Done Away?

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Have these things happened already?

  • All has been NOT YET been fulfilled, we await the return of Messiah

    Votes: 22 84.6%
  • All has been fulfilled, even the return of Messiah

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Heaven and earth has passed HAS NOT PASSED

    Votes: 12 46.2%
  • Heaven and earth has passed

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • All things have NOT YET been perfected

    Votes: 14 53.8%
  • All things have been perfected

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    26

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
#41
I have to show this real fast

(Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."
I have to show this real fast

(Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."
Post 26 indicates to me your zealousness for God the Jews are known for, which is good. I will enjoy discussing the word with you, yur fervor affording us a great opportunity to present the Bible messages to the world.

You brought up Acts 21 but took part out of context to make a doctrinal argument support I disagree with. I'll post the context, the whole truth, and add commentary based on scriptures between verses.

Acts 21:17-26 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.

(Paul was warned by the prophet Agabus not to even go into Jerusalem)

[SUP]18 [/SUP] And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

(James had a poorly hatched plan to try appeasing the Jews, had not picked up on what the Spirit was saying to disciples. That James was not the apostle who was murdered in Acts 12, but was the half brother of Jesus)

[SUP]19 [/SUP] And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:


(Paul reported on his ministry to the Gentiles. James and the elders then reported on their ministry to the Jews, many becoming believers. Although the Jewish converts were Christians, they held onto the law too. They would not receive Paul's message about the law not contributing to their justification through Christ alone, as Paul was arrested a few days later. That mixture lasted until Jerusalem and the Temple was destroyed in 70AD, that being the end of the priesthood and sacrifices as commanded at the Temple, then began a slow death among Christians as more of the epistles became published.)

[SUP]21 [/SUP] And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.


(That was not true at all. Paul taught Gentiles not to take part in the things that failed the Jews ever since Moses. He knew not to forbid Jews from following the law. He taught Gentiles they didn't have to to be saved. Converting Jews wasn't his ministry, as his was to the Gentiles.)

[SUP]23 [/SUP] Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.


(Nazarite vows were not commanded to be observed, but the law prescribed the required manner of observance if anyone wanted to do it. Num It was a very commendable voluntary act of consecrating to God in a very public way. Paul had made the vow in Acts 18:18, his opportunity to complete it in Acts 21. By then Paul had already taught righteousness could not come by the law. Philippians 3:9 (KJV) [SUP]9 [/SUP] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: The doing of that vow did not "prove" Paul was totally dedicated to the law having some eternal value for a Christian. Being a Jew it was proper and admissible for him to enter the Temple to complete the vow. It is BTW fine with God for follwoers of Jesus to take part in any observance of the Jews. I have shared Passover with a Jewish family and was blessed, and twice with Messianic Jews. When observing it one must not offend any by not doing it lawfully. Did that help save me? no. I honored those families and by that honored God in a special way. Paul was attempting to do just that at the request of the Jerusalem Church elders, while finishing his vow.)

[SUP]25 [/SUP] As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

(James and the elders restated Acts 15 agreement. It appears they missed one point, saying things offered to idols, when Acts 15 specified things soiled,contaminated (KJV "pollutions") by idols. Two different Greek words. But at least here we have confirmation of the Acts 15 account. )

[SUP]26 [/SUP] Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

The rest of the story is Paul wasn't allowed to finish the required 7 days of purification. He was falsely accused of bringing a Gentile into the Temple, the prophecy of Agabus fulfilled. He was off on his last journey, this time to Rome, never to return home.

I won't sit here telling you or anyone what to believe out of that. The text is plain enough to me, along with evidence from other scriptures in context, to take the words literally. I cannot possibly conclude that any Gentile believer is required to take part in any Jewish observance, nor should be judged for not doing those things. That's my belief, and that of a huge company of Bible scholars. The New Testament teaches the actual moral code of God throughout the scriptures, so Gentile Christians get that message loud and clear without reading Moses, in fact Jesus taking it to a higher standard than Moses wrote.

Some will hear from the Spirit like Agabus did, while many will not.
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#42
idk, i'm kinda tired, so this may come out poorly,
but God's Law remains in full force on the earth today.

it's in force for every soul on the planet, and will one day judge them.

unless you are in Christ, in which case Rom 7:4 & Gal 2:19 seem to clearly say you have died to it.

and that's how both are true...God's Law has not passed away, and believers are not under it.
 
