Doubting the salvation of someone just because they don't believe as you do.

[VW]

I made that comment after reading a couple posts from another thread which I did not comment on but did leave feeling a bit frustrated. Immediately after i made the comment, I walked away from the computer and started to prepare dinner when the Holy Spirit intervined and told me what I had done. I then took dinner off of the stove and came back to make my appology.

Do I feel embarrassed? Absolutely however, I find peace in the fact that God loves me enough to disrupt whatever it is I'm doing to correct me. To some that may seem odd but not to me, that's exactly the kind of relationship I want from Him and the sense of urgency I need from Him. I want to feel his heart in all things no matter how small or trivial it may seem and it is my earnest prayer that as children of the living God that is your request too.

"Confess your sins one to another..."

Amen!

And this is exactly the kind of walk that Jesus had with His Father while He was here. His take on things was decidedly different from that of the religious leaders of His day, and He saw the people with a different eye, or heart. It is written that only those who are sick need to be healed. Well, I need saved, most often from myself and my idiotic ideas. Thank you for this confession.

In His peace,

 

[carpetmanswife]

*lol* well said.

I'm not afraid to step up to the plate and admit when I am wrong. This isn't the first time and most likely won't be the last. *lol*

Sure it's a little embarrasiing but if someone else can learn from it then so be it. I would be very worried and disapoointed if the Holy Spirit didn't correct / humble me from time to time. A good sign that He's at work in my life. Praise God!

so right my friend!

 

[NoahsMom]

And we ask of ourselves, "So what if that one does not believe in the rapture, or the filling of the Spirit, or the laying on of hands. Do they have the Spirit of God dwelling in them? Then, they are His. And my responsibility to this one is to love them even as Jesus loves me. If I cannot do that, in the Spirit of Christ, then I have no part of Him."

In His peace,AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Harley_Angel]

Amen to this topic. All the time we see people say or put up stuff just to start a controversy. It's much more interesting to come on here and see arguments and heated debate rather than uplifting learning. A lot of what we talk about and argue about is pretty much "junk food" for the soul. Yeah it's spiritual food since often we are talking about spirital things, but it's not good for the Body. We have to remember that many different people from many different walks of life come here becuse THEY BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST. Let's focus on what we have in common, not tear each other apart for what we don't.

 

[Daffy4Christ]

No one has the right to say you are saved or not. But..there is evidence of your salvation. In the USA(as well other places) there are false doctrines and gospels being taught, where many people confess and believe they are saved but truly they are not.

1 John is an excellent book to "test" to see if your in the faith. I suggest never listen to just one pastor...do much research on your own compare and contrast the different views, test your own knowledge compared to what the bible really says. Pray pray pray to God to show you the truth and expose all lies (with a honest heart searching for the truth). If you can study biblical hebrew and greek. I am going to school for Theology and Apologetics and It is amazing how many "lies" I believed...

I cant say Joel Osteen is not "saved" but what I can say is his theology and the gospel he preaches is watered down. He even stated he doesn't use the word "sin" because he thinks it will put people down, and he wants people to be motivated for the Lord, in it self that doesn't sound bad..but think about it....

The job of the Holy Spirit is to convict you of sin. If you are not talking about sin how can the Holy Spirit convict? Your motivation for the Lord does not come from fancy preaching but it should come from the Holy Spirit Him self. You don't need up beat music, nice back drops and motivational words to be excited...if you need that then you don't know the Holy Spirit. all work of salvation comes from God...once you realize you sin and when you personal realize Jesus came to shed his blood as a sacrifice for your sin that should be motivation enough to repent and get you moving for the Lord.....If it does not..I would question your faith. The question is how do you view sin? If you hate sin and every time you sin you feel a guilt like you personally offended God....I would say that is good evidence the Holy Spirit is working in you...

I don't rely on my own understanding..just whatever the Bible teaches as a whole.

God bless you all...

Donald

 

[Harley_Angel]

In the end, God knows our hearts and our minds. We are going to be confused, we are going to read mistranslations, we are going to believe something that is false, we are going to be ignorant of some things. Jesus was perfect so we don't have to be. Listen to your hear, and your mind. Pray on it. Do research until you find something that sits right in your heart. God will know you were seeking Him, even if you do't always know the truth. Love God above all others, with all your heart and soul, and love your neighbor. You don't need to know facts to know how to do that, and that's all He asks of you.

