and ask for forgiveness.?

Uh, that is not what I said. Again, what I have said is that repentance is given by God...

Rom 2:4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

God leads us to repentance and then justification by the blood of Christ, reconciliation to the Father by His death and then salvation through His life...

Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

is that not the power of self to salvation, and not the power of God, who removed the curse from us, thus once the schoolmaster did its job, we are no longer under the schoolmaster (curse)?

Nope, that is the process of salvation as outlined in scripture.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, not really, you see I understand this passage and it applies to me...

Gal 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"),

Christ took the curse in my place.

lets start here.

then how can you ever think you could lose that gift of salvation?

did the blood of christ somehow fade away from the doorposts so when the death angel comes he does not see the blood? did it somehow fade from on top of the mercy seat, so God sees the stones of the law, and then judges you according to those stones and how well you did (you failed) thus you are cursed by those stones?

then we can move on the the rest of your post.

 

[john832]

lets start here.

then how can you ever think you could lose that gift of salvation?

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
Heb 6:8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord. And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Because we have free moral agency, we can turn away from God by willful, continual sin and be condemned to the fire.

 

[Hizikyah]

correct. they will not.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”

God said these words.

They still apply to myself, To you, and every man woman and child who walk the earth.

John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Deuteronomy 11:26-28, "Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known."

Revelation 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.."

Romans 2:12, "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Acts 17:30-31, “In the past Yahweh winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”


2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

 

[john832]

did the blood of christ somehow fade away from the doorposts so when the death angel comes he does not see the blood? did it somehow fade from on top of the mercy seat, so God sees the stones of the law, and then judges you according to those stones and how well you did (you failed) thus you are cursed by those stones?

then we can move on the the rest of your post.

Since we have started here, you seem to believe that a person has NO CHOICE in the matter. Once saved, they can NEVER CHANGE their mind. They cannot do what the writer of Hebrews says they can do. You say they cannot, scripture says they can (Heb 6:4-8, 10:26-31).

I gotta go with scripture on this one.

 

[Hizikyah]

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.

correct. they will not.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”

God said these words.

They still apply to myself, To you, and every man woman and child who walk the earth.

Wait... so your verse stays but does this one go?

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

 

[Karraster]

should a living person breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out..... ?

is it better if i say "thus sayeth....." "you must breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out" in order to continue in existence and life on earth ?

yes, much better. thus the number one rule to continue in existence and life on earth is 1) "breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out".

follow this one instruction and ye shall live.

all of the previous instructions are fulfilled, and you never have to do any more. you may forget #2) stop at red lights,
and #3) don't stand in front of a fast moving train
because those have been fulfilled..... someone else has stopped at red lights(every one of them), and someone else has completely refrained from standing in front of a fast moving train, so no longer do these instructions concern you.....

............................................................
,.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,m.mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

that's how the rest of the world is - ludicrous and silly on the way to death. ignoring the Creator Himself and His servants/messengers/emmisaries/sons.

the simple truth is,
whoever seeks the Creator in truth, shall find Him. that is His Promise where? in Torah. in His Instructions. through His Son Yeshua Hamashiach. (Jesus).

His instructions for life are simple. stop hurting one another. stop lying to one another. no more divorce. no more murder. no more stealing. all these things, people have done. all these things the penalty for is death. ..... and so JESUS DIED. for all these things. and WAS RESURRECTED BY YAHWEH never to die again ! JESUS IS ALIVE. so start believing Him. start listening to Him (and not to dead people!!!!!!!)(not even 'saints' who have passed).
yes,
whosoever shall believe (actively relying on and constantly depend all the time on Him, doing as He says) in the Name of the Master Yeshua, shall be saved.

don't complicate this. don't cause the little ones to stumble. ("woe to him who causes one of these little ones to stumble. who takes the light out of the eyes of a child").

may God grant us all such grace, to live simply as He wants. as He has shown us in His Son Jesus.

little children, keep yourselves from idols.

beautiful brother..just beautiful!

 

[crossnote]

I have a question concerning the poll.
What is meant by 'valid'? Laws that the Christians are obligated to do?
I'm asking because I noticed 3 people so far picked 613...talk about bondage.
So what is meant by 'valid' ?

 

[Hizikyah]

I have a question concerning the poll.
What is meant by 'valid'? Laws that the Christians are obligated to do?
I'm asking because I noticed 3 people so far picked 613...talk about bondage.
So what is meant by 'valid' ?

Yeah, a Instruction that a follower of Messiah is supposed to follow.

Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."

 

[crossnote]

Yeah, a Instruction that a follower of Messiah is supposed to follow.

Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."

613 of them?
What happened, did you guys get tired of singing Kumbye- Yah in the Kosher Korner so now you're coming back out here to stir things up?