Mar 28, 2014
4,300
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#43
of course I do not think it is o.k. to murder covet steal have idols before God etc.. let me toss you this and I'm done for real: just because many of us say that we do not have to keep the O.T. law you and others automatically assume that we think we can do whatever and live however and still be saved if we believe in Jesus. I am not saying that. I do believe in personal holiness. out.
God concluded all under sin...if there is no law ....how would sin be sin....it is the law that identify sin...
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#44
Matthew 5:17 [SUP] [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

John 19:30 [SUP] [/SUP]When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

What's finished? What the Lord Jesus came to do. To fulfill the Law and the Prophets. If He didn't fulfill them He couldn't make this statement:

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Rest from what? From your un-ceasing work at the law and your work at trying to make yourself righteous.

But you aren't heavy laden and aren't laboring if you haven't tried to be perfect before the Lord by your own righteousness at the law. You have to know that you can't do it yourself when you come to Him. Like the difference in the prayers of the pharisee and the tax collector...
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#45
Im curious why those who say the Law is done away have not voted?
Because the poll is flawed.

Those in Christ are dead to the Law (Rom. 7:4-6).

Does the Law still exist?

Yes.

Is it binding on those in Christ?

No.

Is the Law good?

Yes, if used properly (1 Tim. 1:8-11).

Who is the Law for?

The Law is not for the righteous, but for the unrighteous, to lead them to Christ (Gal. 3:24-29).

Who does the Bible say you are if you are in Christ?

Righteous.

The Law is for the UNrighteous, not for the righteous.

Are you in Christ?

Then the Law is not for you.

Think there is no guidance for those in Christ in the New Covenant Scriptures?

Really?

Have you read the NT?

Lots of exhortation and guidance there - given in the context of New Covenant Grace.

___________________________

Your poll was not designed to ask genuine questions but rather to steer folks to your conclusions regarding your belief that believers are bound to keep Feasts, days, and dietary laws.

On top of that, you've manipulated Matt. 5:17-19. You're using a translation/paraphrase that I could not locate, for one, and two, thrown an interpretation out there that is not faithful to the actual text which actually reads,

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


Compelling question number one: Did Jesus do what He said He came to do or did Jesus lie?


18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.​


Compelling question number two: Did Jesus say that the criteria for jots and tittles passing had to be BOTH heaven and earth passing AND fulfillment?

No, not at all. He was saying that jots and tittles could pass if the Law was fulfilled. He was saying that IF the Law was NOT fulfilled, it could not pass until heaven and earth pass.

Again, what did Jesus say He came to do?

Fulfill the Law.

Did He do it, or did He lie?
_______________________

See, there are two primary fatal flaws in the 'Law is for believers' theology:

  1. They like to preach/teach that not one jot or tittle can pass from the Law until heaven and earth pass, yet they do not teach that believers should be sacrificing animals or that those who break certain commandments in the Law should be stoned. Oh no, those jots and tittles have passed . . . but I thought NOT ONE jot or tittle could pass unless heaven and earth did too???

    They pick and choose the rules they will follow (typically those things which are very easy to keep - Feast, day, dietary law-keeping, tzit tzit wearing - some even go to Jerusalem for the required Feasts (but very few). They say they keep the moral laws, as well (debatable in some Torah sects which teach polygamy).

    So of the precepts in the Law that apply to them (some for women, some for men, others for priests, and still others for businessmen, agricultural workers, etc.), they are only keeping a fraction, with Temple and punitive practices excluded completely from their lifestyles.
  2. They completely disregard the believer's position in Christ and its affect on their relationship to the Law.

    Those in Christ are DEAD to the Law and MUST BE in order to be joined unto Christ SO THAT they may bear fruit unto God. (Rom. 7:4-6, Gal. 2:19-21)

    The Law IS abolished for those in Christ (see Eph. 2, Col. 2). Torah folk have their own interpretations of those passages, attempting to make them say things they do not say, but a plain reading of the text is clear.


Does the Law still exist?

Yes.

Is it for the believer in Christ?

No.

-JGIG
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#46
This is crazy, its very simple IMO.

either all has been fulfilled or has not yet

either heaven and earth have passed or they have not yet

either all things have been perfected or they have not yet
Either Christ fulfilled the Law like He said he came to do or He lied.

I'm goin' with fulfilled.

-JGIG
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#47
Uh, the same Law that Jesus Christ said this about?

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

16 “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
(from Luke 16)
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#48
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

King James Bible
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Well that puts you in a tough spot, then, since you're not keeping the commandments of God as you've defined them (the Mosaic code).

I'm going with the commandments of God after the Cross - the New Torah in Christ - 'Believe on the One God has sent and love one another'.

-JGIG
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#49
We were warned;

Jude 1:4 Parallel Verses
New International Version
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

New Living Translation
I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

English Standard Version
For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

New American Standard Bible
For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

King James Bible
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For some men, who were designated for this judgment long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly, turning the grace of our God into promiscuity and denying Jesus Christ, our only Master and Lord.