 

[sunshine_debbie]

I am fairly new to this site, but I have observed some things. People argue, people disagree, but there is love here. I know it. And there is a faith here and a gentleness and kindness here.

To presume someone else's salvation is to me horrifying. I have enough problems just worrying if I am right with God. I have enough to focus on just worrying about my own state of faith and grace and humility. I can not imagine worrying about someone else. Perhaps God has given this gift of discernment to someone to be able to in Christ-like love point out that someone may be incorrect in their doctrine. But there must be a better way of accomplishing that then the arguing and nastyness I have seen on here lately.

I dont know, but I worry. This site was literally sent from God to me. I desperately need the advice and the conversation in Christ that I have been getting. I would really hate for Satan to get a foothold in here and destroy it.

Debbie

 

[joint-heir]

hmmmmmmmmmm

NO ONE SAID THAT INDIVIDUAL WAS NOT EVER SAVED

but let me leave this 1 thought with each and everyone of you

WE ARE OUR BROTHERS KEEPER

POSSIBLY
once you walk a mile in ones shoes
and understand the WORK of GOD
in that particular individual
THEN
you possibly could understand
WHAT EXACTLY TOOK PLACE

there are a million issues pertaining to the BIBLE
and not a single one of us will EVER agree with generally most of them
THIS NEVER MEANS THEY ARE NOT SAVED OR COMPLETELY WRONG
sometimes
we as believer of GOD like myself need to be refined by the FIRE of GOD
in order to format concrete foundation by which it is you BELIEVE

WHY DO I BELIEVE THE WAY I BELIEVE?

because I have had to prove my belief to myself first and then to accept it before I COULD SHARE IT
AND
TELL ME
WHAT IS WRONG ASKING OTHERS TO DO THE SAME AS WE HAVE BEEN INSTRUCTED BY GOD TO DO SOO???

MAYBE
BEFORE YOU GO OFF ON YOUR TANGENT
AND
LYNCHING
IT WOULD BE WISER TO ASK
BEFORE ASSUMING
BECAUSE
ALTHOUGH I MIGHT NOT AGREE WITH YOUR POSITION
DOES NOT MEAN I WILL EVER FEEL AND BELIEVE WE WILL NOT BE SIDE BY SIDE WORSHIPPING GOD TOGETHER
BUT
WHAT IT DOES MEAN
IF I DISAGREE WITH YOU
I HAVE THE RIGHT IN GOD
TO MAKE YOU SHOW ME COMPLETELY TO SEE IF I CAN EVER AGREE

 

[VW]

I am fairly new to this site, but I have observed some things. People argue, people disagree, but there is love here. I know it. And there is a faith here and a gentleness and kindness here.

To presume someone else's salvation is to me horrifying. I have enough problems just worrying if I am right with God. I have enough to focus on just worrying about my own state of faith and grace and humility. I can not imagine worrying about someone else. Perhaps God has given this gift of discernment to someone to be able to in Christ-like love point out that someone may be incorrect in their doctrine. But there must be a better way of accomplishing that then the arguing and nastyness I have seen on here lately.

I dont know, but I worry. This site was literally sent from God to me. I desperately need the advice and the conversation in Christ that I have been getting. I would really hate for Satan to get a foothold in here and destroy it.

Debbie

When we see strife, when we see backbiting or strong disagreement, that may sometimes cause strong words to be said, I believe that our best option, indeed, our calling is to pray for peace. We are all too diverse to have the exact same beliefs, we each have our own experiences, our own life in and with the Spirit, our own understanding of God, as He reveals Himself to us. We can read the apostles and see that they were very different people, with differing areas of emphasis and differing gifts of understanding. God is so much above and beyond what we see, and He teaches each one as He sees fit for the best for that individual. May we grow to understand this, that God is an individual God to each and every one of His children, and that He individually works with each of us as we need, in His unique love for each of us. What a miracle.

In His peace,

 

[Graybeard]

I'm sorry you feel that way bro. However, you're entittled to your own opinion and I respect that. Sometimes people disagree, that's a fact of life but it doesn't make one or the other any less human. If anything it proves that both are.

just stating a fact that you have pointed out...that's all.

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

just stating a fact that you have pointed out...that's all.

Ah... I read you now Gray. Your response was kinda' short so it was hard to tell where you were coming from. I apologize for any confusion.

