The nativity story as i know it?

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M

munchh

Guest
#1
#1
Sorry for the naivety of my post, but i am here asking as my bible and the internet have failed to answer my question.



I am trying to find out when the nativity story as i know it, was first written in that form?




I have found Mathew and Luke and the references it comes from, but what about all the padding around thier gospels.




Why can i not find the full story as i was taught it at school and as my kids are still taught.




If Mathew and Luke's gospels are the only reference, where did the rest come from, is it even fully Christian?




I may have opened a can of worms, but in this world of consumption, i would like to know i can still convey the true meaning of Christmas to my kids, but i will not without knowing i am not talking rubbish.




Even wikapedia is vague?




Thanks for your help.
 
B

BehindBlueEyes

Guest
#2
#2
It's hard to trace where the non-biblical details that have been added to the Nativity first came about.

Some of them, such as the idea that there were 3 wise men, a rude inn keeper, or that Jesus was born in a stable seem to be added through assumption.

Because there are 3 gifts listed in the Gospel accounts of the Nativity, people have assumed there were 3 men who brought these. The fact is, there could have been as few as 2 or even several more than 3. It also is not likely they came to Christ on the night he was born, as Scripture says in Matthew 2 that they first went to Herod to seek out the Christ-child. This could have left a few days between them reaching Hero and finding Jesus.

As many times as I have heard talk about a rude and wicked inn keeper who would not provide a place for Jesus to be born, none existed. Mary and Joseph probably were not in the stable of an inn either, as many have speculated. The Scripture (as far as I recall) does not say specifically where Jesus was born, apart from mentioning a manger. A manger could have very well been in a home, as it was common in that time for the downstairs of a home to be common space where animals were kept at night.

It is much easier for us to know what really happened by reading the Gospel accounts, though it is nearly impossible to find an account outside of that these days (even within church Christmas programs) where the facts have not been tweaked.
 
M

munchh

Guest
#3
#3
Im just trying to understand who dramatised it first, ive read loads about it over the last few days, the Romans didnt make people return to their place of birth to take a census, its just not how they did it, then again the word census is also interprited as taxed, you dont have to go anywhere for that to happen?

The story was told to us as the reason we have Christmas, i know the dates and stuff were changed up to be on the Pagan days so the could convert people far easier, but it cant have just been pulled out of the air, it was cobbled together from various gospels and dramatised into a story, but nobody seems to take credit?


Boney M tell it quite well :)


It has gone so crazy my kids did a nativity, it had Rudolph in the stable and Father Christmas made an apperance?


The fact is, i have always taken the story for granted, i thought it was in the bible, but it took very little of my dislexic reading ability, to realise its not really, its another interpritation, but one that the biggest festival on our calander is built around, retailers have built buisneses around it, its a big deal, but not gospel (pardon the pun).


I cannot say i feel cheated or lied to as i dont go to church, but its quite hard to find out aged 43 that something I have always known, is not quite as I knew it?
 
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Eva1218

Guest
#4
#4
What we all must do is Only rely on what the scriptures read and receive Revelation from HOLY SPIRIT. Never expect it any other way.
 
M

munchh

Guest
#5
#5
i will keep looking, it must have been taught first somewhere, by someone, its not just something thats been word of mouth and now every year schools everywhere put on the story.


i quite like it when i am able to question something ive known so long
 
Agricola

Agricola

Senior Member
#6
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
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#6
The traditional nativity story did not happen! Its just a fancy re-telling of Jesus birth with artistic licence!

First of all, Mary would have travelled in a cart pulled by a donkey, the barn or stable was not a stable as we think, animals would have been secured in a lower room beneth the main dwellings of a house, rather like an ancient garage, the Magi would have been more than 3 and they turned up years after Christ was born. Anyway here is a video explaining it!

[video=youtube_share;2sO3InyiIjw]http://youtu.be/2sO3InyiIjw[/video]
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#7
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#7
My motto is that if it is not in the Bible, then there is a chance it is not true. Men are flawed and can create lies and or deception. But God's Word is always perfect and true and is 100% reliable.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#8
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#8
Now the Bible does allude to the missing years of Christ's childhood in Psalm 69. Chuck Missler explains this in the video below (Starting approximately at 50 minutes into the video):

[video=youtube;aRlHxZEI7dg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRlHxZEI7dg[/video]
 
Agricola

Agricola

Senior Member
#9
Dec 10, 2012
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#9
ANother 1 hour epic.....
 
M

munchh

Guest
#10
#10
Sorry, i think you may be missing my point, i know it is a dramatisation of the "facts", so who or even when did that story come about, i am assuming it was in the style of a play, so people who could not read could have the story conveyed to them in a way they would remember. Are we saying it was not the church who did this, but someone else, im sure they had good intentions, but who?
 
M

munchh

Guest
#11
#11
However, more formal Nativity plays have featured in Christian worship since medieval mystery plays. The twelfth to nineteenth pageants of the 48-cycle York Mystery Plays dealt with the Nativity story. In Germany, the Weihnachten services on Christmas Eve include a children's mass called Weihnachtsgeschichte, which features a Krippenspiel ("crib play")."

Nativity play - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It would appear to be Medieval in origin munch. I dare say most of you are aware of the various Mystery plays that can be found dating back to the Medieval times.


Mummers' and guisers' plays were formerly performed throughout most of English-speaking Ireland, Europe and Great Britain, as well as in other English-speaking parts of the world including Newfoundland, Kentucky and Saint Kitts and Nevis. There are a few surviving traditional teams of mummers in England and Ireland, but there have been many revivals of mumming, often associated nowadays with morris and sword dance groups


Mummers play - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


hope this is of some help
 
M

munchh

Guest
#12
#12
That is a post i got back on another forum, seems the most sence, but still doesnt answer who first put the story together?
 
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