International Standard Version
For some people have slipped in among you unnoticed. They were written about long ago as being deserving of this condemnation because they are ungodly. They turn the grace of our God into uncontrollable lust and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus the Messiah.

NET Bible
For certain men have secretly slipped in among you--men who long ago were marked out for the condemnation I am about to describe--ungodly men who have turned the grace of our God into a license for evil and who deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For men have obtained entrance, who from the beginning were written with this guilty verdict: “Evil men who pervert the grace of our God into an abomination and deny him who is the only Lord God and our Lord Yeshua The Messiah.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Some people have slipped in among you unnoticed. Not long ago they were condemned in writing for the following reason: They are people to whom God means nothing. They use God's kindness as an excuse for sexual freedom and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For there are certain men crept in unawares without fear or reverence of God, who from beforehand have been ordained unto this condemnation, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness and denying God who alone has dominion, and our Lord Jesus, the Christ.

King James 2000 Bible
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into licentiousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

American King James Version
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

American Standard Version
For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For certain men are secretly entered in, (who were written of long ago unto this judgment,) ungodly men, turning the grace of our Lord God into riotousness, and denying the only sovereign Ruler, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Darby Bible Translation
For certain men have got in unnoticed, they who of old were marked out beforehand to this sentence, ungodly [persons], turning the grace of our God into dissoluteness, and denying our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ.

English Revised Version
For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old set forth unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Webster's Bible Translation
For certain men have crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Weymouth New Testament
For certain persons have crept in unnoticed--men spoken of in ancient writings as pre-destined to this condemnation--ungodly men, who pervert the grace of our God into an excuse for immorality, and disown Jesus Christ, our only Sovereign and Lord.

World English Bible
For there are certain men who crept in secretly, even those who were long ago written about for this condemnation: ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into indecency, and denying our only Master, God, and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Young's Literal Translation
for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord -- Jesus Christ -- denying,

766. aselgeia Strong's Concordance
aselgeia: licentiousness, wantonness
Original Word: ἀσέλγεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: aselgeia
Phonetic Spelling: (as-elg'-i-a)
Short Definition: wantonness, lewdness
Definition: (outrageous conduct, conduct shocking to public decency, a wanton violence), wantonness, lewdness


Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) unbridled lust, excess, licentiousness, lasciviousness, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence


Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From a compound of G0001 (as a negative particle) and a presumed σελγής [[selges]] (of uncertain derivation, but apparently meaning continent); licentiousness (sometimes including other vices):—filthy, lasciviousness, wantonness.
Yep. Some folks use Grace to be stupid. Sinning is destructive and distracting. And they are miserable. If they're not, they're probably not in Christ in the first place.

Grace does not create an environment that encourages sinning; it creates an environment that sets people free from sin. It teaches us to say no to ungodliness (Titus 2:11-14), and is willing to let us learn over time from the natural consequences of our actions.

Grace builds us up in who we are in Christ - it always points to Him. And in Him we find strength and identity, and as we understand who we are in Christ, we sin less and less.

-JGIG
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
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#50
There are those who have made a religion of disregarding completely what Christ says about the Law.

By the way, here is a statement from a man after God's own heart...

Psa 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
Psa 119:98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.
Psa 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
Psa 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.
Psa 119:101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.
Psa 119:102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.
Psa 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Now the guy who said this will also be resurrected to the position of king over ALL ISRAEL, I guess that will teach him to extoll the greatness of the Law.
David extolled that which was in effect in his time.

There is a New Covenant in effect now. All of those things can be said about God's commandments after the Cross, as well: Believe on the One God has sent and love one another (from John 3).

-JGIG
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#51
Yep. Some folks use Grace to be stupid. Sinning is destructive and distracting. And they are miserable. If they're not, they're probably not in Christ in the first place.

Grace does not create an environment that encourages sinning; it creates an environment that sets people free from sin. It teaches us to say no to ungodliness (Titus 2:11-14), and is willing to let us learn over time from the natural consequences of our actions.

Grace builds us up in who we are in Christ - it always points to Him. And in Him we find strength and identity, and as we understand who we are in Christ, we sin less and less.

-JGIG
yes, and notice these were ones who "slipped in" probably the like crowd of...

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#52
I hesitate to confuse the issue, but when Jesus does return He will purify the law with fire, removing all that man corrupted, then reinstate it. A time will come when the old priesthood, the feasts, the law will once again be enjoyed by Israel, with joy and not misery, without curses. It isn't time to put the yoke of the law which no generation of Jews could perform, never satisfying it, the reason for the required sacrifices. Failure was built in to the law. The temporary "fix" required the blood of animals every year all their days, their sins covered, not washed away. That left the curse of the law never going away for Jews, to this day.