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

Does anyone else find it odd and somewhat telling how the people who generally do this sort of thing that we are talking about, they seem to love to post their opinions to any and all topics in the forum yet so far have avoided this one. *lol*

 

[imoss]

Praise the Lord you came back & posted instead of stirring your pot and arguing your point with the Holy spirit and staying steadfast in your ways. Often it is our practice when convicted of err to justify it to the Holy Spirit... to argue & most certainly not post our err for the world to see. Bless your heart!

What I wanted to say with respect to this is that in the last year I've grown alot in my faith walk and it is because of those challenging posts that cut me to the quick that this growth was initiated. So although they may seem harsh at the time, if we look upon all things said and in a prayerful self reflecting God's will seeking open heart... sometimes we come to realize we are wrong (& roaring kitten, BLC, Swat 4 Christ, Pastor Keith, Noah's dad, Shad is right hee hee) Dont get all pumped up though guys cause I dont agree with everything ya say :0). Anyway sometimes it is those extreme reactions at what someone is saying that may be the Lords way of trying to penetrate the pride that stands in the way of your growth in the Lord.

Just my 2 cents. & sorry if anyones ever felt judged by me as although I disagree with certain doctrine I would never ever judge the heart of the individual believer and would rather prayerfully request the Lord to work in their heart that they be open to the truth as opposed to sitting in righteous judgement of how my knowledge is so much better than their's.

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

Praise the Lord you came back & posted instead of stirring your pot and arguing your point with the Holy spirit and staying steadfast in your ways. Often it is our practice when convicted of err to justify it to the Holy Spirit... to argue & most certainly not post our err for the world to see. Bless your heart!

What I wanted to say with respect to this is that in the last year I've grown alot in my faith walk and it is because of those challenging posts that cut me to the quick that this growth was initiated. So although they may seem harsh at the time, if we look upon all things said and in a prayerful self reflecting God's will seeking open heart... sometimes we come to realize we are wrong (& roaring kitten, BLC, Swat 4 Christ, Pastor Keith, Noah's dad, Shad is right hee hee) Dont get all pumped up though guys cause I dont agree with everything ya say :0). Anyway sometimes it is those extreme reactions at what someone is saying that may be the Lords way of trying to penetrate the pride that stands in the way of your growth in the Lord.

Just my 2 cents. & sorry if anyones ever felt judged by me as although I disagree with certain doctrine I would never ever judge the heart of the individual believer and would rather prayerfully request the Lord to work in their heart that they be open to the truth as opposed to sitting in righteous judgement of how my knowledge is so much better than their's.

Personally, I feel that salvation runs far deeper than the doctrines of man, namely Calvinism and Arminism, and that one can be fully saved while holding to either perspective. For one to say that one must be "either / or" in order to be saved is nothing but foolishness. God is a soveriegn God. His ways are not our ways and who are we to tell him what to do and how to do it?

The problem seems to be that for one to make such a bold proclaimation that one can not be saved unless one believes in a certain way is actually contrary to the very doctrine that many are preaching. Has anyone stopped to realize that maybe some need Calvinism in order to live out his or her faith? In that same vain of thinking, that others may need Arminism to do the same? They key word here being "faith" a necessary component in order to be saved by anyone.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Personally, I feel that salvation runs far deeper than the doctrines of man, namely Calvinism and Arminism, and that one can be fully saved while holding to either perspective. For one to say that one must be "either / or" in order to be saved is nothing but foolishness. God is a soveriegn God. His ways are not our ways and who are we to tell him what to do and how to do it?

The problem seems to be that for one to make such a bold proclaimation that one can not be saved unless one believes in a certain way is actually contrary to the very doctrine that many are preaching. Has anyone stopped to realize that maybe some need Calvinism in order to live out his or her faith? In that same vain of thinking, that others may need Arminism to do the same? They key word here being "faith" a necessary component in order to be saved by anyone.

Well stated.

