How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

[Radius]

(1 Cor 5:5)

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[SUP]a[/SUP] [SUP]b[/SUP] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

and some others:
Solomon ended his life as an idolator (1 Kings 11).

Many of the believers in Corinth, although five years old as Christians, were still carnal and fleshly—yet they are called babes in Christ (1 Cor 3:1-3).

A number of believers in Corinth were sick, and some had already died, as a result of their selfish and drunken disregard for the sacredness of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11:30

Demas, whom Paul at least twice referred to as his co-laborer in Christ's service (Col 4:14; Phlm 24), later is said by Paul to have "forsaken me, having loved this present world" (2 Tim 4:10).
Likewise James refers to the need to turn back fellow believers who have wandered from the truth Jas 5:19-20).

 

[Karol777]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

Just as the Jews would not call a man righteous until he died lest he sinned during his last breath... We have no idea what a man confesses during his last breath of life.

 

[john832]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

(1 Cor 5:5)

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[SUP]a[/SUP] [SUP]b[/SUP] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

The man repented...

2Co 2:1 But I determined this with myself, that I would not come again to you in heaviness.
2Co 2:2 For if I make you sorry, who is he then that maketh me glad, but the same which is made sorry by me?
2Co 2:3 And I wrote this same unto you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice; having confidence in you all, that my joy is the joy of you all.
2Co 2:4 For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.
2Co 2:5 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.
2Co 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. 2Co 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
2Co 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
2Co 2:9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
2Co 2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
2Co 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

And the church repented of accepting his sinful actions...

2Co 7:8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
2Co 7:12 Wherefore, though I wrote unto you, I did it not for his cause that had done the wrong, nor for his cause that suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear unto you.

So? Are we to condone sin or persevere to the end in resisting sin?

 

[Mitspa]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

It means not to turn back to the law of moses...."ye have fallen from grace"...you are cut-off from Christ who seek the be justified by the law..."the law is not of faith"


Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[john832]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

It means not to turn back to the law of moses...."ye have fallen from grace"...you are cut-off from Christ who seek the be justified by the law..."the law is not of faith"


Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So, someone breaks into your home tonight, has his way with your wife, steals all your stuff and kills you on the way out, what do we say? No Law, no sin? After all...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

 

[Mitspa]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

So, someone breaks into your home tonight, has his way with your wife, steals all your stuff and kills you on the way out, what do we say? No Law, no sin? After all...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

I would ask him if he grew up in a legalistic church...because the strength of sin is the law. Sure the law is not for the righteous...but for the sinner.

 

[john832]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

I would ask him if he grew up in a legalistic church...because the strength of sin is the law. Sure the law is not for the righteous...but for the sinner.

You wouldn't be asking him anything, your next of kin maybe, but not you.

 

[ISeeYou]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

John832 is correct the man repented, and he gives space to repent. He is not willling that any should perish but that all come to repentance.

 

[Mitspa]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

You wouldn't be asking him anything, your next of kin maybe, but not you.

Don't get personal...John and the strength of sin is the law....no reason some many legalist turn out to be criminals

 

[Mitspa]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

John832 is correct the man repented, and he gives space to repent. He is not willling that any should perish but that all come to repentance.

Repent from unbelief and dead works....hypocrisy....into the truth of grace.

 

[Kaycie]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

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2 Corinthians 7:8,9,10...
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[TD]"Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it--I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while-
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[TD]yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.
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[TD]Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death."

Handing this man over to Satan, to be dealt with harshly will make him want to come back. And by doing this process, the result will be saving your brother, otherwise he will continue in his sin and go hell.


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[ISeeYou]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

Repent from unbelief and dead works....hypocrisy....into the truth of grace.

Herod had his brothers wife, and John called him out on it, and that got John thrown into prison for adressing his sin, even as the grace of God teaches us to deny worldly and ungodly lusts.

He wrote to them prior then this first letter adressing fornication, and in this other he says here

1 Cr 5:1 It is reported commonlythat there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

And so instead of mourning over the mans sin they were proud, he is training them on how to respond to put such away from them,

But even here (and this is after they were attempting to yolk the disciples with the law) it says here in their beginnings, this and this by the Holy Ghost (and them)

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Just highlighting the fornication part since that is the context

Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Which is again adressed in the context of the law here also where they say

Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe,we have written and concluded that they observe *no such thing*, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

So again, warning two is really here

1 Cr 5:1 It is reported commonlythat there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

And in what is understood to be letter 2 being unrepentant here is in respects to what he calls sin.

2 Cr 12:22 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail manywhich have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

There were others not repenting, why would he bewail such a thing if this was not too serious a matter, when we find that it seemed more of the most necessary things though?

He called it sin for them is all.

 

[dcontroversal]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

They explain them AWAY in an attempt to teach a works based salvation while failing to understand salvation and justification are based upon the PERFECT FAITH OF CHRIST......!

 

[Radius]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

They explain them AWAY in an attempt to teach a works based salvation while failing to understand salvation and justification are based upon the PERFECT FAITH OF CHRIST......!

amen brother.

and what makes me particularly upset is that just because we believe in the perfect faith in Christ for salvation, those works based people automatically think that we are some lascivious, debauched sinners looking for as much excess in sin as possible because hey, we have the saving faith, it doesn't matter!

It DOES MATTER!

If anything, because of this freedom in Grace, I try extra hard not to sin. I don't want to take advantage of God's grace.

 

[vic1980]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

2 Timothy 4:7-8

I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

This sounds like GREAT news

 

[ISeeYou]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

Heres the crown and faithfulness here

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Heres the same crown given to those who endureth temptation

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Heres the crown of righteousness after finishing ones course (and fighting the good fight of faith)

2Titus 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

And heres where he speaks of "holding fast" to what you have and letting no man take thatcrown

Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

 

[JGIG]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

Just as the Jews would not call a man righteous until he died lest he sinned during his last breath... We have no idea what a man confesses during his last breath of life.

Really?

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. (from Luke 1)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (from 2 Cor. 5)​

-JGIG

 

[Eva1218]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

Just as Paul stated in Romans 7:15-25 there is a battle within the fight of the spiritman and the flesh. Though we battle for the spirit to overcome the flesh and for the flesh to die daily we will still do things that GOD does not like therefore GOD provided a way for us which is to Repent. Now understand that our thoughts are just as wicked as actions though satan has got a hold of the flesh GOD will hold on to the spirit. The LOVE GOD has for us even in our worst of times HE got us. Now we are not to use this as a way to sin but a way in which we know GOD is for us :")

Blessings!!!!!!!

 

[john832]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

Don't get personal...John and the strength of sin is the law....no reason some many legalist turn out to be criminals

So, if we look at a practical application of your fallacious belief, that is prohibited? Sounds about right. The Christianity I believe is one that is practical and must be lived every day. Yours apparently, is some esoteric thought that has no practical application in everyday life.

 

[Radius]

Re: How do the "Perservering to the end to be saved" crowd Explain This Verse?

Just as Paul stated in Romans 7:15-25 there is a battle within the fight of the spiritman and the flesh. Though we battle for the spirit to overcome the flesh and for the flesh to die daily we will still do things that GOD does not like therefore GOD provided a way for us which is to Repent. Now understand that our thoughts are just as wicked as actions though satan has got a hold of the flesh GOD will hold on to the spirit. The LOVE GOD has for us even in our worst of times HE got us. Now we are not to use this as a way to sin but a way in which we know GOD is for us :")

Blessings!!!!!!!

nice post.

and I am wondering why "ELECT" and the other "persevering to the end in order to be saved" posters have avoided this thread?