The Jews remain blinded to their own old testament. God allows that to continue so many Gentiles can be saved as prophesied. At the last all Israel will see Jesus and be saved.
Please explain how a Final, once for all (Jew and Gentile) sacrifice Who is also a Perfect, Permanent High Priest will co-exist with a sacrificial system (made completely obsolete in Christ and its priesthood replaced PERMANENTLY).

The Feasts required sacrifices. For what? Sin. Why would there EVER be sacrifices instituted by God again when He has declared by His Own Oath that Christ, the Perfect, Final, Once-for-all Sacrifice, is a Priest FOREVER?

Some things to consider . . .

-JGIG
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#53
Done away with? When I was truly confronted by the Law and saw how totally unworthy I was I I was truly grateful for God's grace personified in Jesus. I realized just how much I was forgiven and I love much. I don't need rules and regulations_He sees my heart which longs to please Him. His law of love is practiced when we feel the Holy Spirit nudge us to help someone, to witness to someone, a kind word, a generous tip, an offer of help to a neighbor, forgiving a slight....
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#54
idk, i'm kinda tired, so this may come out poorly,
but God's Law remains in full force on the earth today.

it's in force for every soul on the planet, and will one day judge them.

unless you are in Christ, in which case Rom 7:4 & Gal 2:19 seem to clearly say you have died to it.

and that's how both are true...God's Law has not passed away, and believers are not under it.
Brilliantly put :).

-JGIG
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#55
God concluded all under sin...if there is no law ....how would sin be sin....it is the law that identify sin...
If you are under the Law, then God has to count your sins against you. If you are in Christ, He does not do that (see 2 Cor. 5:18-19).

-JGIG
 
Aug 1, 2009
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#56
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Hizikyah,

If nothing has passed from the law and you actually believe you follow it harmoniously with the gospel of Jesus...

When you and your church go out preaching the gospel, how many people have you all drug out of their homes and stoned them to death for any blasphemes they have heard, or for any other judgments in the law of God that call for their execution?

"And whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall certainly stone him, the stranger as well as him who is born in the land. When he blasphemes the name of the LORD, he shall be put to death."
Leviticus 24:16

Are you and your church members, who like and defend these beliefs, participating in these threads from jail?

If nothing has passed from the law...then what's your church's body count?[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,363
185
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#58
Please show me where Matthew says "heaven and earth must pass away before every jot and tittle can be fulfilled"?

1) What Matthew does say is that every jot and tittle shall remain till all (jot & tittle) be fulfilled.
2) What Matthew did NOT say is that every jot and tittle shall remain till heaven and earth pass away.

You are reading #2 into the verse.

Luke also did NOT say heaven and earth must pass for the OT law to be fulfilled.

Luke is saying that it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the OT law not to be fulfilled. Likewise Matthew is saying the same thing. Albert Barnes puts Mt 5:18 this way "Till heaven and earth pass - This expression denotes that the law never would be destroyed until it should be all fulfilled. It is the same as saying everything else may change; the very earth and heaven may pass away, but the law of God shall not be destroyed until its whole design has been accomplished."


YLT Mt 5:18 "
for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass."

Again, Matthew as Luke is showing it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the OT law to go unfulfilled.

If the OT law is still in place then there is a whole host of contradictions you can never clear up.


What Matthew says...

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Until heaven and earth pass, not one jot or tittle will pass.

I don't really know how much plainer it can get.
 
Mar 28, 2014
4,300
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#59
You said the LAW WAS ENMITY. I don't understand how im saying this or that.

Romans 8 shows us the mind is against Yahweh's Law....

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

All I did was post some Scripture and ask if

1. All has been fulfilled.

2. Heaven and earth has passed.

3. All has been perfected.

Since the Messiah says these must be before anything in the Law is done away I thought this was pretty straight forward, seems I was wrong in thinking it is straight forward.
God concluded all under sin ....that could not be possible if there was no law...so the law is condemning the whole world in sin...Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them that believe in him...not just in the mind...but actually do his works(emulate him he did no sin) the scripture puts it as abide in him...so as long as you abide in him the law has no power over you....if for whatever reason you stop abiding in him(by sinning) ...the law is waiting to condemn you to death...
 
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ELECT

Guest
#60
God concluded all under sin ....that could not be possible if there was no law...so the law is condemning the whole world in sin...Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them that believe in him...not just in the mind...but actually do his works(emulate him he did no sin) the scripture puts it as abide in him...so as long as you abide in him the law has no power over you....if for whatever reason you stop abiding in him(by sinning) ...the law is waiting to condemn you to death...
If you are not in Christ then you are under law meaning the death penalty
If you in Christ then you are not under law that is no condemnation

It like a law abiding citizen who is not under law but a criminal is under the law