 

[NoahsMom]

As long as they love the Lord God with all their heart, mind , and soul, believe he died for their sins, and try their very best to live their life for him with a pure heart, I could care less what denomination they are, if they believe in the rapture , how long their hair is, how many tattoos they have, what they done 15 years ago......In order to be offended or hurt by someones OPINION, you have to care what they think . ( the only persons opinion im impressed with is GODS) . In saying that, as long as everything is ok between me and God, I dont have to please any one else. I am commissioned to love them, and pray for them, if they be-rate me for my walk with God....and if Gods not bearing witness with what they said...you know the sayin dust your feet off? I have met many wonderful ppl from this site, who dont agree with everything I do, yet, they love and pray for me and show a genuine respect for my thoughts and feelings, and IF we do have debates, its done in love. thats the key LOVE. The way i see it, and if you disagree thats 100% fine, as long as we keep the main thing , the main thing,,,,all the rest aint gonna matter when we get there. Dont let someone try to make you doubt your salvation with their opinions, pray for them and pray God grants you the wisdom and knowledge and understanding to know and live your daily walk with him.

 

[VW]

As long as they love the Lord God with all their heart, mind , and soul, believe he died for their sins, and try their very best to live their life for him with a pure heart, I could care less what denomination they are, if they believe in the rapture , how long their hair is, how many tattoos they have, what they done 15 years ago......In order to be offended or hurt by someones OPINION, you have to care what they think . ( the only persons opinion im impressed with is GODS) . In saying that, as long as everything is ok between me and God, I dont have to please any one else. I am commissioned to love them, and pray for them, if they be-rate me for my walk with God....and if Gods not bearing witness with what they said...you know the sayin dust your feet off? I have met many wonderful ppl from this site, who dont agree with everything I do, yet, they love and pray for me and show a genuine respect for my thoughts and feelings, and IF we do have debates, its done in love. thats the key LOVE. The way i see it, and if you disagree thats 100% fine, as long as we keep the main thing , the main thing,,,,all the rest aint gonna matter when we get there. Dont let someone try to make you doubt your salvation with their opinions, pray for them and pray God grants you the wisdom and knowledge and understanding to know and live your daily walk with him.

AMEN! Salvation is God's territory, and He has seen all who are His. None can take them out of His hand.

 

[NoahsMom]

Salvation is God's territory, and He has seen all who are His. None can take them out of His hand.You Know It! Thems some mightily big shoes to fill....if someone feels led to read somebody their mail, they can go right on ahead, Ill sit right here , show the love that has been freely shown to me and let God clean house.

 

[machew]

Recently in another thread, someone who professes to be a pastor or preacher of some sort began to publically denounce the salvation of others simply did not agree with his doctrine. While this thread is not to debate or discuss that doctrine, others who share that doctrine started jumping on the boat saying that if you don't have the faith to believe this way then you do not have the faith to be saved. - The funny thing is that anyone could have just as easily turned their own point around on them and said that if they did not have the faith to believe that God could save someone and work in their despite the fact that these people do not believe the same way as they do, this lack of faith could be a sign they do not have the faith to be saved as well. However, seeing as I neither believe that or want to sound self righteous as they do by making such claims, we'll put an end to that accusation now.

Anyhow, my first question to you is:

If someone truly believes in Christ for their salvation, that Christ came to this earth to die on a cross for our sins and that in order to be saved we must believe in him and him alone for our salvation, what gives you the right to proclaim that anyone else is unsaved?

My second question, by criticisizing and alienating those who believe very simular to you yet may disagree on a few small points, do you not realize or even care that you are possibly doing more damage to the Body of Christ as a whole thus you could be percieved by God and others as "a worker of iniquity"?

My third question, do you not realize that by insisting that no one can be saved unless they believe as you do, that others may begin to look at you not as loving christians but as heretical and dangerous cult such as Jahova's Witnesses and Mormons have been viewed as over the last several centuries?

Good post. Thanks for posting!

 

[imoss]

Personally, I feel that salvation runs far deeper than the doctrines of man, namely Calvinism and Arminism, and that one can be fully saved while holding to either perspective. For one to say that one must be "either / or" in order to be saved is nothing but foolishness. God is a soveriegn God. His ways are not our ways and who are we to tell him what to do and how to do it?

The problem seems to be that for one to make such a bold proclaimation that one can not be saved unless one believes in a certain way is actually contrary to the very doctrine that many are preaching. Has anyone stopped to realize that maybe some need Calvinism in order to live out his or her faith? In that same vain of thinking, that others may need Arminism to do the same? They key word here being "faith" a necessary component in order to be saved by anyone.

I'm thinkin i'm gonna go with Jesusism... otherwise known as Christianity. I hear you on this btw.